Full auto conversion

[oh blanky]

Tell it to the ATF agents that knock on your door.

You guys are playing with fire.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Wow, Oh Blanky, you actually believe that...Just wow!

Playing with fire can be fun too. Super soaker+ gasoline + oh, never mind, then the thought police will get me for conspiracy to commit arson...You live your life in fear, and I will live mine in AMERICA, where ideas are not inherently evil, but can be once ACTED UPON...

 

[pete f]

all depends on the design. I have witnesses a few 1911's going full auto with too light trigger pulls. action slamming shut is enough to trip the sear and full auto it goes. really fun if you are expecting it with a couple or so rounds in the mag. cyclic has to be up near 1100 rpm. just a stutter.

I also know how to make a very popular 22 go full auto too. was shown by a smith who did it accidentally. a very slight mis-assembly of the trigger group will cause it. the disconector turn upside down acts as a trip. viola full auto .22. I no longer have one the these rifles, temptation is too great for me....... ten or fifteen .22's per second makes a fun toy but illegal too....and I hate the Iron Hotel.

Used to be if you bought four or five of the M1 carbine imports you would end up with enough M2 parts to make a real one of those. darn the good old days....even had one with the receiver stamped M2 that came from Century many years ago.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Full auto conversion ??

Yes, with a little knowledge and not much more than the tools found in the average garage a full auto can even be built from scratch.
The hardest part to build would be good reliable magazines.

 

[oh blanky]

Playing with fire can be fun too. Super soaker+ gasoline + oh, never mind, then the thought police will get me for conspiracy to commit arson...You live your life in fear, and I will live mine in AMERICA, where ideas are not inherently evil, but can be once ACTED UPON...

I don't live in fear, sometimes I just have urges to help the stupid.

It seems to get me nowhere.

 

[1911 guy]

Parts, pieces and jail

If you hang out at gun shows you'll come across M-16 hammers and sears. Then you'll find out they don't work with AR-15 bolt carriers, so you find one of those and can't resist the urge to play with it. So you play, the novelty wears off in about 2 magazines, but you've been reported by the old lady a half mile away and get to spend the next ten years in the joint. No thanks, auto fire is over rated anyway.

 

[Father Knows Best]

So you play, the novelty wears off in about 2 magazines, but you've been reported by the old lady a half mile away and get to spend the next ten years in the joint. No thanks, auto fire is over rated anyway.

So true. My brother is an LEO and SWAT team member. When he visited my father in Michigan a few years back, he brought his SWAT-issue G36 and a couple thousand rounds of ammo. We met up with a friend of my dad's who lives way out in the country -- literally at least a mile to the nearest neighbor. We proceeded to make nice piles of empty brass. Within an hour, a cruiser appeared on the two-rut logging track leading to our shooting spot out in the woods. You guessed it -- some neighbor had called the police to report the distant sound of automatic weapons fire. She thought the Michigan Militia was training out there, apparently.

The officer who showed up was quite nice, to his credit. We gave him props for having the cajones to investigate on his own, and for not overreacting. After showing some ID and having a nice conversation, we let him rip off a few mags, but he still asked us politely to shut it down because we were making the sheeple nervous, and the Sheriff wouldn't be happy with us if it continued.

 

[1911JMB]

It seems to me, if you're going to make an illegal full auto, you may as well also illegally integrally supress it. As I understand it, 1927 thompsons are rather easy to convert if you know how. Then, you could drill holes in the silly 16" barrel and make a simplified MP5 SD system. That would take care of the noise thing.

An interesting idea that the ATF recently banned is too tie a string to the cocking knob of a semi auto rifle, then loop it around the pistol grip and wrap it around the trigger. When you pull on the string it will fire full auto until you stop pulling the string, because the motion of the bolt will pull the trigger for you.

Please keep in mind I am not recomending any of this. What I do recomend is persistant harrasment of your senators.

 

[mcosman]

I would never temp fate on this. I got my entire shooting party surrounded, disarmed at gunpiont and searched. all because I was able to pull the trigger fast enough to make it sound like a full auto. WE were out shooting far away from anything and I did the rapid fire as an example of how you could never hit anything and some distant ranger heard it for himself. No one called it in he heard it. He called for backup and 30 min. later we had guns pointed at us. They were convinced we had modified our weapons to full auto, now that I have been shaken down without breaking the law I get an idea of how I will be treated if I should break the law. It was interesting to watch the officers realize that not only were we perfectly legal. We collectivley had more weapons and training, that resulted in a lecture.... the last resort of an officer with no ticket to write. I smiled big that day.

 

[Red Tornado]

I thought the easiest way was a drop of metal glue on the firing pin of your SKS. Apparently some even come this way.
RT

 

[Azrael256]

You don't even need glue for that. A little fouling, or installing the pin wrong will take care of it. I'm a real big fan of those spring-loaded firing pins for just that reason.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

To Unarmed Shooter:

The Charleton (check spelling) was a machinegun built around
a bolt action Lee-Enfield, adding a gas piston and bolt carrier,
with a pistol grip added behind the trigger guard. I'm sure the
conversion is more detailed than I described, but they made a
significant number of them. I believe they used Bren magazines
(they had more Bren magazines than they had Bren guns).
They were desperate, facing a possible Japanese invasion.

Conceivably, someone could make a machinegun around a single
barrel hinge action shotgun with enough effort, but ATF is usually
only concerned with EASY conversions.

THIS INFORMATION FOR HISTORICAL EDUCATION PURPOSES ONLY.

 

[1911JMB]

I thought the easiest way was a drop of metal glue on the firing pin of your SKS. Apparently some even come this way.
RT

You don't even need glue for that. A little fouling, or installing the pin wrong will take care of it. I'm a real big fan of those spring-loaded firing pins for just that reason.

Please explain. I don't know much about the SKS system, but it seems to me that shouldn't be possible if SKS's have disconnectors. It also seems to me that the ATF would be all over SKS's like they were open bolt MAC's if they are this easily converted. Not that I doubt your info, I would just like a further explanation.

 

[Kaylee]

Please explain. I don't know much about the SKS system, but it seems to me that shouldn't be possible if SKS's have disconnectors.

SKS's with cosmoline-encrusted firing pins are notorious for slam-firing. The disconnector doesn't matter, as the hammer position is immaterial -- the rifle becomes in effect a fixed-firing pin open-bolt weapon. Of course, since the hammer/trigger postion don't matter, it'll just keep running till it jams or empties the mag.

Double-plus ungood. There's a couple folks who dropped their rifle in shock at it going FA on 'em, and ending up perforated by their own gun.

SO.. to the newbies lurking out there... make VERY certain your firing pin is loose in the block, and ALWAYS test the rifle first with one or two rounds in the mag before loading it up full when trying it out the first time.

-K

 

[Father Knows Best]

SKS's with cosmoline-encrusted firing pins are notorious for slam-firing. The disconnector doesn't matter, as the hammer position is immaterial -- the rifle becomes in effect a fixed-firing pin open-bolt weapon. Of course, since the hammer/trigger postion don't matter, it'll just keep running till it jams or empties the mag. -K

And of course, this problem isn't unique to the SKS. It has been known to happen to other self-loaders (semi-autos) with floating firing pins, and almost any self-loader can be intentionally made to behave this way by welding, glueing or otherwise jamming the firing pin in place. The SKS is most notorious for the problem in part because SKS's are so cheap and plentiful, and in part because they sometimes come "out of the box" with jammed firing pins thanks to rust or cosmo in the bolt after sitting in storage in some combloc warehouse for 40 odd years.

 

[molonlabe]

Double post

 

[molonlabe]

This is illigal by ATF rules The shostring gun.

http://www.jpfo.org/shoestring.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stringtrick1ev.jpg

 

[Red Tornado]

So THAT's how the shoestring gun works. I'd read about it, but couldnt' quite picture it. Thanks for the pic, molonlabe.
RT

 

[nfl1990]

With a good machine shop, vertical mill, lathe, drill press etc...and knowledge to use the stuff. It would be possible to turn your Kirby vacuum cleaner into a fully automatic rifle.

Are full auto vacuum cleaners leagal?

 

[twoblink]

First, I hope I didn't come off as advocating gun modifications by someone who has no clue, and definitely not modifications of a semi-auto to a full auto.

If you slap the bolt backwards on an SKS, I think it can go full auto.

Read the manuals, obey all laws, don't mess with parts that you don't understand!!

 

[michakav]

SKS's with cosmoline-encrusted firing pins are notorious for slam-firing. The disconnector doesn't matter, as the hammer position is immaterial -- the rifle becomes in effect a fixed-firing pin open-bolt weapon. Of course, since the hammer/trigger postion don't matter, it'll just keep running till it jams or empties the mag.

Double-plus ungood. There's a couple folks who dropped their rifle in shock at it going FA on 'em, and ending up perforated by their own gun.

SO.. to the newbies lurking out there... make VERY certain your firing pin is loose in the block, and ALWAYS test the rifle first with one or two rounds in the mag before loading it up full when trying it out the first time.

-K

Actually, an SKS with a perfectly clean firing pin and channel can go full auto. It happens because of the funnel shaped pin channel, along with the funnel shaped firing pin. When you put these together they create a wedge which inherently wants to stay together. There was one country (Russian maybe) that had a spring on the firing pin to help it return. All others are free floating and have the capacity to slam fire any time.

 

[Zrex]

Fundamental rules for full-auto:
1) If you miss with the first shot, you will miss with the next also.
2) If you hit with the first shot, you will miss with the next.
3) Turns money into noise.

Never been to a subgun match have you? All it takes is practice.

 

[1911 guy]

never been to SMG match, but...

In the navy we didn't get issued SAW's (M249), so we get M-16's that are FA, not 3 round burst. Having spent some time behind those, unless you're using a pistol caliber in a heavy weapon, it's not practical except for suppressive fire in the general direction of the enemy. And if you have a heavy weapon, why is it chambered for a pistol caliber? I prefer handy sidearms and accurate rifles, not mediocre rifles chambered in a round I can have on tap in a much smaller package. I won't say it's not fun for a minute, but the novelty wears off and your wallet gets thin.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Trial and can cost you a lot of money. Life isn't simple and neither is making and having an illegal fully auto around. It'l just make you too paranoid. .
Honestly though Get a Class-3 license or join the military and in a few short years it turns into the samo samo.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

In the navy we didn't get issued SAW's (M249), so we get M-16's that are FA, not 3 round burst. Having spent some time behind those, unless you're using a pistol caliber in a heavy weapon, it's not practical except for suppressive fire in the general direction of the enemy. And if you have a heavy weapon, why is it chambered for a pistol caliber? I prefer handy sidearms and accurate rifles, not mediocre rifles chambered in a round I can have on tap in a much smaller package. I won't say it's not fun for a minute, but the novelty wears off and your wallet gets thin.

I don't think I'd call my SWD M11/9 SMG a "heavy" weapon. (On a Form 4, $200 tax stamp and all, nice and legal -- any other way is begging for major trouble!!!) There are pistols bigger than many subguns.

Subguns are tactically similar to shotguns. They are good when you want firepower without the penetration of rifle cartridges. VIP protection. House clearing. Close quarters. Supposedly useless and outdated (and detested by those who think an '03-A3 and .45 are advanced enough, thank you very much) they refuse to die. Cops, feds, special ops, security folks, they all swear by them. Note: I would not use a SMG for self defense in today's legal climate, unless professionally employed to do so!

Think of the pilot with the MP5 in "Blackhawk Down". Would he have rather had an old 7 shot .45? For some reason I don't think so. I'm sorry but I just can't believe that every cop, fed, secret service, and spec op with a subgun is stupid and missing the point.

Machine guns? (belt feds) Suppresive fire, yes, but also good for taking out vehicles. Plus, for some reason, I don't think the German MG42 gunners in Normandy where thinking "oh man, ja, I could do this with my 98K".

Automatic rifles? Good for making a lot of noise by the ill-trained. Seems like the good guys are using them in semi-auto under combat conditions.

And like everyone here has said -- if you want to shoot full-auto -- go the legal route. Spend the big bucks, or go to a range and rent one. Plenty of places you can do that. There's one range that has a rental Uzi that has fired over a million rounds.

If you are interested in the academic "how do they work" go to the frigging library. Or go to a surplus store and for $5 buy a military M16 manual, they all show how the little internals do their things.

DO NOT touch, think about, hint, scheme, whatever illegal full-auto. It ain't worth it.