Girlfriend needs a gun! (small problem)

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thorazine

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My girlfriend is looking to purchase one shotgun and one handgun for her home and range use.

She is confident and comfortable with the following calibers,

9X19MM
.40S&W
.357SIG
.45ACP
12gauge

Her experiance has been limited to the following guns,

Rem 870
SIG P228/229/220ST
Glock 27

The problem area here is,

She has moderate to extreme diffaculty manipulating the slide on the hand guns listed above. She wants something chambered in atleast 9X19MM and is against owning a revolver (I've tried).

She is also left handed.

I'm going crazy trying to come up with something that would fit the bill, something that would be easy to operate in case of a malfunction, etc.

I think the lightest slide with the least resistance I have ever operated was a Ruger P95DC (9MM). It's been a while since I have held one and I am sure there are other options as well.

Any input is appreciated.
 
Didn't they make the Beretta Cheetah with a tip up barrel? Yes it's .380 but technically that's a 9mm.

Other than that I don't know what to say other than a revolver.

Chris
 
CZ 85 Compact 40, if you can find one, with ambi controls. Or, Walther P5, which is naturally set for lefties, if you have mucho $.
Shotgun - anything pump will do cheap! Or, get her a fun one, a chrome 12 ga SXS.....:cool:
 
Ok how about a really off the wall suggestion (VERY OFF THE WALL)

Can she manipulate the bolt carrier on an AR15? How's about an AR15 pistol? Little extra flash, little extra noise though:uhoh: :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, she has no problems with the 870 just the handguns.

Hmmmmm... she hasn't handled my AR15 so I am not sure.
 
Another off the wall suggestion. Again I am not trying to be an A$$ here I am really trying to work with the confines of having trouble working slides and no revolvers.

What about something like the 4 shot COP derringer. .357 magnum, no slides, 4 shots only and a horrible trigger though.

Or what about one of those holsters designed to rack the slide by pushing down on them and then drawing the firearm.

A nice SP101 would work great. Sorry I know it's a revolver but I am drawing a blank here.

Chris
 
thorazine, I run a lot of women through my classes. The biggest cause of slide racking difficulty I see amongst them is usually technique rather than strength.

Instinctivly most people reach over the top of the slide with their support hand, grasp the rear of the slide, and then hold thier main hand still while they try to force the slide back with just their support hand. It is also really easy for them to turn the muzzle past the 180, into their support arm and in a few really bad cases, back into their body.

Have her try the slingshot method. Support hand grabs the top of the slide and holds it tight. Keep muzzle down range. Now just like a sling shot, push out with your main hand (which is holding the grip). With a little work I've found that even women with very weak hand strength have been able to do this method.

Other than that, take her to a big gunstore and have her play with everything. :)
 
I have run older women through my classes who have arthritis. They have wound up with revolvers eventually. Or in one case, a tip up barrel Beretta.

I still think that with a modicum of work just about any service auto can be racked even by people with very minimal hand strength. Also any auto that has more of a grasping surface on the slide will probably work better than one with a more narrow area.

As for easiest to rack? Hmm... If I were going to go out on a limb, I would say that the Beretta 92 has got to be one of the easiest. No real measurement, but it seems like the slide moves very freely.
 
The Kahr K9 has a fairly easy to operate slide. Lots of women like it. It's also slim (less than 1 inch wide) for carry, and has 8 shots of 9mm (or 7 of .40 in the K40). The newer T9 and T40 have one more shot apiece.


Technique is the primary thing manipulating the slide. I've taught about 9 women how to shoot, and the slingshot method generally works best, with a push-pull method (push with the grip hand, pull back on the slide with the other).
 
Similar problem

thorazine,

I went through a similar process with my wife. We spent a long time with my inventory. First, she wanted to learn how to shoot her late husband's service pistol (Beretta 96 DAO), and that's all she wanted to shoot. She wasn't interested in hearing anything about start with a .22 and work your way up. As it turned out, She had a very difficult time working the slide and pulling the long DA trigger.

Then we tried revolvers. She wanted to try one of those "cute" little ones. She discovered with a Ruger SP101 and a S&W Model 19 that there is quite a learning curve to shooting a snub nose revolver well. She wasn't interested in a wheelgun anymore.

Then we moved on to bottom feeders. The PPK/S has the cute factor, but the trigger was hard for her to manage in DA. S&W 3914 was hard for her to operate the slide, even though the pull weight seems to me to be about the same as the guns she actually liked. She was torn between a Glock 23 (Yes; I know it's a .40, but that's one that made the final cut.) and a SW99 in 9mm.

Now, after 1-2 years of practice, she has no problem with the slide on her SW99, or any of the other guns mentioned (except for when she looks at a Kahr in a store). She has zero problems with the trigger on her Beretta 96 or my PPK/S. She's even looking for a new gun: a LadySmith 3913.

First, she had to find the gun she wanted. I might suggest the Walther P99 or the SW99 to you in your search. Once she found one she liked ( for purely subjective reasons) she was comfortable enough to practice enough. Now the only problem is that she wants to take MY guns for herself. ;):(

Best of luck

Templehall
 
I'm with Correia,

Let her loose at a gun store / range - try before you buy.

Let someone else instruct and teach poper technique with these guns. Trust me on this. Includes the Revolver, such as a model 10 .

ON the shotgun - 870 works, again - let someone else assist with gun fit , and lessons. Nothing wrong with a 20 ga btw.

Yes, you get to buy lunch and range fees. Yes you will feel left out. Be supportive - and all this effort ,and investment will pay BIG dividends.

If you folks don't have a .22 handgun - plan on it . Besides being a great teaching tool ...to much fun and quality time can be had with one.



:)
 
Curious, why doesn't she want a revolver? Are they not cool or tactical enough for her? Capacity?

I can't really think of a logical reason why it wouldn't be perfect for her... :confused:
 
The stock recoil springs on the CZ line tends to be lighter than others. Some people poo-poo this and change them, but I've never had a problem with mine. I've let many women shoot my 75B and don't recall any of them having a problem. The CZ85 has ambi controls. Also, the CZ is reliable as anything out there. The grips and trigger reach may be a little long, but can be overcome with a change of grip pannels and training to use cocked and locked. They can be had in 9, and .40SW.

Get her to work on the "Push-Pull" technique of racking the slide. With a little practice, which would strangenthen the muscles needed, she shouldn't have a problem.

As for the shotgun, take a look at the Mossberg 500 if she is lefthanded. They have an ambi. safety, and every bit as reliable at the 870 (not knocking the 870 by any means).

Give her these suggestions, then take her shopping. When you get done at the shoe store ;) , go by the range/gun store and let her try some guns to see what she likes. (Sorry ladies, it was an attempt at humor.)

Have fun.

Calhoun
 
I'd second the suggestion of using the "slingshot" method, plus try tilting the strong hand inboard at about a 45 degree angle -- this gives a lot more leverage for push-pull racking the slide. (this added strength from tilting inboard is the reason some people tilt the weapon inboard a bit when firing offhand or weak hand only)
 
Cock the hammer first on the DA/SA guns, makes it much much easier. When I rack the slide my weak elbow is pointing in the same direction as the barrel and I try to get as much of my left hand and thumb on the slide for as much grip as possible. I also have 2 pieces of the stick on glock decal grip on my SIG to make it easier to grab during malf clearing. The slide isn't that hard to rack but it gets slippery as hell, especially in matches when the heat is turned up.
 
She is extremely safety minded and confident in some major calibers and has put a few thousand rounds downrange through my firearms. Her personal favorites are the .357SIG and .45ACP. While I plink away with my 9MM heh.

Excersizing extreme caution, with a unloaded firearm, I had her precock the hammer prior to drawing back the slide, it seemed to help a little but she still had some trouble.

We're going to concentrate on technique again. Perhaps there's something we're missing or something I have failed to point out to her in my previous attempts. Using some of the reccomendations here in this topic.

She's not rail thin, weak and fragile either. 5'8-9ish and about 130lbs. I guess it might be a arm strength and technique issue.

Curious, why doesn't she want a revolver? Are they not cool or tactical enough for her? Capacity?

I can't really think of a logical reason why it wouldn't be perfect for her...
Click to expand...

Could be. I am not really certain why she completely has dismissed this as a option.

Personally I am not a huge fan of the revolver. I don't own one and don't plan on purchasing one in the near or distant future.

However I really have tried to steer her in that direction as a viable option. I even borrowed a friends SP101, purchased some .38special and .357mag and she wouldn't touch it when we went to the range. Instead she just kept sending tons .357SIG and .45ACP downrange.

Let her loose at a gun store / range - try before you buy.
Click to expand...

Yeah we're probably going to hit a couple stores this coming weekend as she's going to be in the position to buy pretty shortly.
 
I see a lot of women on the range. One woman I talked to told me that she absolutely hated shooting, years ago, and I asked her why. She said, "My ex-husband talked me into buying this revolver I just hated. Every time I looked at it, I got annoyed all over again."

Never mind whether there's a logical reason or not -- if she doesn't want one, talking her into one is very likely to end poorly.

Correia's post is right on the money. More than 90% of the time, when I see a woman having trouble racking the slide, it is a technique issue, not a strength issue at all. (The other 10% are mostly older women who have arthritis or severe carpal tunnel.)

Try this: Have her hold the gun in her dominant left hand and point it in a safe direction.

Her right hand then goes to the top of the slide, with her fingers along the left hand side of it and the base of her palm on the right hand side. Make sure her hand is not covering the ejection port.

If that doesn't work for her, she could try placing her right thumb alongside the left side of the slide and her fingers on the right side of the slide -- pinching it like a slingshot.

In either case, have her then sharply push the gun forward with her left hand -- without -- moving her right hand. Don't suggest push/pull; if you tell her to push with her left and hold the right still, of course she will have to pull the right a little in order to hold her hand still, but if you say push/pull, people who aren't mechanically inclined often get a little confused. Tell her to hold that hand in the same spot while the left hand is moving, and she'll do the rest naturally.

Once she has learned to pull the slide back to unload, she can learn to lock it open as follows.

First, have her use her right hand thumb or right forefinger to pull up on the slide stop. Her left hand is going to keep a firing grip on the gun (finger off trigger, of course).

Have her pull up on the slide stop the entire time she is pushing forward with her left hand.

Don't let her try to get the slide back and then pull up on the slide stop. Holding the slide back while fiddling around looking for the magic spot takes a lot of strength and is very awkward. If she begins pulling up as the slide begins moving, however, the button will glide right into place as soon as the slide gets where it needs to be.

Hope that helps and is somewhat clearer than mud. :cool:

pax
 
She'll have to get used to it. It's not a difficult thing to do. The worst recoil spring weight that I can think of is 18 pounds, while most are around 12. That's a weight that any healthy woman can handle.

The push/pull method works well once women get comfortable with it.

Have her try different grips on the gun and the slide. I see too many women trying to rack the slide with their arms out in front of them. I can do this, and you probably can too, but it's a weak position. Have her try it, you never know, but close to the body at waist level is usually good.

For some women, the amount of grip they have to use to hold the slide causes them pain and this is frequently due to the slide serrations. If all of your serrations are sharp, maybe she can try it with gloves on. Then she can buy her own gun with dull serrations or have a 'smith smooth them out on a gun she likes.
 
I don't condone forcing something on someone, who doesn't want to use it, but sometimes, an extreme dislike for something, is just because of stubbornness. Sometimes, the thing they don't want to use, is much better for them, than what they're so set on buying. (See what I'm hinting at? :p )

It kind of reminds me of here, on these forums, when someone comes in and asks, "what kind of first gun should I get" and everyone recommends a .22.

They say, "I don't want a .22, I want a real gun". Even though starting with a .22, will probably make them much better in the long run.

I don't mean to sound like I'm lecturing, as I love autos too, as well as revolvers, but if she won't even TRY a great little revolver at the range, I don't quite understand the extreme dislike she could have.

Revolvers can at least be fun to shoot! Even if she doesn't want to carry one, having a chance to shoot one at the range can be fun.

Maybe she associates a certain negative stigma with revolvers?

You should find a bunch of revolvers, all different types, load them into your car for a range session with her, but don't her about it. Then "forget" all the other guns... :D

Seriously, I'm just messin around. My friend isn't a big revolver fan either...
 
Exersize and technique. It shouldn't take too long to build enough upper body strenth to work a slide as long as she's healthy and then she can drop that as a negative criteria. It's up to her of course. I can't even get MYSELF to exersize ;)

Beretta is easy to work in my experiance but a lot of people don't like the grip. Have her try the standard and Vertec if possible.

Also recoil spring on a 9mm or .45 will be lighter than a .40 as a general rule. So something to keep in mind.

I like CZs, but she's the one who will have to decide. Have her sign up on here and ask some questions. Maybe she'll respond better to an "unbiased 3rd party". ;)
 
Maybe she associates a certain negative stigma with revolvers?
Click to expand...

Perhaps although I cannot figure out what it could be turning her away. The only point she brought up with revolvers is the capacity issue.

She's a good and consistant shot with my autos, from arms length to twenty yards out and enjoys spending time at the range.

Never mind whether there's a logical reason or not -- if she doesn't want one, talking her into one is very likely to end poorly.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I have made a couple direct and a couple subtle attempts.

Try this: Have her hold the gun in her dominant left hand and point it in a safe direction...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan.

Why not use a revolver. I do. If she cannot clear a jam then she should not be using an auto as it could cost her her life.
Click to expand...

That is my biggest concern.
 
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