Full electronic 4473 didn't go so well.

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PzGren said:
ATF Form 4473 has to be retained for at least 20 years by the licensed dealer. Electronic copies of 4473 and of the bound book could become a great and easy source to build a national database. Traditional bound books and 4473 would need to be entered manually into any database and it would take decades to do so at the working speed of the agency:).
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Actually, I believe a paper text document can be optically scanned and instantly converted into an electronic PDF document, which is searchable, and wouldn't take much to index by name or any other data item in it. Manual data copy isn't necessary any more. Therefore Bound Books can be copied and converted almost as fast as one can turn the pages, and the same with 4473's.
 
wiscoaster said:
Actually, I believe a paper text document can be optically scanned and instantly converted into an electronic PDF document, which is searchable, and wouldn't take much to index by name or any other data item in it. Manual data copy isn't necessary any more. Therefore Bound Books can be copied and converted almost as fast as one can turn the pages, and the same with 4473's.
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How about paper Form 4's? Asking for a friend.:rofl:

Seriously, ATF technology and processes are leading edge for 1998.
 
wiscoaster said:
Actually, I believe a paper text document can be optically scanned and instantly converted into an electronic PDF document, which is searchable, and wouldn't take much to index by name or any other data item in it. Manual data copy isn't necessary any more. Therefore Bound Books can be copied and converted almost as fast as one can turn the pages, and the same with 4473's.
Click to expand...

There is technology to read handwritten texts and it is as accurate as the translation programs. Speaking more languages than I have fingers on one hand, I often get a good laugh out of the translation programs.

Trying to read my notes, will be a challenge for any computer program or even a live person but I can decipher them easily.
 
Optical Character Recognition is a very real and powerful tool. The US Postal Service uses it to read the hand written addresses on your mail, and has very few mistakes per million opportunities. I used it at work a few years ago to scan 4 file cabinets worth of data (around 50 years worth) in a little over a week. That data was then indexed for searching, even though the ink was faded and the handwriting was FAR from perfect.

I am not worried about an electronic copy vs. paper copy 4473 and the government creating a database. If it gets to that point we have already lost.
 
I bought a lower receiver from a LGS. They had the electronic form. Filled it out handed it over and all info was lost. Filled it out again handed the computer back and he somehow cleared it again.
I told him this was the last time I'd fill out the form. If lost again it wasn't meant to be.

I hate bg checks. After about 30 times you should go on a special list....no not that one...more like a back ground check express lane. LOL.

( for the guy going to cry about the special list its a joke....humor...ya know funny haha)
 
Caplock said:
I bought a lower receiver from a LGS. They had the electronic form. Filled it out handed it over and all info was lost. Filled it out again handed the computer back and he somehow cleared it again.
I told him this was the last time I'd fill out the form. If lost again it wasn't meant to be.

I hate bg checks. After about 30 times you should go on a special list....no not that one...more like a back ground check express lane. LOL.

( for the guy going to cry about the special list its a joke....humor...ya know funny haha)
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What's funny is every time I do a background check through our business I get cleared literally instantly, but if I'm at a LGS it takes like 5 minutes to go through... We use NICS/FBI so that could have something to do with it. Idk what the LGSs' use...
 
Caplock said:
I bought a lower receiver from a LGS. They had the electronic form. Filled it out handed it over and all info was lost. Filled it out again handed the computer back and he somehow cleared it again.
I told him this was the last time I'd fill out the form. If lost again it wasn't meant to be.

I hate bg checks. After about 30 times you should go on a special list....no not that one...more like a back ground check express lane. LOL.

( for the guy going to cry about the special list its a joke....humor...ya know funny haha)
Click to expand...
As was mentioned earlier, here in Texas if you have a concealed carry permit you have to fill out the 4473 but they don't have to do the background check. So even though we now have constitutional carry I still recommend folks get their CCW. At the LGS my Dad frequents, they charge him less for transfers as well, since no need to do the background check. It also doesn't hurt they get a little formal training along with the CCW class.

There's a conspiracy theory floating around that if you have a CCW it will lessen the waiting time for Form 1 items, but I haven't found that to be the case. My Dad has a CCW, was in the Navy, but he always has to wait longer than me with no CCW, Army vet and former Social Security and General Dynamics employee. Who knows the mojo of the Form 1 formula...
 
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Once upon a time I bought a gun at Walmart (597 .22 mag) . I filled out the E 4473 and when the sporting goods manager pushed the send button approved immediately popped up on the screen. The manager exclaimed "I have have never seen one approved that fast"

I said that was because they know I need a gun right now. The manager looked at me funny and out the door I went with manager in tow.
 
I did my first electronic transfer just this year. I thought it went pretty smoothly. Is it going into a National Data Base? Who knows?
 
There's a lot of terms being tossed around in this thread that are inaccurate or misleading.
There is no such animal as an "electronic transfer". A transfer is an action, performed in person.....its not a form. It's where after the buyer/transferee has completed his 4473, the dealer has performed the requirements of the Brady Law, the dealer hands the firearm to the buyer.

eForm 4473 is form filling software download that ATF makes available for FFL's. It resides on the dealers computer and has no "connectivity" with the ATF/FBI/CIA/Trilateral Commission, etc. It allows the buyer transferee to use a tablet/phone/desktop or laptop to complete and sign the form.

There is no single "electronic system" either........there are several and none are operated by the ATF or FBI.
Some gun stores buy third party software that may integrate form filling software that mimics the ATF eForm 4473 and also updates the dealer bound book (Record of Acquisitions & Disposition) at the same time. Depending on the software vendor it may automate several functions including performing an FBI NICS background check.....so it would transmit certain information to the FBI. Some of these software programs may also connect with state POC's in those states where dealers do not contact the FBI for a background check.

The only information transmitted to the FBI for a background check is the buyer/transferees descriptive information: name, state of residence, place of birth, height, weight, sex, birth date, social security number, UPIN, ethnicity, race, if an alien their # and country of citizenship. The only information given to the FBI regarding the firearm is the type: Handgun, Long Gun or Other firearm. The FBI doesn't get the buyers address, doesn't get told whether the handgun is a pistol or revolver or whether the long gun is a rifle or shotgun and doesn't get any serial#, model name or even the caliber.
 
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Took a friend to Cabela's today. His first NICS check. Took about 15 to 20 min. He came away with a gun and I came away with some .357 Hornady XTP bullets. The 4473 forms are on small tablets.

Life is good...
Ron
 
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