G3 in current use

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DocRock

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I feel sorry for poor Ian. The hate mail he will be getting from the FALboys will be pretty awful; all that chippy rationalizing as to why the FAL is still so much better. :)

I'm not sure that I agree with all Ian's takes on the issue and believe that frugality may play at least as much of a role as concern about body armor in the continued use of the G3 in Norway, Sweden, and Portugal, three of the countries where the G3 remains in use (although among these three only by forntline troops in Portugal). Not sure what other countries continue to use the G3. As to the multiplicity of reasons for its superior "modernization" qualities, again, I am not certain I can agree that any but relative ease of adopting modern optics is a driving factor.

I do like the SPUHR stock on the Swede.

 
DocRock: Thanks.
Very cool guns; both types. A guy from Germany (who had served in the Bundeswehr) let me try his true German G3 at a rural private club, not too far from Starkville MS. It had all three markings for the fire selector.
The fact that they use "F" (freedom/Freiheit) for "select-fire" is quite cool.

Just a reminder that Ian has more than a few of his superb gun shows on Amazon Prime.
 
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It's my theory that countries that went with FALs spend more on their military, at least until the mid 1990s. So they replaced their service rifles sooner, and countries that went with the H&K spent less so they kept their rifles for a far longer time. That's why more countries have the G3 in their inventories today.
 
you see quite a few in videos from Mexico. I really like the rifle. I think I could dig it more if it were a half pound lighter, optic on board. Also scaled down to something like 6.8 SPC.
 
The G3 is brutal and efficient while the FAL is svelte and elegant.

The said I’ve got a PTR91 because it was significantly cheaper to get it and magazines than a FAL and mine has a chunk of picatinny rail welded to the top of the receiver so it’s easy to use modern optics. Mounting optics on a FAL isn’t so straightforward.

BSW
 
Pakistan still uses it. I guess that’s where it had come chances to go head to head with the Indian FAL variants.
 
DocRock: Thanks.
Very cool guns; both types. A guy from Germany (who had served in the Bundeswehr) let me try his true German G3 at a rural private club, not too far from Starkville MS. It had all three markings for the fire selector.
The fact that they use "F" (freedom/Freiheit) for "select-fire" is quite cool.

Just a reminder that Ian has more than a few of his superb gun shows on Amazon Prime.
Don’t see my hometown pop up very often.
 
I liked that replacement stock but its over $300, bit pricey.

I never understood why no one made more things to take the G3 pattern mag when they were blowing out tons of them for $2 or so.
Lol i bought 10 of em two years ago at $3 a piece for my C308 'CETME'. Which so happens to also have a welded pic rail as well. I love mine.
 
Horrible rifle.

Stiff recoil, difficult to clear malfunctions, and the worst ergonomics and balance of any Big Three .30 caliber assault rifle.

The M14 is a much superior rifle.
 
With so many people still using AKs, I don't understand where folks get the idea that G3 ergonomics are "horrible". Its a simply, reliable, and modular design, thus it has stood the test of time as a better infantry rifle than the M14 for sure, but when it comes to the FAL I think I agree with ozarks post.

As far as the brass goes(and it goes far pun intended), besides the fact that with few exceptions all of it can be reloaded just fine despite the marks, brass condition obviously doesn't factor into the rifle being used in frontline or reserve service.
 
I had a couple of HK91's for a number of years, and have shot G3's. Im kind of confused by some of the comments in the negative towards them. Just curious, but how many of those complaining about them actually spent some time with one to get to know them?

They are accurate rifles and actually, the guns that started the whole family of "Big Boy Lego" guns we have now. Pop out a couple of pins and you can instantly change up how the gun is configured.

They have the best "combat" iron sights on just about any rifle of the type. Fast and instinctive to use, once you understand them. Many dont.

They can have all sorts of optics quickly mounted, and the mounts retain zero when removed and replaced.

They have the first more realistic combat sling system, that again, pretty much everyone else copied in some fashion.

Ive owned a number of FAL's and M14 type rifles as well, and the 91's are just as accurate as any M14, and more accurate than the FAL's.

Recoil is subjective, and I never found them to have more recoil than any of the others. The recoil impulse is a little different, but if you shoulder any of them right, you get the same "push".

The ergonomics are just different until you get used to them. They arent bad, just different. The lack of BHO is just a typical American complaint (along with the HK triggers), and really not a detriment. Just like the AK's, and similar, when the gun stops running, you reload it. Its really only as hard as you want to make it. Once you figure them out, they work as well as anything else.

As far as reloading ammo for them, it depends on how you have them set up. If you dont have a port buffer on the gun, the brass gets beat up pretty bad on ejection when it hits the rear edge of the ejection port and caves a big dent in the case. The buffer eliminates that.

Yeah, the fluted chambers do mark the cases, but its normally just cosmetic, and doesnt hinder reloading. The cases are usually pretty sooty too, because of the flutes and how the action works. The type of action is a bit harder on the brass as well, and you usually dont get the number of reloads out of it as you would in an M1A. I usually got around 6 or so with the 91's, and maybe 10 or so with my M1A's, before the "ring of death" started showing up. And thats assuming the case mouths on either didnt get to beat up, which was always a pretty common thing, especially if youre shooting around hard surfaces.

You can thank Bush (the republicans will screw you just as quick as the dems, dont let them fool you;)) for making that import ban permanent and that pretty much cinched it for the HK's. HK wasnt much of a help either with their attitude at the time. I paid $550-$600 NIB for my 91's. Sold them for close to $2k a number of years later. I made out like a bandit on the accessories too, and was getting close to what I paid for the guns, for just the claw mounts.

HK makes great accurate and reliable guns, and those Ive owned and later sold, were really the only guns I ever actually made any decent money on when I sold them.

The one thing that always puzzled me with HK's was, how the ATF allowed them to come in at all, as they were so easily converted to FA, and there were a ton of G3 and MP5 parts kits for sale cheap, when they were selling them here.
 
Of course you are right, but many of us reloaders are anal about our brass. ;)
As long as its structurally OK, who cares? With rifle rounds, Im more worried about case head separation signs and damaged case mouths.

The only time I saw brass from an HK look like what your pic above shows, was with IMI "UZI Carbine" 9mm out of my MP5. I dont know if they had a bad lot of brass, or what, but it was actually fireforming into the chamber flutes, and I didnt/couldnt reload it.

Most of what I shoot and reload is/was commercial 308 brass too, as Ive never been a fan of using GI brass. To much of a PITA. The commercial brass is a bit softer and a lot easier to work, and usually longer lived. Being softer, if it were a problem, I think youd see it pretty quick.

99.9% of what I saw come out of 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62 HK's were sooty cases with light scratches on the brass from the flutes. Throw them into the tumbler and they come out shiny and more often than not, you had to look for the flute marks.
 
I like it shiny too, but probably not for the same reasons as some others. :thumbup:

Scuffed up, little nicks and dents, really dont bother me much, and I shoot some pistol brass thats basically tarnished black, and I shoot all my pistol brass to failure.

Rifle brass, Im a bit more picky and diligent in my handling of it and keeping track of it. Pistol brass lasts pretty much forever. Rifle brass, about 10 loadings. :)
 
While his bench-racing observation for the HK to FAL comparison is valid within its own parameters, I have had extensive experience with the platform among many others over a career in SF and dealing with foreign Services.

If anything is going to go down in the Third World among the top-tier service arms it will be the HK. I've probably seen more HKs being carried and issued that were essentially unserviceable, as fielded, for lack of proper maintenance, training and/or support than all other platforms combined.

I've yet to see a FAL that does not return above average accuracy for a Service Rifle with issued ammo. Add to that that the FAL architecture will EASILY take the otherwise legendary levels of abuse and ill training for which the AK system is famous.

Ian surely knows his stuff and the HK platforms are wonderful weapons.... For the right militaries.

Todd.
 
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