Give me a "How To"- private interstate handgun sale

[michiganfan]

Whenever I post a handgun I always want an in state deal. Please walk me through the steps necessary for me to legally sell a handgun to a non resident, for example I know it has to go to a FFL, does it need to be shipped from Michigan by a FFL or can I do that ? What do I keep to show that it was sold? How do I ship it out of state. I need a nuts and bolts explanation. Thanks for your input. Walt

 

[Kamicosmos]

Depends on the two states involved. I use my state as an example:

I want to buy your 1911. We do the money exchange, probably in the form of a money order. Also, I go to my local FFL and have them send their FFL paperwork to your local FFL. Now, Missouri requires me to get a county handgun permit, which involves a background check. So I go get that, and send that along with my payment. Now, when you get the payment, you finish filling out the permit with make, model, serial number, caliber and barrel length, and your address. Then, you take the gun to your FFL he ships it to mine, and I pay a transfer fee, and get NICS run on me as well. Then, you mail the permit back to my County Courthosue for their records. Should also make a photocopy of the permit for your records to CYA that you sold the gun to me and didn't 'loose it' or something.

Simple, fast, and easy, right? Isn't it nice to have the Feds and the States involved in a simple transaction like this?

 

[ajacobs]

Kamicosmos gave a good specific example for his state. First, there is no such think as a legal private interstate handgun sale as I understand it. For handguns you wish to buy or sell out of state they must go through an FFL in the receivers home state, regardless if it is in person or not. Most ffl dealers will require that they receive the firearm from and ffl and get a copy of that ffl but it is not required by federal law.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

As said above....

The quick and easy if no local laws involved:

The buyer finds a local FFL. You ship the gun to that FFL. The FFL transfers the gun to the buyer. No paperwork is required between you and the FFL, but it is a good idea to get a copy of his license just to CYA. An alternative is to get his FFL number and run it through ATF's Easy Check website to verify it's valid.

 

[Valkman]

No paperwork is required between you and the FFL, but it is a good idea to get a copy of his license just to CYA.

When I did a deal with hoggunner we found out that FFL's aren't too excited about sending a copy to private parties - in fact they wouldn't do it. One place, The Gun Store, even got a little nasty about it. He just sent the guns to my dealer who transfered them to me. Should work the same just about whereever you are.

Yor buyer chooses his FFL, and after you get paid you ship the guns to the dealer - then you're done!

 

[Blueduck]

Kamicosmos,

I'm also in Missouri and have done it a bit different than the way you describe on the local permit thing ($10 extortion fee for a check they are going to run on you at the shop anyway ). I've sent only the shops FFL and payment to the out of state dealer (not the local permit). Gave the local permit to the instate dealer when I went to pick up the gun and fill out the paperwork.

In short seems like the recieving dealer is the one who should deal with the local permit, no reason to ship it to the out of state FFL who likely has no clue what he's looking at when he gets it.

Any info to clarify on this

 

[Kamicosmos]

I personally haven't done an interstate sale. You are probably correct in that I would give the permit to my local FFL at time of transfer. (since, technically, I'm recieving the gun from him, makes since he would need the permit.)

But, either way, we in MO do need the permit. Also, you'd think NICS would overide the county background check, eg why do we need a local permit? Cause it's a cash generator, of course....sigh.

 

[Blueduck]

Yes, some strange-thinking FFLs get weird and won't do business that way, or they freak out at the thought of sending a photocopy of their license to someone (what do they think a person would do with it as guns must be shipped to that address only and all they have to do is write "shipping copy" on it to prevent it being presented for an in-person sale).

Peach on brother!

I've sold often but pretty much given up on buying over the net because of local jack --- FFL's in our area.

Section B of following link gives all the Federal Laws on buying or selling a handgun out of state and shipping regs: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3

 

[Jim K]

Saxon Pig is correct. The shipment must be TO an FFL holder (Dealer License or, if applicable, Collectors License), but shipment can be FROM anyone. But yes, always have a copy of the receiver's FFL before shipping and ship ONLY to that address. You also can check a dealer's license on the BATF web site to be doubly sure, as FFL's have been counterfeited. Then keep the copy for your records, just in case the shipment goes astray or winds up in the wrong hands.

True, some dealers will not send an FFL copy to a non-dealer; that is their choice and there is no law that will make them do it. But if you have good relations with your local dealer, you can often, as Saxon Pig says, even get extra copies of his license to give to a seller at a gun show or to send with an order.

One important point: "Shipment" of a rifle or shotgun across a state line can be by mail (US Postal Service), by anyone, as long as the addressee is an appropriate FF licensee. But handguns MAY NOT be mailed (USPS) BY anyone except a licensed dealer or licensed manufacturer. A Collector license (C&R license) holder may not mail a handgun to anyone, even to a licensed dealer or licensed collector. This is a postal regulation, not a BATF ruling. Some people evade this, and say that it is OK to mail handguns if the post office clerk does not ask what is in the package. Contrary to some silly ideas, postal regulations really do have the force of Federal law and there is no "don't ask, don't tell" policy; if the package is x-rayed or comes open, the sender could be in for a serious fine or jail time.

Jim

 

[Hkmp5sd]

always have a copy of the receiver's FFL before shipping

Prudent, but not required by federal law.

 

[Redlg155]

I've done several interstate handgun transfers to other parties as well as recieving handguns.

As mentioned before, many dealers are reluctant to send a file copy of their FFL to a private party non FFL seller. What I do in this case is I get the FFL # from the buyer as well as the phone number and address. Second I do a check with the BATF website. And finally I make contact with the shop I am sending it to in order to verify the name and address. If in question you can also call directory assistance and give them the name of the business to make sure you are calling there. Every legitimate business should be in the phone book or available through directory assistance.

Another point...make sure you pack all the information needed with the handgun you are sending. I usually use a 3x5 card and print the following.

Full Name of Seller. (Me)
My drivers license number for ID purposes.
Street Address. (Not PO Box)
Telephone Number.
Description of Item Sent and Serial #

And Most importantly...Who you are sending it to.

An FFL dealer just loves it when a box just shows up at his strore containing a handgun with no documentation whatsoever.


Good Shooting
Red