Front Sight Alaska--A Joke

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Thanks Spiff! Glad to see it wasn't just my personal hygiene problems.

If a church or whatever wants to build a double top secret compound up here, more power to them. I'm building one myself. I just get mad when they advertise as though they actually had a real training camp here, when in reality it's nothing of the kind.
 
There were some links that take you to frontsite/nevada. Maybe you could join the Nevada group Cosmoline, since you're from Alaska. Then you could maybe transfer your membership. :D
RT
 
Where do you begin with some of this crap ???

First of all, I love the use of the word compound. This is normally a word used by the liberal news media to describe anyone's home that owns a gun. I see now that gun owners are using the same term to describe other gun owners when they are attempting to say something dramatic.

"they have a gated community.........compound".
I haven't been there for over a year, but the last time I was there, this was not true. If your friend was there last year, I know he was mistaken. They are planning on having a gated community but that phase of construction wasn't even started the last time I was there.

"they encouraged him to move his family into the compound."
I am sure they did. As I recall, the lots were for the ...................... compound started somewhere in the range of 1/2 million dollars. Who knows, maybe a groundskeeper makes that kind of money ? They knew what they were paying him; right ? In any case, call Frontsight Nevada and tell them you are inquiring about a residential lot and see what they cost. Wait, make sure you tell them you want one in the compound.

"they would not allow him to be armed until he took some of their courses "
So your buddy applied for a job as groundskeeper, and balked at the idea that he should be trained if he wanted to do armed security. Ok.
I have to agree that making him pay for the class is pretty lame. I know this is true because their instructors have to pay for classes also. I know they get continuing education, but if they want to just take a class for fun, they have to pay for it.

What this so called compound actually is going to be is a town made up entirely of gun owners. Actually, not just gun owners, but gun owners who also dig taking classes as well as owning guns. This community is extremly high end and expensive. When you buy the lot you are actually buying their Platnum membership which entitles you to take any Frontsight course and any Frontsight course that will ever be offered as many times as you want. To give you an idea of what this membership costs, one of the details is that you can pass the membership upon your death in your will. The membership also includes a lot in the community. So, this "compound" will be inhabited by very well off professional people.

spacemanspiff: the information you posted was what I was going to post earlier but I decided it was a waste of time: the truth isn't nearly as poplular on TFL as BS. I am a Frontsight member and was offered a membership to Frontsight Alaska but didn't take advantage of it. So, yes I have actually been to Frontsight: wow, that is unheard of on this board to actually know what you are talking about.
 
I am a Frontsight member and was offered a membership to Frontsight Alaska but didn't take advantage of it.

Ah good. Then perhaps you can explain this policy of setting up a training camp here, then telling any actual, real live Alaskans who happen to call about attending to ****. It seems like an odd business plan to me. Very odd.
 
I honestly don't remember the details. This may not be true, this was a couple years ago and I wasn't really interested when they were talking about it. But the post made by spacemanspiff is what I remember them saying. It was an addional facility for the people who were already members of Frontsight Nevada. No one said that Alaska residents weren't eligble for membership, I am sure there are residents of Alaska that are members.
Becoming a member is touched upon on their website here: http://www.frontsight.com/memberships.asp
This is one of their memberships. They have something like a half dozen. The one on the link above is about middle of the road. Frontsight Alaska is a fee in addition to the price for that membership. When this idea was first proposed I think the fee for Frontsight Alaska was around two grand over and above the cost of your membership for Frontsight Nevada: I am sure it has gone up many fold since then.

Something that I find interesting. You mentioned that they don't advertise in ANY gunshops. As far as I know, they don't advertise at all. The only advertisement I have ever seen for them was a billboard right near their Nevada facility. Never the less, they claim to have more students annually than all other firearms training schools in the US combined. I have very little doubt this is true. I have taken five classes there over a period of several years and every time I was there, there were several hundred students taking a class at that time (not all the same class I was: this number of people was everyone taking any class at the facility when I was there. ). When I was at Gunsite (four times) they might have had 30 students there. When I took the basic pistol class at Frontsight, there was easily over 50 persons in my class with an instructor for every 4-5 students I might add before someone starts on that subject.
They have used two avenues to recruit students: word of mouth and free Uzi classes.

"look at their testimonial page. the comments sound very canned"
I don't think so. When I read through those a few years ago, I was surprised to find that I actually knew a couple of those people just from living in this area. For example, one of the women who's testimonial appears on that page rode along with me when she was taking her EMT class. At the time, I hadn't been to Frontsight but I remember that I was reading a gun magazine and she struck up a conversation with me about guns. She mentioned that she had a CCW and carried a full sized 1911. She also mentioned that she had been to Frontsight and spoke very highly of it. By the way, even though this was about three years ago, I remember her because she was very good looking and had blond hair down to her waist.
Based on those few people who were quoted that I actually know, I doubt that any of it was canned.
After you finish a class there, you fill out an evaluation form: I am sure that is where those testimonials come from.
I know that after I took my basic handgun class there, I praised them up and down.
Edit: I went and actually read that page again. As someone who has actually taken multiple classes there, I can't say I disagree with anything said. If someone I cared about wanted to take a basic handgun class, Frontsight would be my first recomendation. That is my honest opinion of how impressed I was with that class. The rifle class was so-so, but that handgun class is terrific. Out of those testimonials I have actually met six of those people. Three of them were people I took classes with there. Two of them were guys that I used to work with when we all worked for a private ambulance company in Las Vegas: they are both now local area firefighters as am I. The last person is the girl I already mentioned above.
 
I asked the fellow on the phone if I could get a membership for FSA, but he said no way and all but hung up the phone on me! From what you say, it appears the FSA membership is a bonus apparently only offered to the select few, which I assume would include longtime members, employees and families. What I find deceptive about it is the website, which says nothing about being restricted:

http://www.frontsight.com/alaska/

The whole thing seems strange. There are half a million people here, and many times that number in tourists every season. Why not set up FSA with the same rules as the Nevada one? Indeed from the website that's exactly what it sounds like:

"How Does Front Sight Alaska Differ From Front Sight Nevada?
Both Front Sight Alaska and Front Sight Nevada share common themes; world-class training, the best staff in the industry, and flawless service. Both facilities are owned, managed, and operated by the same individuals so quality and consistency are absolutely guaranteed. Our Alaska and Nevada facilities compliment each other well. During the summer months, come to Front Sight Alaska for first-rate training and unbelievable recreation. During the rest of the year come to Front Sight Nevada for world-class training as well as city life, opulent hotels, world-renowned dining, and million-dollar stage shows."

Alaska probably has the most concentrated ownership of firearms this side of Yemen, yet in all of South Central there are only two ranges (not counting the military's range). The little state F&G Rabbit Creek range is tiny and has only a single 100 yard rifle range. The Birchwood range is a lot bigger, but even it can't boast the sort of dynamic shooting environments that a major shooting resort can. You're still limited to traditional range shooting there. There are some courses, but nothing as intense as a Thunder Ranch or Frontsight course. Why go to the considerable expense of setting up a shooting resort here, then tell anyone who calls it's for members only, and no they can't get in with a regular membership?
 
You know, now that I am thinking about this, I remembered that when I was at Gunsite they had private homes there. Of course Jeff Cooper lives there as well as the current owner and I am pretty sure the operations manager also lives there. I know that one of the instructors I had mentioned that he had been offered the opportunity to live there.

Is that a compound also ?
I am not sure of the correct definition of the word compound.


Just as a guess, I think that they want to keep the classes small (limited number of instructors available) and the season there is short. So, they probably already have enough people to fill all the classes they offer. They don't have the facility or the instructors to offer more classes.
Again, I think that is the reason, but I can't swear to it.
Frontsight Nevada is a long term project with very lofty goals. In the several years they have been here they have only touched the tip of the iceberg of what they want to eventually do. I am sure that Frontsight Alaska will be the same way only it just got started.
If you buy into the sales pitch, they are paying for all this out of pocket. They are not financing any of it. So, this stuff is going to take time and a lot of money.
 
I see nothing wrong with the word "compound." I'm building one myself. To me it just means a place with a fence and multiple buildings that will be a good place to hunker down when the zombies rise. It should also have a little hut with a shortwave radio and assorted communication equipment, it's own power supply, and provisions.

Just as a guess, I think that they want to keep the classes small (limited number of instructors available) and the season there is short. So, they probably already have enough people to fill all the classes they offer. They don't have the facility or the instructors to offer more classes.

That may well be the case. But if so why don't they just say that on their website? It doesn't do any good for their image to put locals through rude telephone conversations. And while we may be unwashed--they ARE operating on our turf and the active shooting community here draws a lot more water than in most states. In fact it includes the lion's share of the state legislature.
 
Ok, that is your definition of the word.

I personally have a hard time describing a gated community with multimillion dollar private homes inhabited by extremly successful people (the lots are something like 500k-that is just for a bare piece of desert with no house and no utilities), schools, stores, parks etc: a compound just because the owners own guns.

But, I also live in a gated community. My house is more modest but I do have guns.
I am sure the media would call it a compound.
 
Though I'm all for folks having fredom of religion, I get leery when we talk about gated communities based upon religion. Tolerance goes both ways if you ask me. I'm more than happy to be tolerant of another individual's beliefs and religion save where it in any way endangers or discriminates against others. Allow me an example..

Lets say the Pink pistols, started a training school. Great, wonderful. However, if we begin to talk about "gay only!" gated communities. I begin to worry, same for "Gay only" arms training schools.

Now if we inserted Race, the ACLU would explode.
 
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Ok, where in the hell did anyone say ANYTHING about a gated communities based upon religion ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Just curious.



Why is it anyone elses' business if someone wants to start a gay only firearms training faciltiy ? Why is it anyone elses business if someone wants to start a gay community ?
Who are you to tell them what they can or can't do with their own property ?
Why do you feel that you have some right to demand to be trained at a private facility where you are not welcome ?

I bet any housing development in Las Vegas where the houses cost over 300k is gated.
So What ?
 
Okay 444....lemme guess.....

You work at FrontSight or something?

Are you actually Ignatius Piazza?

Just curious, as you seem all worked up over this.

I must say I find it curious that such a facility would open up in Alaska and apparently not welcome any inquiries into attending it.

I find it curious that one apparently has to belong to the super-secret Front Sight cool-kids club to go to Front Sight Alaska, and apparently folks who actually live in Alaska aren't welcome.

Call me crazy, but that just sounds downright weird.

hillbilly
 
Not just weird, it's bad for business. Telling me to take a hike might not have many ramifications. But I know some very active shooters here who, if put through the telephone call I went through, could make serious trouble for the resort. It would be better for the facility to either be open and up-front about being a closed facility or open itself up. But pretending to be open, then claiming to be closed to all but an elite, is going to make people mad. It made me mad.
 
And if you find it weird, that makes it bad ?


You will notice that I get worked up over a number of topics on this board. They all have one thing in common. Most of the comments are posted by people with no first hand experience with the subject being discussed. Instead they speculate, guess, and pass on rumors. I think this is a shame. But, the biggest shame of it all is the human trait of automatically buying into the speculation and rumor and ignoring the people with actual first hand experience because it doesn't sound as good as the rumors.
Check out one of the many threads about Wolf ammo. Another subject I usually weigh in on. I have fired well over 10 thousand rounds of wolf ammo in .223 out of AR15s. When I read the BS written by people who have never fired a single round of it, I get frustrated. This subject is no different. These people have never set foot on the property. They have never taken a class there. Yet they post BS about religion, scams, tax evasion etc. And they don't know anything about it at all. But, in the next thread on the subject, these same rumors will be repeated again by someone who read this thread.

No, I work full time as a firefighter/paramedic in Las Vegas. I have worked as a full time paramedic since 1984.



Please show me where they claimed to be an "open facility". Did they contact you and turn you down or did you contact them ? Where does it say that Alaska residents arn't welcome ?
See, this is the BS I am talking about.
 
This thread was started by a person (me) who wanted to have first-hand experiences, specifically with the 2-day handgun course, but was told to take a hike. I have to say that's the first time I've been told to take my money elsewhere, so it threw me for a loop. But at this point I'm going to take them up on their offer and seek my training elsewhere.
 
"I find it curious that one apparently has to belong to the super-secret Front Sight cool-kids club to go to Front Sight Alaska, and apparently folks who actually live in Alaska aren't welcome."

Why would I get upset about this ?
Everything in this sentence is BS.
There is nothing secret about joining Frontsight. I posted the link already. Nowhere does it say Alaska residents arn't welcome.
Yet this stuff is posted and read by hundreds, if not thousands.
 
444........I'm not talking about Wolf ammo here.

I'm talking about Front Sight running a firearms training site in Alaska but apparently going out of their way to turn away potential customers who are interested in taking classes at that Alaskan facility.

I teach handgun courses myself.

I've been doing it for over two years now.

I don't know about Front Site, but I make it my policy to tell as many people as I can about my CCW classes, and be very polite to any and all potential customers, because I have discovered that being polite increases the chances those folks spend actual money to take my classes.

Unlike Front Sight Alaska, I actually want folks to come to my classes. I don't require folks to be part of some sort of elite group before they take my classes. All I ask is that they be at least 21 years old, and able to legally own a firearm, and that's only for the CCW courses. I'll teach folks under 21 other courses, if they so desire.

If Front Sight wants to advertise all these super-cool courses at their Alaska facility, only to turn away potential customers, that's their choice.

It just doesn't make any sense to me, and I wonder why Front Sight would go to all the cost and expense of setting up such a facility, and then turn away customers.

So far, nobody has offered a reason that makes any actual, real-world sense as to why.

So, 444, why do you think Front Sight would go to the trouble of setting up "Front Sight Alaska" with all these cool-sounding courses, with a website that advertises these courses, and actually invites people to come to the facility and take the courses, only to be rude to potential customers, and apparently only accept the business of folks who apparently belong to some sort of Front Sight "cool kids club?"

hillbilly
 
Nah...if 444 was Piazza, he would have threatened to sue us all by now for slander. Seems to be his standard MO that can be attested to by a friend of mine. Think we found a sore spot for 444. Sorry. Geez, we'll move along and find something else to talk about.

Greg
 
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