German war-era 8mmMauser question (M98?)

[Col. Plink]

Hey y'all,

Had a question regarding the war-era German 8mm Mausers, in terms of what the model variations are. They are usually listed as K98's, the version most familiar and widely used and copied around the world.

What is the M98? I usually see it as a description of the Mauser bolt action itself, or modern altered versions of the K98 ('sporterized').

In looking at one advertised here on THR,

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473356

it's listed as an M98 carbine. Were there war-era carbine versions called M98's, or is it perhaps mislabeled? It looks like the original stock, so maybe it's been cut short? Don't know what to make of it... I have a VZ-24 and this would make a handsome complement to it, I just can't figure out if it's unaltered or what model it really is. Thanks in advance!

-Plink

 

[DMK]

The "K" in K98 stands for Karabiner. So all K98s are carbines and all "carbine M98s" are K98s or Kar98s by definition.

In between the wars, the Germans just shortened their older Gewehr 98 (or Model 98 "M98" ) and made the handier K98 their primary service rifle.

Some light reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_98

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K98

 

[Col. Plink]

What I'm trying to discover is what a 'M98' is and what the rifle in the ad (link above) is.

Thanks!

 

[jimmyraythomason]

M98 encompasses all Mauser Model 98 actions including K98s and Gew.98s. M98s were made for ALMOST every government at one time or another since it's introduction in 1898. The one in the link looks like a K98 carbine version but you should ask savetheclaypigeons to be sure.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

M98 is the action itself. It generally refers to the standard length, or long action, as used by the Germans in WWI and WWII in the Gewehr (Rifle) 98 and the K98 (Karabiner).

It is also used to refer to the many, many, many mausers made on contract for countries around the world that are generally the same, but some few design changes exist (action length, cocking piece design, safety breech, large ring/small shank, bolt release charger guide, bolt handle geometry, floorplate (hinged and pop out), . . . . . . . . . )

The one pictured in the link is straight German K98 that has been bubba'ed (stock butchered to look sporterish).

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

FINALLY got the picture to download!!!

That is a J. P. Sauer & Sohn made (ce mark) 1942 production. Jump on it!!!

 

[DMK]

What I'm trying to discover is what a 'M98' is and what the rifle in the ad (link above) is.

M98 is just Model 98 like Mr pale Horse said.

Most appropriately an M98 would actually be an earlier Gewehr 98, but in thise case it appears to be a Model 98 carbine or Karabiner 98, ie. K98.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It looks like the bolt handle has been replaced/modified and that appears to be a Williams Guide open rear sight(but I can't get the photos to enlarge so I cant be sure). Easily worth the asking price, IMO.

 

[Jim Watson]

It is hard to get into his pictures but it is a heavily sporterized 1898 Mauser rifle.
I can see that:
The military stock has been cut down, the handguard discarded, a recoil pad installed, and the whole thing varnished over.
The military rear sight has been discarded and replaced with a Williams Guide Open Sight. I can't see the muzzle to know what front sight is there.
The barrel and action are shiny and the bolt body black, I think it has been reblued.

I conclude that it is a "carbine" only in the seller's mind and has nothing to do with its original configuration. I THINK it used to be a K98k, the German WW II infantry rifle, but it has been cut up to where I cannot be sure and I cannot read the markings. Seems that Mr Pale Horse could, though. If, like him, you think a Bubbafied surplus rifle is worth the money, at least it is a good quality action, made while they were still winning. I note the seller makes no claims as to bore condition, though.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

Darn the slow server. The more pictures arrive, the more I begin to feel ill.

As Jim Watson said, I think/thought a ce action would be a fun one to restore or to maybe dress up a little more. Unfortunately, I may have spoken out of turn as I had not allowed all the files to fully download. Nonetheless, I still feel Mauser lust.

 

[krs]

This is a later 1944 issue of a K98 Mauser to show what the rifle in the OP SHOULD look like. By 1944 they were kinda' roughly made but still have the glass smooth action that made M98 Mausers famous around the world.

 

[Col. Plink]

So, Mr. Horse, what is it you're seeing now? Is it not what you thought? If it's just that some stock pieces have been discarded, is it still a desirable make? Has the barrel been cut?

+1 krs on the action; I have a VZ-24 c.1940 with action that reminds me of a certain something I used to do with a certain someone...

Too bad the one in the ad is not unaltered; if I could find a K98 in as good condition as my VZ-24 I'd probably be unable to resist.

 

[krs]

Col.Plink: if I could find a K98 in as good condition as my VZ-24 I'd probably be unable to resist.

Well, if you want, make me an offer in PM for the one in my photo...

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

To follow up on the PM, I saw a ce and posted. Later, I had to go back and look again. I completely missed the Williams rear sight. Then, after several aborts, I got "the rest of the pics/story" and realized there was a whole lot of alterations.

 

[Col. Plink]

krs: I had the good fortune of being related to the gentleman that sold me the VZ-24 in what looks to be similar condition to your K98, and he gave it to me for less than the pre-BHO price he got it for. No import marks, excellent condition, $150 delivered. What pictures I have are here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=465423

I'm certainly not expecting a similar offer. Some VZ-24's I saw in deplorable (by comparison) condition at a gun show recently were $225.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Czechoslavakian_vz._24_8mm_Mauser_Rifle.html