Getting started in black powder

[American_Fusilier]

Hey guys,

I've been wanting to get into black powder shooting. But where do I start?

I would love having a Colt 1851 Navy replica someday, but I think that might be biting off more than I can chew. So maybe a Hawkins rifle?

I am well versed in firearms and handloading.

What do you guys recommend?

 

[Armored farmer]

What's your budget to spend?

The Jim kibler rifles are truly top notch traditional rifles. Their kits are easily assembled and ready to finish with minimal skills.
Look them up online....take a look at their gallery.

CVA and T/C Hawkens can be found on gunbroker. They are entry level rifles but good quality shooters.
.45 caliber is a good target rifle that will hunt deer too.
.40 and .32 caliber is small game and target Calibers.
. 50 and .54 is generally a hunting caliber but some use them at club matches.
I hunt with a T/C .54 Hawken percussion and have taken many deer with it.
My advice is to not buy a cheap flintlock. Honestly the kibler guns are the way to go for a flinter. Imho.

 

[nettlle]

In lines are are a better place to start than traditional muzzle loaders. Not saying the in lines are better.

 

[hawg]

Hawken not Hawkin or Hawkins. Why do you think an 1851 is more than you can chew? A Uberti is a little more work to get right with the short arbor but they will work as is. Pietta can use some work to smooth things up but it will function correctly out of the box. I don't know if you care but 1851 navies never came in .44, they were all .36 caliber and none were brass framed.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Revolvers are easy to use. Most important thing is to get tight fitting caps.

NMLRA believes capping the nipples prevents chain fires. I believe that loose caps cause chain fires.

Second most important thing is to use oversized balls. It should shave a ring when the ball is pressed into the chamber. That shaved ring means that the cylinder is air tight.

There are some useful videos on U-toob (but I learned from books).

As to rifles, suggest you find a used one as they're a bit cheaper. For muzzle loading rifle you'll need:

1) powder horn or flask
2) powder measure (you can make your own). Never load from the horn or flask into the barrel and always use a powder measure
3) short ball starter
4) jag for cleaning and loading
5) worm for removing stuck patches
6) stuck ball remover
7) capper (you can make it out of thick leather) or flints
8) nipple wrench and nipple pick if percussion fire or
touch hole pick, brush and top jaw tightening screw (can be hand made)
9) Synthentic rod for loading (wood rods can break)
10) Optional - stuck ram rod remover
11) balls ' n patches. The latter can be had from the material section of a fabric store (or Wally World)
12) possibles bags. Bag to carry your stuff in (you can make it yourself).

For cleaning hot soapy water or even moose milk:

1) 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap
2) 1/3 Hydrogen Peroxide
3) 1/3 H20

You can use moose milk to clean and preserve your gun. Other folks like Ballistol mixed with H20.

Many of the above can be made and some "buckskinners" take pride in making all their equipment.

Please consider joining the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association. They promote education, explore history, offer classes in gunmaking (build your own rifle) under the masters, competitions and a monthly magazine. https://nmlra.squarespace.com/

Check out this link in this forum for more reading: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/black-powder-essentials.238769/

 

[4v50 Gary]

Hawken not Hawkin or Hawkins. Why do you think an 1851 is more than you can chew? A Uberti is a little more work to get right with the short arbor but they will work as is. Pietta can use some work to smooth things up but it will function correctly out of the box. I don't know if you care but 1851 navies never came in .44, they were all .36 caliber and none were brass framed.

The Brass framed revolvers were a Confederate expediency thanks to material shortage. If you wind up with a brass frame, use no more than 20 grains 3F. You don't want to stretch the frame.

 

[Armored farmer]

Uberti and Pietta guns are good quality. I prefer the Remington 1858 model.
Don't try the Sheriff model(short barrel) for your first revolver because the shortened loading lever makes loading difficult.

 

[jmorris]

I am well versed in firearms and handloading.

If you are new to BP substitutes, remember the powder charge is in grains volume, not actual weight.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Another thought is to pick up any of the books by Sam Fadala. His books can take you through everything you need to know. Or find someone in your area to mentor you. Check out any muzzleloader clubs or events in the area. A revolver is ok to start with, just be sure it's not a brass frame and if it's Uberti fix the arbor, as mentioned above. You might consider sending it to 45 dragoon or myself to get it tuned and the problems fixed right out of the gate. There's a few little things about revolvers that are different than a single shot pistol. If you go the revolver rt 44 is a bit misleading, they are actually .45 cal. Bore size is .450 so one would load a .454 size ball. The chamber mouths can be chamfered to stop cutting that lead ring off, compressing the ball into the chamber. I have never seen any loading instructions from original sources that say a ring of lead has to cut off the ball. Best bet is try shooting both a revolver or a single shot pistol and see which one suits you. Best of luck and hope you get hooked on it like the rest of us.

 

[hawg]

The Brass framed revolvers were a Confederate expediency thanks to material shortage. If you wind up with a brass frame, use no more than 20 grains 3F. You don't want to stretch the frame.

Uh huh except Colt never made any of them. Most of them were a kinda/sorta copy of a Colt. The closest was the Schneider and Glassick but not very many were made. I think there's three still in existence. All of the Confederate brass frames were .36 caliber. FWIW none of them were actually made of brass. They were a bronze alloy called gunmetal or red brass. There was certainly no shortage of iron in the south. There were many iron foundries in the south. Alabama had more foundries than any other state. I think it was cost. If you add all the brass framed guns up they wouldn't amount to more than a cannon or two in iron savings.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...the powder charge is in grains volume, not actual weight.

View attachment 1175938

This is only true with the black powder substitutes.
They can be measured by volume and perform similar to the same volume of real Black Powder.

With real Black Powder, the charge in grains is literally a reference to the weight of the charge.
This is true even if the powder is measured by volume just like smokeless powder most commonly is, when measured utilizing a scoop or drop tube.

If you actually weight every Real Black Powder charge when loading you will be just fine, but might be making extra work for yourself versus using a scoop that throws a known charge.

 

[dave951]

Hey guys,

I've been wanting to get into black powder shooting. But where do I start?

I would love having a Colt 1851 Navy replica someday, but I think that might be biting off more than I can chew. So maybe a Hawkins rifle?

I am well versed in firearms and handloading.

What do you guys recommend?

Depending on where you are, check out the North South Skirmish Association for a serious dive into Civil War arms and black powder. We're a competition shooting group dedicated to Civil War arms including artillery.

Taking aim at history, with rivalries set aside

At this gathering of Civil War history enthusiasts, you won’t find fancyperiod uniforms or carefully choreographed routines. What you willfind are pistols, ...

www.youtube.com

 

[Armored farmer]

Joining the national muzzleloading rifle association is another place to start.....you will reciever the magazine "muzzle blasts". It is chocked full of BP info including shoot dates etc.

 

[Pete D.]

just starting in black powder. Hoohah! Get ready for a ride. There is a lot of "stuff" that is helpful to have. Much of that has been mentioned already. You already know that there are two basic types of firearm....depending on ignition: Percussion and flint. Percussion is easier to start with as long as you can get the caps. (good tight fitting caps.) Rifle or pistol? For many years a safe and dependable rifle, available as a percussion gun or a flintlock, was the Lyman Great Plains Rifle, a kind of Hawken. If you can find one....buy it. There are also BP shotguns and Flintlock fowlers......they are a whole 'other kettle of fish.
Pistols......again, lots of choices. My most fun pistol is a Pietta 1851 Snubnose in .44 cal. It has the best trigger of all of my BP guns except for a .50 cal Underhammer made for me by Greyhaven Arms.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

In lines are are a better place to start than traditional muzzle loaders.

How many people use black powder in an in line?
A traditional patch and ball rifle is much more fun and economical to shoot than an inline.

For even more fun, consider a shotgun.

 

[Starter52]

A replica 1851 is a good place to start IMO.

 

[jmorris]

This is only true with the black powder substitutes.

Exactly what I wrote and even posted a chart showing the amount of difference between some of them.

If you are new to BP substitutes, remember the powder charge is in grains volume, not actual weight.

View attachment 1175938

You can still use a scoop, just needs to be a smaller one. If one can solder, solid core wire and an empty case trimmed to just the right length can be dropped right down into he powder container.

 

[woodnbow]

Hey guys,

I've been wanting to get into black powder shooting. But where do I start?

I would love having a Colt 1851 Navy replica someday, but I think that might be biting off more than I can chew. So maybe a Hawkins rifle?

I am well versed in firearms and handloading.

What do you guys recommend?

What is your primary driver? If you’re mostly interested in a range toy I’d suggest getting the Colt Navy if you like it. Uberti makes a good one and regardless of what anyone says you’ll shoot it a long time without any modifications whatsoever. They’re accurate and really easy to manage. .380 round ball, powder, some sort of lube, (lard/beeswax will work) and caps are all that’s required and the lube isn’t absolutely necessary. If powder availability is an issue they will run happily on any of the substitute powders like Triple Seven or Pyrodex.
The Hawken rifle is another good option, especially if you plan to hunt with it. Simple to operate, accurate, and powerful enough for anything you’re hunting in the lower 48. Welcome to a fascinating sport but I caution you, it’s addictive as all get out…

 

[4v50 Gary]

Uh huh except Colt never made any of them. Most of them were a kinda/sorta copy of a Colt. The closest was the Schneider and Glassick but not very many were made. I think there's three still in existence. All of the Confederate brass frames were .36 caliber. FWIW none of them were actually made of brass. They were a bronze alloy called gunmetal or red brass. There was certainly no shortage of iron in the south. There were many iron foundries in the south. Alabama had more foundries than any other state. I think it was cost. If you add all the brass framed guns up they wouldn't amount to more than a cannon or two in iron savings.

Correct. They were made only in the Confederacy.

 

[1KPerDay]

I made this video a few years back in response to similar questions. You may find it useful, particularly if you choose a cap and ball revolver to start. IMO that's a good way to go. I would select either an 1851 Navy or 1860 Army, either with a steel frame. Or get whatever replica firearm you find interesting aesthetically or historically. Not many people get into black powder shooting for practical reasons. It's supposed to be fun.

Caps are likely to be an issue, purely from an availability standpoint. Remington No. 10 caps are basically unobtanium for the past couple of years. And they are crazy expensive when you can find them. CCI No. 11s are more available, and IME they work okay. They are very close to the same size internally, but are a tad shorter. They usually work.

For a rifle, I'd go with a "traditional" muzzleloader with either a caplock or a quality flint. I don't personally see the point of getting involved in black powder for the sake of black powder and then shooting a modern inline.

I also recommend going through the trouble of finding actual black powder rather than using substitutes.

Intro to blackpowder revolvers: WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY NEED?

What gear and components do you need to get started in the fun hobby of shooting cap and ball revolvers? This video covers the basics and some recommendation...

youtu.be

 

[doubleh]

Here is a +1 for jackrabbit's post. I started by building one of the CVA Kentucky rifle kits back in the dark ages. It was much more rifle than I expected and I did in a few crow's before they became protected. Crows are smart but not smart enough to tell it was a gun instead of a stick and they would sit instead of fly. It was amazing at the damage a 45 caliber round ball did to a crow at fairly close range. I moved on to other kit builds and into revolvers. All are a nasty, stinking mess to clean, not really and pretty easy, but great fun to get dirty. BP is not .1 grain finicky when loading. Some gurus say it takes a 5 grain increase or decrease to see any difference in performance.

I had a long time BP shooter for a mentor and read many books when getting into the game. I find no interest in modern inlines. The fun in my case is to use what our ancestors used, not to get to go deer hunting early.

 

[American_Fusilier]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses! Some good info here that I'll definitely be diving into.

I really like the civil war era revolvers, but I think I'd get more mileage out of a hawken rifle. It would certainly widen my opportunities to get a deer.

I don't really have a budget right now, and I'm not close to buying anything just yet (I want to get out of debt first).

I'll look for a BP club by me. That's a good idea.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Ethan Verity]

Another option to consider is shooting historic black powder metallic cartridges, like 45 Colt or 45-70. I started with an 1851 Navy cap and ball, and enjoyed the historically accurate smoke and spark show of the black powder... but eventually grew tired of the messy and slow reloading process at the range. I'm personally having a lot more fun with the 1873 SAA, loaded up with authentic black powder cartridges. I still need to load the rounds, but it's done ahead of time on the reloading bench when I'm in the mood. Of course it all depends what you're looking to experience with getting into black powder. If the reloading process of an early cap and ball, or muzzle loading rifle is part of the experience you're seeking, then this wouldn't be relevant.

 

[.38 Special]

Welcome to the fold, @American_Fusilier. You'll find more BS in muzzleloading than in a Kansas City feedlot. Here's some of mine.

I agree with those who say a percussion revolver - especially one as popular as an 1851 Navy - is a fine place to start. They really are pretty simple to manage.

As others have noted, it can be a good idea to avoid brass frames, as the soft metal wears with use. I would also warn that none of the Italian guns are are as good as they could be, and that paying a specialty gunsmith - several of them post at THR - will result in a gun as reliable and useful as any modern centerfire.

A percussion rifle, like the Hawken, can also be a great deal of fun and a fine, easy way to start. Pedersoli's "Rocky Mountain Hawken" may be the best of the mass-produced models, though the price tag can be a shock. The good news is that it's not hard to make a reasonably accurate and reliable caplock rifle, and just about any of the currently made ones should serve.

With regard to powder, in my opinion the substitutes are all second best to the real thing. You may hear stories of reduced fouling, easier cleaning, or greater accuracy/energy/whatever, but in my experience those are all just stories. The real reason for the existence of substitutes is legal red tape: it is easier for stores to keep and sell it, as compared with actual blackpowder. If you cannot get the real thing, then the subs are fine, but I would not go out of my way to get them.

I can't tell if the suggestion about starting with an inline is supposed to be a joke.

Short version: I'd just buy the one you've been looking at. Once it arrives, you should get fingerprints all over it, then start a post about what you got. We'll all admire it and give you endless (and conflicting) advice - you should ignore all of it but mine - and then you should buy the bare minimum of stuff to get you going. After shooting it a few times, you'll know two things: whether you want to pursue it, and whether you need more stuff to enhance your experience.

 

[American_Fusilier]

Welcome to the fold, @American_Fusilier. You'll find more BS in muzzleloading than in a Kansas City feedlot. Here's some of mine.

I agree with those who say a percussion revolver - especially one as popular as an 1851 Navy - is a fine place to start. They really are pretty simple to manage.

As others have noted, it can be a good idea to avoid brass frames, as the soft metal wears with use. I would also warn that none of the Italian guns are are as good as they could be, and that paying a specialty gunsmith - several of them post at THR - will result in a gun as reliable and useful as any modern centerfire.

A percussion rifle, like the Hawken, can also be a great deal of fun and a fine, easy way to start. Pedersoli's "Rocky Mountain Hawken" may be the best of the mass-produced models, though the price tag can be a shock. The good news is that it's not hard to make a reasonably accurate and reliable caplock rifle, and just about any of the currently made ones should serve.

With regard to powder, in my opinion the substitutes are all second best to the real thing. You may hear stories of reduced fouling, easier cleaning, or greater accuracy/energy/whatever, but in my experience those are all just stories. The real reason for the existence of substitutes is legal red tape: it is easier for stores to keep and sell it, as compared with actual blackpowder. If you cannot get the real thing, then the subs are fine, but I would not go out of my way to get them.

I can't tell if the suggestion about starting with an inline is supposed to be a joke.

Short version: I'd just buy the one you've been looking at. Once it arrives, you should get fingerprints all over it, then start a post about what you got. We'll all admire it and give you endless (and conflicting) advice - you should ignore all of it but mine - and then you should buy the bare minimum of stuff to get you going. After shooting it a few times, you'll know two things: whether you want to pursue it, and whether you need more stuff to enhance your experience.

Excellent advice! I'll update you guys as soon as i make a purchase!

Thanks!