Gen. Sherman's war spoils at bottom of SC River

[Midwest]

Gen. Sherman's war spoils at bottom of SC River


They might dam the Congaree River in Columbia South Carolina. And this could mean the recovery of Confederate Munitions dumped by General Sherman a Century and a Half Ago.

Not sure if this belongs here, but the article does mention the Civil War and possible recovery of Confederate Munitions.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015...-south-carolina-river-gen-sherman-war-spoils/

"The State reports on a most unusual side effect of damming the river to do so: the possible recovery of Confederate munitions seized and then dumped by Gen. William T. Sherman's Union army a century and a half ago. The State includes a list of what Union troops logged as having captured from their Confederate counterparts in taking the city on Feb. 17, 1865: 1.2 million ball cartridges, 100,000 percussion caps, 4,000 bayonet scabbards, 3,100 sabers, 1,100 knapsacks, and more."
.

 

[4v50 Gary]

1.2 million ball cartridges? That's a lot of lead!

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

That is exactly what I was thinking Gary. And they think they have an environmental problem with the tar, at least it has probably contained the lead......

 

[rcmodel]

A lot of lead indeed!

1.2 million rounds of Minnie balls would weigh about 85,700 pounds, or 43 tons.

rc

 

[Ron James]

But first they have to remove 40, 000 tons of coal tar, plus they say people have been gathering items for the last 150 years so they don't expect to find much.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I would think the coal tar would have encapsulated everything below it preventing the water from getting to it. Of course I have been wrong before so this may not be the case as it was in the water before the coal tar. Either way from what I have read it is very nasty stuff.

 

[Ron James]

Reading further it seems the coal tar migrated down stream in the last hundred years , starting from the early 1900's, it is up to two feet thick in places. Be interesting, but I wonder how many locals have already been mining the lead and other items over the years. I would think people would be out in boats and such gleaning as much stuff as possible even before the dust from Sherman's march even settled .

 

[Slamfire]

I would think people would be out in boats and such gleaning as much stuff as possible even before the dust from Sherman's march even settled

The Union Army made a particular example of South Carolina, it being the first state to secede from the Union. After Sherman’s Army passed by, from the burnt ruins of the city, I think whatever residents were left were more concerned with finding clean water to drink, food to eat, and a structure that would keep out the rain.

Picture from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia,_South_Carolina_in_the_American_Civil_War

 

[Jim K]

By the time an invading army gets done with a city or country, none of the inhabitants are worrying about finding arms and fighting off the enemy - they are worried about surviving. That was the fallacy of the "Liberator pistol" concept, and why they were never used. Like some political ideas today, it was totally divorced from reality.

Jim

 

[Ron James]

True that, I've read a number of books in reference to the civil war. the cause, effect and the aftermath, In fact I'm reading one now. But after the war people do get on with their life, and after all, that lead in the river can be used and sold, not as valuable as gold or silver but still worth salvaging, plus the sabers can be used for hoes ( Stores in the US did that with bayonets after
WWII, took the blade and welded them to a steel shank and stick and made a knife hoe ). I'm not saying people jumped into the river to salvage war material to keep on fighting, their war was lost and they knew that, but rather to gather lead, steel and iron that they could sell and use in their every day life in the years afterward. Even the local museum curators state they doubt if very much is there to find. My mother's kin folks were poor Kentucky famers and I know for a fact they would never let anything such as that go to waste, in fact anything that was left unlocked would also be put to use . Even before the dust settled behind the Great Destroyer ( as the south likes to refer to him ) people were trying to find ways to live , find shelter and food , this went on for years afterward, no, they were not going to let valuable resources rot in the river for years when they could use it.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Even when the war had passed them by there was still a need for providing food for the table which requires lead and powder. Coming from a poor rural background I also understand the concept of 'useful salvage."

 

[rcmodel]

I doubt there was much food for the table to be shot after Sherman laid waste to everything.

Sherman's army had foragers out killing anything they could find to feed themselves.

His 'Scorched Earth' policy meant just that.

There may have been river salvaging going on during reconstruction.
But I imagine any lead recovered went into roof flashing rather then bullets & shot to feed themselves on nearly non-extent game.

And the pine tar went into the fire to melt the recovered lead to make the roof flashing.

rc

 

[Ron James]

The civil war brought forth the concept of total war such as we used in Germany in WWII, Destroy the will of the people to continual.

 

[PowerG]

No idea if it took place at this location, but the need for all the scrap metal available during WWI and WWII led to similar locations being dredged during those years. The Alabama River at Selma, AL, produced many tons of scrap.

 

[Palehorseman]

On Confederate ammunition, read the book (Never For want Of Powder" Starting with nothing and no expertise, in Augusta, GA the Confederacy built the largest and most modern powders works in the world at the time and producing the highest quality powder available. When the yanks captured rebel powder, they often used it and destroyed their own.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=never+for+want+of+powder

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Lead is inert. Unless you happen to be a duck lead is not going to hurt you. Lead kills ducks because they have a gizzard. Lead shot get in the ducks gizzard where the lead is ground into a powder that can kill ducks. If a human ingests lead shot in small amounts the lead will just pass through his system. Lead has to be ground into a powder and have a carrier to get into the human system.

I grow hay for racehorses. Every time a insured horse passes away a scan for toxins is performed on the horse. The horses feed and hay are also tested for toxins. None of my hay has ever found to have any toxins in it. I shoot in my fields all the time. In fact one parcel I lease was part of a WWII bombing range. I had the soil tested before I leased the land, no toxins

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I think sherman is a war criminal for what he did to the South.
Fully expect him to have lied about the quantities he dumped into the river also.

If it turns out to be 10% true it will upset all those who want to ban lead in bullets. Of course, if they simply dug up a few bullets from the Civil War and weighed/measured them they would realize that little, if any, of the lead has gone anywhere in all those years.

In some cases lead will mobilize but usually with man's help while trying to "clean" things up.

On a different note, I thought building dams was falling out of fashion in the states. Surprised to see them proposing new ones.

 

[rhinoh]

It isn't a dam they will build- it is a cofferdam of sorts along the east bank of the river. The river flow will never be stopped.

The underwater archaeologist for SC already says he doesn't expect huge amounts of civil war stuff to be found.
There was an effort in the 1930's that already recovered a lot of it.

 

[Robert]

This started out as sort of on topic but has since wandered far from anything resembling an on topic discussion for THR.