General George Armstrong Custer's Revolvers "Question"

[Desert Scorpion]

Hi, I have been reading up on old history; mostly that of the Indian Wars and the famous people that contributed to that era in history. I am a large Black Powder enthusiast and own many old style firearms of that era, including 1. Sharps Military carbine (Paper Cartridge Model) 2. Remington New Army revolver (1858) 2. Colt Navy (1851) 3. Colt Walker (1847) 4. Colt Army (1860) . I am currently reading General Custer’s "My Life on the Plains” or, Personal Experiences with Indians. Which is a very good book to read, I am half way through it. Through reading the book I can’t help but wander what firearms Custer carries on his person through this point in history from 1866 to 1873. During his Campaign before Little Bighorn. He speaks many times about his revolver even in the instance where he is attacked by a buffalo and shoots at it, with the unknown revolver. He just calls it a revolver and it would really be appreciated if someone could tell me what exactly he carried on him. I already know what he carried at Little Bighorn so don’t answer that part. What revolvers and rifle did he carry at the Battle of Wa****a River in 1868, and before that? Thanks hope you can answer this question.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

I just looked over my Post and saw the server engine terminated some of the letters in the Famous battle Custer was in so I spelt it kind of diffrent so you know what im talking about " The Battle of W-a-s-h-i-t-a"

 

[Tommygunn]

From what I have read, during his early career he carried a Colt 1861 Navy revolver. There is a picture of him that was taken after he graduated from Westpoint where he's holding a small Colt "Root's" revolver, but that may have been a photgrapher's prop.
In 1868 the 7th Cavalry would have been issued Spencer Repeaters. I believe Custer owned a Remington Rolling Block but I don't know if he had it at Wash-ita; he would have used a Spencer during battle anyway.
And I don't think Custer was actually ever "attacked" by a Buffalo. In My Life On The Plains, Custer writes about leaving his regiment during the Hancock Expedition with his two hounds chasing after a deer, which the hounds lose. At that point he sees a lone buffalo, and he and the dogs are "off to the races" after the buffalo. The buffalo tires, and Custer writes he places the muzzle against the creature's head a few times, but always decides to continue the charge ... the poor creature is exhausted beyond endurance, and stumbles -- right into the Son of the Morning Star's favorite Civil War mount, Custis Lee, knocking horse and rider into the snow (there was about a foot or two on the ground, this was a winter campaign in "Indian Territory") During this collision, Custer's gun goes off, and as luck would have it, the ball blows his horse's brains out ....
So here he is, the great General ... alone .... his horse dead .... his revolver spun away into the snow somewhere ... and not too far away ... one truly pissed off buffalo.
Not a comfortable position to be in, eh?
Well, after a short while, a small detachment of cavalry shows up and they provide another horse for him, and it's back to Custer's day job. One thing that mildly amused me is he asked one officer how they managed to find him so far out in the wilderness ... the officer pointed out that they simply followed his horses footprints ... in the two feet of snow ....

This was not one of Custer's better days, obviously .........

 

[Tommygunn]

Hmmmm.. the "edit" function has gone out to lunch on me....
I was going to add, during the civil war Custer didn't command the 7th Cavlary; that was commissioned in 1866. Custer commanded various Michigan Volunteer Cavalry units. They were issued at first Spencer Rifles at this time, and later Spencer Carbines. The 7th Cavalry would carry this carbine from its inception until 1873 when the army in its infinite wisdom replaced them with Trapdoor Springfields.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The Spencers were declared obsolete and one year before that ill-fated battle, the Seventh Cavalry replaced them with the newer Trapdoor Springfield. Per the returns, they had 119 .52 caliber and 374 .50 caliber Spencers on June 30, 1867. See John D. McAulay's Carbines of the U.S. Cavalry, 1861-1905, page 92.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

Thanks, you are right he was using a Spencer as he says so in the book. Sorry for the mix up with the buffalo, I dont know why I thought he got attacked. Funny that he shot his own horse. I still would like to know what pistol he carried though. Someone has to know!

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

seems I read somewhere that he was packing a pair of English made .44 cal's with him at Wa****a. unsure about it. probably had several revolvers of different makes.

 

[Blackfork]

Son of the Morning Star

-A book by Evan S. Connell is a pretty good Custer biography. I think he had a pair of English .44 revolvers at Little Big Horn which were never recovered. Surely he had some kind of rifle as well. I'd look it up but the book is loaned out.

 

[Cincinnati Slim]

Custer's Revolvers

I'm gonna have to agree on the English revolvers claim.

I'll have to look it up when I get home but in the big 'ole coffee table book "Peacemakers" I got last X-mas but Custer had a really fancy pair of engraved English revolvers given to him. I'm pretty sure they were Adams and/ or Tranter Double Action presentation grade revolvers. Now whether he actually carried these out into the field is something we'll never really know. Given his vainglorious egocentric personality I'm willing to bet he did !

Slim

 

[Jim Watson]

I have also read that he was carrying some sort of British DA at the time of the LBH; and also a Remington Rolling Block rifle. I have no idea what he had in 1868.

 

[Pulp]

I'm just curious, what is so evil about the word "Wash-ita"? It's a river in Oklahoma, not a porn or cuss word. At far as I know anyway.

 

[Tommygunn]

As I said, I *believe* he was carrying a Colt Navy 1861 at Wa-shi-ta, and during that period in time prior to the common introduction of fixed ammo handguns. At the Little Bighorn he did have Bulldog self-cockers, but the originals poster apparantly already knew that, and wanted to know about the guns of his early career.

And I have NO IDEA why Wash-ita is bleeped here, some funky anti blaspheme program thinks it's a cuss word....shows how smart computers are!!!! *snicker*

 

[Snarlingiron]

Wa****a

Wash-ita

W-a-s-h-i-t-a

Absolutely pathetic commentary on the "politically correct" world in which we live.

How about Wafecesita?

It is a bunch of nonsense up with which I shall not put.

 

[dwave]

Absolutely pathetic commentary on the "politically correct" world in which we live.

How about Wafecesita?

It is a bunch of nonsense up with which I shall not put.

Don't know exactly what you are talking about but it is edited the way you quoted because of the "S-H-I" in Was-hita, you know, the profanity filters?

But if you don't like it, you are always free not to read this topic!

 

[Tommygunn]

But if you don't like it, you are always free not to read this topic!

Yeah, but ....er, don't you have to read it before you know it's there to complain about ... or something????

 

[raginrednek]

adams revolvers, rec'd as a gift

 

[dwave]

Yeah, but ....er, don't you have to read it before you know it's there to compalin about ... or something????

Hey, you don't hear me not complaining!

(BTW I was joking with my free not to read comment, hence the if anyone didn't know)

You all can have your topic back now.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

So it would seem that so far all we can agree on is he most likely carried a 1861 36cal cap and ball for the time around the battle of W-a-s-h-i-t-a, funny how it is so hard to come by what he carried I have googled it over and over NOTHING:banghead:. So! who else here has read his book "My Life on the Plains".

 

[Lone Star]

I have seen photos of the cased set of 1861, not the older 1851, Navy Colt .36's. They were either all nickle/silver plated or had gold plated cylinders. Not sure about the cylinders. Engraved, too.

He did have a commercial hunting rifle Remington Rolling Block.

After the Civil War, he may not have regularly used a saber. The 7th did not take their sabers to the Little Big Horn.

Custer liked guns and is known to have had a number of them.

Presumably, the Sioux got away with a rifle and the two English revolvers, if that is really what he wore then. They would have been short ranged, compared to a Colt, Remington or similar US gun.

The guns were supposdly Webley Royal Irish Constabulary models, ivory-butted. Caliber was the anemic .450. It was found wanting in battle, and the .476, then the .455 replaced it. (British issue was the Adams. Officers bought what they wanted.)

I have never before seen that he may have owned Tranter or Adams guns, but he might have.

Most famous gunmen and soldiers of that day owned a number of firearms, most of which will never be authenticated as having been theirs. Wyatt Earp may or may not have owned a Buntline Special.

Lone Star

 

[Desert Scorpion]

I believe lone star is right he may have had more than one revolver since his stature was so high. So far I will have to assume he carried a 1861 during the era and at the battle of W-A-S-H-I-T-A maybe some one will read this and give us all good evidence to support the 1861 claim. It really is annoying when reading the book to not know what he is carrying on him.:banghead:

 

[geim druth]

I read 'Following the Guidon' by Elizabeth Custer, but don't remember mention of his revolvers.

She does describe her husband hunting shortly before the W-a-s-h-i-t-a.

"This officer remembers to have seen General Custer cut the head from a turkey with a Spencer repeating rifle at two hundred yards."

She implies that Custer actually had two rifles and lent the second to his orderly when they went hunting.



Wish I could hit a turkey's head at 200 yards.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

I believe the "English pistols" were Webley British Bulldogs. Wash-ita most likely '61 Colt C&B pistols.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

We know for a fact that he had a spencer and a remington rolling block. We also have a pretty good idea of what he carried at Little BigHorn. So far we have determined he carried a 1861 in w-a-s-h-i-t-a but that is just speculation, I am going to google for a while and see if I cant figure this out.

 

[historynut]

I have a book somewhere called Custer Battle Guns which came out in the late '70s or early '80s. It's a good reference with lot's of photos that details the probelms with the trapdoor shell ejection/extraction, pre LBH field reports and test reports about the carbines and revolvers. The book also follows some known 7th Cav weapons showing Indian decorations, usage, etc. I believe the book makes mention of the Webleys use at LBH - I'll try to dig it out and see if it mentions prior campaigns.

I believe that GAC owned/carried the '61 Navy at W-a-s-h-i-t-a but there are photos of his parlor on post around that time with numerous weapons on display so unless specifically mentioned somewhere, we might never know.

As a side note, remember that when reading anything written by George and Libby Custer that they both took a certain amount of "liberty" in telling their tales. Their comtemporaries often called Custer's book "My Lie On The Plains" - perhaps through envy, perhaps not.

Not to dog him as he was a brave, if not reckless, soul but Custer's most authenic, accurate and honestly written communique was his last. "Benteen, Come on. Big village. Be quick. Bring packs [ammunition]. PS Bring packs."

 

[Tommygunn]

Their comtemporaries often called Custer's book "My Lie On The Plains" - perhaps through envy, perhaps not.

Ha! One of my favorite westerns on video about GAC was made from Evan Connell's THE SON OF THE MORNING STAR, and was a 4 hour TV miniseris of the same title ... the actor who played Captain Benteen refered to Custer's work as "My Lie on the Plains.!!!" The version of the book I have (I refer here to My Life on the Plains, not the Evan Connell one) is annotated by a historian -- who notes how and where Custer was, perhaps, a little...er, "full of himself," shall we say??