tark
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You left out the n't at the end of your last wordCause it is.
G3 in current use
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DocRock
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It's utterly irrelevant and purely cosmetic. I have reloaded brass just like that five times without issue. I normally reload three times and chuck but reloading is a non-issue.
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DocRock
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I left nothing out.You left out the n't at the end of your last word
Glockula
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The striations are better than the rifle throwing the brass 30 yards right of center!
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AlexanderA
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As does its archrival, Greece.
The main reason these countries adopted (and keep) the G3 is that they made deals for licensed local production. The decision was budgetary.
Bwana John
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The Mexican Army used as a standard issue a domestically produced under license G3, (and MP5) until a couple of years ago when they switched to an (unlicensed) G36 copy they call the X-05 Xiuhcoatl "Fire Serpent".(5.56)
jonnyc
Member
I love my G3...never formed an attachment to FALs or other semi .308s I've had. Just did a "Rhodesian Camo Job" this week for fun. The "Baby Poop" is actually right on, but the blue-green came out too green-blue. I think I'll take it to the range tomorrow.
Ugly Sauce
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I fired a CETME just recently, and thought the recoil was very mild. I could get my cheek-bone right up against the hump there at the end of the receiver, and my eye nice and close to the rear sight, and a good cheek weld with no pain or discomfort. ?? Does anyone actually consider the recoil of the G3 "sharp"? Or uncomfortable? The thing weighed 1/4 ton I would guess, so I wasn't expecting much either. Fired it with some different mil-surp and Federal ammo.
I like the rifle, a little bit front-heavy, and due to the weight I don't think that if I had one, that I'd want to add any doo-dads on it like scopes or red-dots, flash lights, weather stations or a bayonet. !!!
I like the rifle, a little bit front-heavy, and due to the weight I don't think that if I had one, that I'd want to add any doo-dads on it like scopes or red-dots, flash lights, weather stations or a bayonet. !!!
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Bcwitt
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I used to have a century cetme. It shot pretty well. Never had trouble reloading for it. Used cases many times. I dislike the magazine well, but that is my only grip w the type.
I have a PTR91 with wood furniture and it kicks like a mule. I don't have an M1A but I do have an M1 Garand in what was .30-06 and will be .308 soon - the recoil on that gun was noticeable only after about 100 rounds in a row. I'd take the latter over the former any day (and often that is the case).
Ugly Sauce
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I fired a FAL long time ago, and just remember that nothing really stood out about it, good or bad. Have never shot an M1A. I've never thought of my M1 as either a light or heavy kicker, and I've fired many rounds in a day at Appleseed shoots.
Not sure what a PTR91 is, but will google it!
Not sure what a PTR91 is, but will google it!
The PTR91 is an American made version of the HK91 (a semi auto G3).
tark
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Or possibly not that bad an endorsement. We have an Iranian made PPSH 43 in the Arsenal Museum in 9mm. It looks like it has never been fired. It actually exhibits metal polishing on the external surfaces and is nicely blued. The wooden butt stock is nicely fitted and the safety and selector are butter smooth. I know it was probably made before the radicals took over the country but it does prove that there was a time when the Iranians could make high quality firearms.
Ugly Sauce
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Watched a couple of Vids on the PTR. Amazing is the current interest in the G3 lately, which I have noticed. I wonder why your PTR would kick. (and like a mule no less!) ? The CETME I fired was wood stocked. There was another one there, which was tacticool/synthetic stocked, which I did not fire. I sure liked the looks and feel of the wooden stocked one better, and that's why I chose that one to shoot.
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DocRock
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Sure, and I have a M49 Mauser Carbine sporter that shows the same. But this sounds a little like “Castro was great! He had literacy programs.”
All I can tell you regarding mine is that my teeth get rattled with every shot and the bruise on my shoulder is worse than other rifles (my shoulder tends to bruise after shooting anything larger than .22 for some ridiculous reason).
I have other .308s to include a lightweight bolt action that have softer felt recoil. Perhaps my PTR just doesn't like me?
tark
Member
Not sure what saying that the Iranians used to make some quality guns has to do with Castro's literacy programs....but OK
Sure, and I have a M49 Mauser Carbine sporter that shows the same. But this sounds a little like “Castro was great! He had literacy programs.”
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DocRock
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If you find the recoil on your PTR91 unpleasant, an improved buffer tube may help. Stock geometry may also be an issue. There is also a butt pad available that is a little softer and taller, thereby diffusing the recoil impulse more effectively.
https://hkparts.net/product/enhanced-heavy-buffer-g3-91-ptr.htm
AK103K
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I think recoil is subjective and any more, a lot of what you learned on and how you were shown to shoot can have a big impact on that. There's the pre and post 5.56 eras to be considered.
You can often tell just by the way someone holds/shoulders a rifle what era that was too.
Are you basing the recoil of the PTR from a proper field position? Or from shooting it off a bench? That alone can make a major difference in how things feel. Personally, I dont understand why anyone would shoot off a bench, if for nothing more, than the way the gun tends to beat you up. You cant properly shoulder the rifle, and you cant move with it properly when it recoils. You have to properly shoulder the gun, or you just get beat up.
You can often tell just by the way someone holds/shoulders a rifle what era that was too.
Are you basing the recoil of the PTR from a proper field position? Or from shooting it off a bench? That alone can make a major difference in how things feel. Personally, I dont understand why anyone would shoot off a bench, if for nothing more, than the way the gun tends to beat you up. You cant properly shoulder the rifle, and you cant move with it properly when it recoils. You have to properly shoulder the gun, or you just get beat up.
kBob
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In the Mid 1970's an HK 51 with the G3 mag release was importable and a GI could pick one up for $180 in West Germany and import it free of tariff on a Custom Form 6A.
Some one Kick me.... Oh course on $412 a month before the Ducks got to it that seemed like a lot of beer.....
As a young troopie I wanted a G3 for one reason...it was 7.62 NATO rather than 5.56 Poodle Shooter.
I qualified with the G3 twice and shot it a number of times. For me the most fun was the times I fired the G3 and HK 51 with the .22 adaptors,
For shooting I liked the FN FAL (and Ian drives me crazy making it sound like "Fall" Dang it its "ef eh el!" Does he shoot a "bar" or a "Bee eh Are?") better than the G3, on the other hand manuavering around inside the back of a Marder or other IFV I might like a G3 better. Call me an old fart but I like the M14 better than either and yes I have carried it in Florida Woodlands and shot it and the civilian M1A and such as well
GIs of whatever flavor seldom get to choose what rifle they carry. Yet folks insist "that well the "Kuzbannian Infantry" must like it"....no the Kuzbanian government bean counters like it, kids.
The Germans themselves initially adopted the FN FAL but dropped it in favor of a German produced gun that might have been a nickel cheaper to make in the numbers they wanted and no money would go to the Belgies!
I will say that Brass from a HK 91 that has not had its moth crushed by impact with concrete, trees, or posts nor ben stomped in the middle by the HK ejection port reloads just fine for use in an M1A.... assuming the HK extractor did not half rip off the rim....
...and just to back up Apache Tod...
My Landlord near Hanau in 1982 told me about working on a desalination plant for the Saudis not long before and they had to have an armed guard anytime they left the European Compound, even to work. Most days they ended up with the same kid, they thought maybe so he could work on his German to better serve the Crown. One day they got to a point in the work where they needed more parts and those parts would be over an hour in getting there. Landlord's partner noticed what seemed to be rust around the ejection port. He asked if Saudi Military Police Sargents were in the habit of letting their men have rusty rifles and the guard responded that he whipped it off frequently but it kept coming back. Wickart asked when the last time he had it apart was and the Guard just looked at him.
Somehow they convinced the guard to let then hold the rifle and one of them immediatly punched out the pins and pulled off the butt.
The Guard screamed "YOU HAVE BROKEN IT!!!!" and they nearly fell down laughing. The guard was further shocked when they began to try to "Mortar" the Bolt and carrier group out and eventually used the boot to the cocking handle techneque ( and remarkably did not break the cocking handle) to free things up. There was thankfully no round in the chamber. Wickart described looking down the bore as being in a cave bats had lived in for centuries. They cleaned the rifle. Got a good function check and then gave him the clean rifle. They asked to see his magazine and it was cruddy as the rifle had been and the brass ( all ten round) all discolored. They cleaned all that as best they could and gave it back.
The next day the guard was very happy for his Sargent had noticed how much nicer the outside of the rifle looked.
Before the job was done three of the guard's buddies that were on different days ask them to clean their rifles that were all in the same shape.
This story would later make me have greater understanding of the Saudi panic over the invasion of Kuwait.....
-kBob
Some one Kick me.... Oh course on $412 a month before the Ducks got to it that seemed like a lot of beer.....
As a young troopie I wanted a G3 for one reason...it was 7.62 NATO rather than 5.56 Poodle Shooter.
I qualified with the G3 twice and shot it a number of times. For me the most fun was the times I fired the G3 and HK 51 with the .22 adaptors,
For shooting I liked the FN FAL (and Ian drives me crazy making it sound like "Fall" Dang it its "ef eh el!" Does he shoot a "bar" or a "Bee eh Are?") better than the G3, on the other hand manuavering around inside the back of a Marder or other IFV I might like a G3 better. Call me an old fart but I like the M14 better than either and yes I have carried it in Florida Woodlands and shot it and the civilian M1A and such as well
GIs of whatever flavor seldom get to choose what rifle they carry. Yet folks insist "that well the "Kuzbannian Infantry" must like it"....no the Kuzbanian government bean counters like it, kids.
The Germans themselves initially adopted the FN FAL but dropped it in favor of a German produced gun that might have been a nickel cheaper to make in the numbers they wanted and no money would go to the Belgies!
I will say that Brass from a HK 91 that has not had its moth crushed by impact with concrete, trees, or posts nor ben stomped in the middle by the HK ejection port reloads just fine for use in an M1A.... assuming the HK extractor did not half rip off the rim....
...and just to back up Apache Tod...
My Landlord near Hanau in 1982 told me about working on a desalination plant for the Saudis not long before and they had to have an armed guard anytime they left the European Compound, even to work. Most days they ended up with the same kid, they thought maybe so he could work on his German to better serve the Crown. One day they got to a point in the work where they needed more parts and those parts would be over an hour in getting there. Landlord's partner noticed what seemed to be rust around the ejection port. He asked if Saudi Military Police Sargents were in the habit of letting their men have rusty rifles and the guard responded that he whipped it off frequently but it kept coming back. Wickart asked when the last time he had it apart was and the Guard just looked at him.
Somehow they convinced the guard to let then hold the rifle and one of them immediatly punched out the pins and pulled off the butt.
The Guard screamed "YOU HAVE BROKEN IT!!!!" and they nearly fell down laughing. The guard was further shocked when they began to try to "Mortar" the Bolt and carrier group out and eventually used the boot to the cocking handle techneque ( and remarkably did not break the cocking handle) to free things up. There was thankfully no round in the chamber. Wickart described looking down the bore as being in a cave bats had lived in for centuries. They cleaned the rifle. Got a good function check and then gave him the clean rifle. They asked to see his magazine and it was cruddy as the rifle had been and the brass ( all ten round) all discolored. They cleaned all that as best they could and gave it back.
The next day the guard was very happy for his Sargent had noticed how much nicer the outside of the rifle looked.
Before the job was done three of the guard's buddies that were on different days ask them to clean their rifles that were all in the same shape.
This story would later make me have greater understanding of the Saudi panic over the invasion of Kuwait.....
-kBob
Bwana John
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He is using the correct pronunciation of the alphabet for the country of origin.
If you want to get stinky about the pronunciation of some funky foreign alphabet perhaps you should just translate it into English and call it a LAR instead.
kBob
Member
I call them an "Ef Eh EL" because from the mid 1960's until around 2000 I never heard them called anything but that other than by the host country nomenclature like G1 or L1A1, or Springfields "T48".... Even when I used them. That is what I called them those 35 years and no one, Belgian or not , ever corrected me.
If I were doing a direct translation I suppose I should call them a RAL for Rifle Automatic Light.
It irritates me much as they're-Their-There irritates the Grammar Nazis, or the lack of a terminal comma irritates an old writer, or the "misuse" of Magazine/clip irritates most under fifty gun bunnies.
Just call me an old retread and be done with it!
-kBob
If I were doing a direct translation I suppose I should call them a RAL for Rifle Automatic Light.
It irritates me much as they're-Their-There irritates the Grammar Nazis, or the lack of a terminal comma irritates an old writer, or the "misuse" of Magazine/clip irritates most under fifty gun bunnies.
Just call me an old retread and be done with it!
-kBob
Bwana John
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A good translation includes syntax. Hence "Light Automatic Rifle"
Or StG58, or G1, or R1, Or FSL, or FAP, or SLR, or L1A1, or T48,.or C2, or FALO, or M964, or m/962......
But is a 50.63 FAL a "pear-ah" or a "par-ah"?
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