Getting involved in black powder shooting

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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Back in the 1980's, I wanted to buy one of the Ruger black powder guns. I didn't, because I had too many questions, and very few answers, and I was thoroughly involved in target shooting, not that much extra time.

Three years ago, I bought one of the Ruger guns, same as I had seen earlier, from a friend. Unfortunately, I had the same things holding me back, not knowing enough about it to feel safe and comfortable with it.

I have one simple question for this thread. Many people have warned me recently about storing black powder in my condo. They say to store it on a shelf, in a cool, dry, location, to never put it in my gun safe, and they mention possibly needing a permit in order to store it legally. What I would buy of course is the smallest size container available.

So, what do I need to know? Are there powders that are more/less safe than others, and if so, which one is best for someone like me?


Also, if I get over that hurdle, is there an article or better yet a video that shows what I need to learn before shooting this gun?
 
Good morning,
Go to YouTube and type in 'How to load and shoot Rugers Old Army Revolver' and you will be presented with page after page of How-To videos. I recommend a fellow named Mike Bellevue whose moniker is duelist1954. You have a lot of research ahead of you and the good news is that it will be mostly fun.
https://www.youtube.com/user/duelist1954
regards!
 
mikemyers said:
Many people have warned me recently about storing black powder in my condo. They say to store it on a shelf, in a cool, dry, location, to never put it in my gun safe, and they mention possibly needing a permit in order to store it legally.
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You don't want to keep black powder in an enclosed space. The enclosed space can mimic a pipe bomb by allowing it to build up pressure and explode if subjected to enough heat or flame.
Unless your condo has rules against having it, it is OK to possess it in Florida. I have no idea about the laws in India.

Take PainlessWolf's suggestion and you will know as much as everyone else about the ROA and black powder.
 
A couple of thoughts in no particular order. Read the instructions or if none download them from Ruger’s website.

It is human nature to make a big fuss about things. Shooting black powder is an example. Before about 1900 all firearms were black powder guns because what we now call “black powder” was the only gunpowder in existence. Black powder was not only used in muzzle loading long guns and cap and ball revolvers, it was used for cartridges. That’s why so many cartridges developed in the 1800s have so much capacity-it was needed to hold enough BP to push the bullet to desired velocity. Compare a .45 Colt case to a .45 ACP, or a .38 Special to a 9mm. The velocities are not very different with comparable bullet weights. Hey, you can even shoot black powder cartridges in a modern revolver-they shoot just fine.

I’ll echo the advice to watch Mike Bellivue’s vids on YouTube. He knows what he’s talking about.

If you have a cowboy action shooting club in your area (check sassnet.com), you will probably find some BP shooters there who have lots of real experience to share. You might even get a chance to shoot some steel targets.

Shooting real black powder is the best. Buy some Ballistol to clean up afterwards, it goes with real BP like ham goes with eggs. Otherwise you can explore the various “black powder substitutes” on the market; I use American Pioneer Powder; it cleans up with plain tap water.
 
While I prefer real black powder in my percussion revolvers, some black powder substitutes can be shipped and stored under smokeless powder regulations (Pyrodex for example). So if keeping “real” black powder becomes a problem, you might consider using a bp substitute that does not come under those rules. It is hard for me to imagine that a one pound can of any powder, stored conscientiously in a safe manner, would raise eyebrows, but you are wise to check it out for sure. Perhaps local gun dealers/reloading suppliers could advise you on local laws with confidence.
 
mikemyers said:
I have one simple question for this thread. Many people have warned me recently about storing black powder in my condo. They say to store it on a shelf, in a cool, dry, location, to never put it in my gun safe, and they mention possibly needing a permit in order to store it legally. What I would buy of course is the smallest size container available.

So, what do I need to know? Are there powders that are more/less safe than others, and if so, which one is best for someone like me?
Click to expand...

You'd need to look up your state/local law regarding black powder storage to truly understand "what is expected of you". Might not hurt to call your insurance carrier too because maybe they would be able to address your concerns. I live in Florida but in a single home style community. I probably have more black powder on hand than most folks so for peace of mind I keep mine locked up in one of THESE. I'm sure most folks here probably would not admit to how they store their BP in fear of being criticized as being either "overkill" or "negligent". Obviously, keep it away from source of heat or electrical fire, i.e. don't store it up against your fuse panel, freezer compressor, stove, clothes dryer, toaster oven, space heater, etc. And, you probably don't want kids or thieves or idiots to steal it. Like you said, don't store it in a gun safe or any other storage mechanism that would allow pressure to build up. Don't make this a big deal (because it's not) but don't be negligent either.

BTW, for folks reading this and considering that powder storage magazine I linked that's actually a pretty good price. When I bought mine in 2012 they sold for $200 at Maine Powder House whereas Cabela's wanted $329.99 but another $49.99 for the casters. It doesn't look like Cabela's sell it anymore but I currently see it HERE for $329.99 plus $49.99.

p.s. I lined mine with with some leftover 1/2" plywood after making hurricane shutters for the house.

p.p.s. FWIW, you can read about the ATF ruling on this as a suitable Type 4 indoor storage box HERE.
 
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ClemBert said:
..........I probably have more black powder on hand than most folks so for peace of mind I keep mine locked up in one of THESE. ........
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You have me confused even more than usual. On the one hand, we shouldn't store black powder in an enclosed safe, but isn't that what this box is? Seems a little big for just one can of powder, but if that's what it takes to do things "right", so be it.

More questions later. I have a lot of reading to do.

By the way, I did find articles and videos on the Ruger - but before I go much further, I want to be sure about the basics, including which powder is best for me, and where and how to store it.
 
BP is put in a can that's made to open up along the seam so it isn't a " pipe bomb ". Store it where you want but try to keep it in a cool place. I keep 10 to 15 pounds in my basement. Any BP is fine - some guys like one over the other, but they all go boob about the same. I use Grafs or GEOX. Do a web search to find some. For handguns use 3F.
 
mikemyers said:
I want to be sure about the basics, including which powder is best for me, and where and how to store it.
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REAL black powder is the best. Substitutes are harder to ignite and may be more corrosive. ClemBert has already told you where and how to store it.

Whenever using black powder or a substitute, it is mandatory that you clean your gun thoroughly with water plus a bit of soap shortly after shooting it. Search on YouTube for videos showing the process.
 
mikemyers said:
You have me confused even more than usual. On the one hand, we shouldn't store black powder in an enclosed safe, but isn't that what this box is? Seems a little big for just one can of powder, but if that's what it takes to do things "right", so be it.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to have confused you so let me try to clarify.

First, I am not implying that you specifically need to store BP in the manor that I did. I was just offering up what I do as I have a lot more powder on hand than most folks probably do at any given time. If I had one to three cans of BP I'd probably put in on a closet shelf away from potential heat sources. As I recall, there are laws/statutes in place that address storage of "large" amounts of BP so in the interest of feeling better about compliance and needing a storage box anyway I decided to purchase the powder storage box. I never would have purchased the box for only a few cans of BP.

Second, the the BP storage magazine is designed to come apart at the weld seems at lower pressures vs a gun safe that will come apart at much higher pressures. The lid on the box is far from being tight or air tight unlike a good gun safe that is typically sealed much better to keep the heat and smoke out.

My advice, don't overthink this. It's not complicated or a big deal to load and shoot black powder. If you simply pour BP (FFFg) into the firearms cylinders making sure you put enough in to avoid leaving an air gap between the powder and the lead ball you will not have any problems. Basically, regardless of how much powder you put in just make sure the lead ball make contact with the powder at a minimum and optimally have the ball compress the powder down 1/8" or so. It is virtually impossible to overcharge a BP firearm with BP. If the cylinder will hold the BP plus the lead ball you are good to go. Just fill-er-up leaving enough room for the ball and slight compression.

p.s. Another reason why it isn't a good idea to store BP in a gun safe is that most serious firearms collector have heating element dehumidifier that is designed to "remove" humidity from the interior the safe thereby protecting against rust by generating a low level of heat. It's a 120v low heating element but you can imagine what might happen if failed and you had your powder stored nearby. I don't know that I've ever heard of a Goldenrod dehumidifier element going haywire.
 
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I store my 3 or 4 lbs out in the garage in a plastic tool box which is 3 or 4 feet away from my gasoline cans and riding mower.
Keep all those explosives in one place.


I do plan to order 10 to 20lbs one of these days and will see about something better - maybe a wooden crate?

We have these Armag containers on base. Might be a little overkill though...
https://www.armagcorp.com/products/explosives-storage/single-unit-magazines/

Not sure if it was this forum or another forum but a member posted that he used this for storing black powder outside:
https://www.amazon.com/MTM-SAC-Survivor-Ammo-Can/dp/B00AU67M5K
MTMBucket.jpg

For a couple pounds of powder a closet shelf would work just fine.
 
Thanks, it will be one can of "real" black powder, based on what I read up above. It will be stored on a closet shelf, where the air conditioning keeps the room around 78 degrees, and dehumidified. This is in Florida, so if power fails, the temp could get up to the 80's I think. I will search for "3F".

There is a group of people at my club who shoot black powder and have matches. The first one I can go to is in mid July. I will be there.
 
ClemBert said:
It is virtually impossible to overcharge a BP firearm with BP. If the cylinder will hold the BP plus the lead ball you are good to go. Just fill-er-up leaving enough room for the ball and slight compression.
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Now I realize he is shooting a ROA. But just to clarify for other beginners who might read this. If you have a brass frame revolver,DO NOT maximum load your chambers. I received recommendation of 20-23 grains for.44 caliber brass frame. And 12-16 grains for .36 caliber brass frames
 
maint1517 said:
Now I realize he is shooting a ROA. But just to clarify for other beginners who might read this. If you have a brass frame revolver,DO NOT maximum load your chambers. I received recommendation of 20-23 grains for.44 caliber brass frame. And 12-16 grains for .36 caliber brass frames
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That's a great point about brass framed revolvers... And we are talking about revolvers that have cylinder chambers. I don't think that full charges on brass framed revolvers is dangerous it's just that over time with many, many large loads it is expected the brass frame (Remington) will start to stretch or the arbor pin (Colt) will begin to pull out as well and also resulting in the cylinder to start slamming against the recoil shield.
 
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mikemyers said:
You have me confused even more than usual. On the one hand, we shouldn't store black powder in an enclosed safe, but isn't that what this box is? Seems a little big for just one can of powder, but if that's what it takes to do things "right", so be it.

More questions later. I have a lot of reading to do.

By the way, I did find articles and videos on the Ruger - but before I go much further, I want to be sure about the basics, including which powder is best for me, and where and how to store it.
Click to expand...

The powder of choice would come down to your intentions. Most powders seem to be consistent enough, but only a few give high performance, which is what you’d want were you to hunt with it.

Here’s an example of how much they can differ with Swiss and Olde Eynsford giving similar results as Triple 7 and the majority of the other powders as standard Goex:



My ROA does well with 35 grns from a rifle measure, which weighs about 38 grns (3F Olde E), no matter what projectile I have used. From the few chronographed results I figure I’m getting high 400’s and low 500’s of energy which is great for hunting with.
 
Member Duelist1954 has many excellent YouTube films on cap and ball revolvers. Go to YouTube and enter his name in the bar, lots of good info.

I shoot exclusively real black powder. My favorite brand is Goex, also the easiest to find in America. Real black powder can be difficult to find in some locals. Dealers require an explosives permit in order to store and sell it legally. Many smaller outfits don't want the hassle so don't stock it, but IT CAN BE FOUND. And worth it, too! It can be ordered from many online stores like Graf and Sons and Powder Inc. They all charge a hazmat fee but buy in bulk and it won't be too costly.

Black powder is an awesome and fun hobby!! Many greay people participate in it. If there's ever a Rendezvous in your area, by all means go to it and talk to the "old timers" there.

One word of advice, though. The cap and ball revolvers are one of the most popular black powder guns out there and they're a hoot for sure. Keep in mind, though, that their repeating nature makes them more complex and potentially
 
Panzerschwein said:
.........One word of advice, though. The cap and ball revolvers are one of the most popular black powder guns out there and they're a hoot for sure. Keep in mind, though, that their repeating nature makes them more complex and potentially_________
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What was the last word that didn't show up?

swathdiver said:
Are you down in Broward Mike? I'm up in Saint Lucie county and shoot over in Okeechobee at outdoor ranges. A long time ago I used to shoot at Markham Park.
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Yep, actually in Miami Beach. I shoot at the Hollywood Rifle and Pistol Club. Wonderful place, safe, not overcrowded (except during matches) and I can spend the whole day there if I wish. Website: http://www.hrpclub.info
 
dangerous ? Anything can be dangerous - I think. Don't worry about it and have fun.
 
A public forum is a great place to gather information, notice the word gather, you then have to compare it to other sources and what better source than face to face with a bunch of like minded folks, If your the people interactive type you'll soon learn how many of your fellow club members store their powder and ammo. By all means attend events and meetings and strike up a conversation with others, if they are any thing like my fellow gun club members they are eager to share ideas and yarns.

Powder is not going to spontaneously combust, it takes an open flame, and any heat high enough to ignite it in storage is already a major threat in its self. My thoughts on storage is more toward protecting it from moisture and humidity, the container its sold in addresses those issues. BATF rules, on amounts and proper containers, on the subject are available online but more often than not, as true for any subject, common sense will likely apply. A general rule for me, moderate temps and lowest humidity available.

I live in Southwest Florida, Charlotte County, winter and early spring, powder in my home, during the summer months, is stored in a interior closet setting on a shelf along with ammo, primers and caps. In the winter months when in occupancy its in the garage in a wall mounted shelf. The garage interior temps in the summer can and do approach 110+ degrees with the high humidity that only southwest Florida can produce. Amount varies, its low now less than two pounds, in January when I return I'll place an order for 25 pounds and several thousand caps, basically a two year supply for me. In Rhode Island its stored in a drawer in the loading bench, year round in a basement room along with other supplies, in varying amounts from two pounds to a new order of 25 pounds.
 
mikemyers said:
That's not the way I do things.
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Well your making a big deal out of a very small deal. A couple cans of BP setting on a closet shelf is going to be just fine and not going to burst into flame for no reason even if your power goes out and the house heats up to 150 degrees nothing is going to happen. Keep the cans away from ignition sources and you have nothing to worry about. If you think a couple pounds of BP is going to make a difference in a house fire your sourly mistaken, by the time the cans ignite you have way bigger issues then the BP adding to the fire.

Don't go around advertising that you have BP stored in the condo or your going to have issues with people that worry to much like yourself and no nothing about it turning you in to the property management who will make a big deal out of it.
 
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