Giving gun advice

[GEM]

This is a pretty good article on giving advice about firearms purchasing and use: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/how-to-give-good-advice-when-youre-asked-about-guns/

One point I find most important is that lots of folk (like here) immediately turn the conversation into comparative stopping power, etc. without discussing training, mindset. etc. So many ask things like what 45 ACP should I buy - when they haven't training and/or competed. If the gun is to fight for your life - most of the hardware discussions are trivial with any modern, quality firearm.

 

[JohnKSa]

Competent use is very important.

Gun fit considerations should also be taken into account. Talked to a couple who had bought a pistol on advice from one of their gunny friends. The wife's hands were too small for her to reach the DA trigger on the gun while holding it in a proper shooting grip. The gun was a good gun, but the advisor should have either counseled them on gun fit or gone with them to get the firearm to make sure it was going to work ok for both of them.

Having a gun that will work for the intended purpose, that fits the intended users and that they are able to use competently is really important. If all those boxes are checked, then caliber is the next thing on the list to think about.

 

[film495]

I'd gladly take 5 skilled people on my side with .22s, over 5 people with 9mm or 45 ACP who don't have a clue. So, yea - completely agree.

 

[Old Dog]

This is a pretty good article on giving advice about firearms purchasing and use

It was a very well thought-out and written article. The author kept it concise, for the most part, and limited himself to 4 main points, each of which was clearly stated and pertinent.

If I were still working, I'd try and find some spare time to discuss the article's points with the officers I used to train and qualify on firearms. And emphasize the part of taking one's ego out of the equation and the two great points, listen and be honest. I used to cringe when I heard my "gun guy" officers offering their "advice" to those personnel, especially the new folks, who asked any gun-related questions.

Too often, too many of us tend to get off on being considered "the gun guy" and enjoy regaling others with our extentive personal experience and promoting our personal philosophy on which gun and how to use it, rather than actually being concerned about what the person asking really needs.

Mr. Markel really summed up in a brief and readable manner a topic that usually becomes too convoluted and overwhelming for the gun novices. Another example of how TTAG is a nice resource for gun-owners and RKBA supporters.

 

[CapnMac]

I have this serious hate-on for any one who, when asked, considers training to be "a waste of" time and/or money.

They just want the talisman, not the skill set. They have already locked themselves into a Condition White mindset. Which is not going to help them in the slightest (nor whatever firearm they are brandishing) when it's Red Alert time (or anywhere after Bikini Orange). Those folks get pointed at the higher-end air guns.

For those who are convinced that I'm lying that revolvers cost more then US$50, well, they get pointed at air guns, too.

Un-serious people are complicated to talk to, even when they appear to be serious in asking for advice.

 

[bearcreek]

Internet forums are much more conducive to discussing "hardware" than "software", unfortunately. I've said it many times in discussions on this forum. Most gun owners and carriers would do well to sell half their guns and put the money into a gym membership, running shoes and training.

 

[Old Dog]

I have this serious hate-on for any one who, when asked, considers training to be "a waste of" time and/or money.

In many ways, those of us who spent time in the military are different, because we did all the training and typically didn't get hooked on the hardware until we'd been doing it for a while. I can only imagine how difficult and maybe overwhelming it can be for people new to guns just getting into shooting and gun-ownership -- for those of us who grew up hunting, with dads, uncles, older brothers and granddads as our mentors, and then maybe did time in the military, we had it made -- we learned the important stuff first.

Internet forums are much more conducive to discussing "hardware" than "software", unfortunately. I've said it many times in discussions on this forum.

It's actually like that on any discussion forum, from cooking to four-wheeling to fishing and anything that requires some type of tools.

Most gun owners and carriers would do well to sell half their guns and put the money into a gym membership, running shoes and training.

Been up to my gun club over here and seen some of our Tactical Tommies, eh? Point is well taken. Too often, we think of a firearm as our primary means of self-defense. But a good brain and being in good physical condition should be more of a priority as the current reality is for most people, they will not have a firearm at hand when the stuff goes down.

 

[FL-NC]

The tactical side of the 2A world is full of inexperienced experts.

 

[GEM]

Amen to that. I see a thread about what gun for women - yet again. How about starting with training for women as compared to a list of every gun - usually the one that the poster shoots at the square range.

 

[jmorris]

I can relay my personal experience with a number of firearms but my “gun advice” generally involves the “seeker“ shooting a bunch of different ones and picking what one works the best for them.

 

[AlexanderA]

I try to avoid giving gun advice. If the person later gets into trouble with a gun, I don't want to be blamed for it. The default position, from my point of view, is for the person not to get a gun.

 

[bearcreek]

I can relay my personal experience with a number of firearms but my “gun advice” generally involves the “seeker“ shooting a bunch of different ones and picking what one works the best for them.

Choosing a firearm is another situation where an untrained person generally can't actually choose "what works best for them". They don't have any way of knowing what works best. When I did CCW classes, we always strongly encouraged students not to go out and buy a gun before the class, and many times, they were glad they didn't. Simply going and shooting several guns, without actually knowing how to use those weapons, is only marginally helpful, at best.

 

[bearcreek]

But a good brain and being in good physical condition should be more of a priority as the current reality is for most people, they will not have a firearm at hand when the stuff goes down.

Yup. They're more likely to commit suicide by food and lack of movement than they are to need a gun.

 

[Kleanbore]

I can relay my personal experience with a number of firearms but my “gun advice” generally involves the “seeker“ shooting a bunch of different ones and picking what one works the best for them.

That's great, if the person has any idea of knowing what "works best" means.

The article is great, but I would add saying somehing like "forget everything you think you know from screen fiction".

• Remember that the gun will not serve as a talisman to protect you
• Do not display or even mention, your gun unless you are justified
• Keep in mind that if you do shoot, your misses will hit something
• Do nott try to "win a gunfight"
• Do not threaten or use deadly force to defend property
• Do not shoot anyone because of what he has done
• Stop when the threat stops
• Do not shoot at a fleeing suspect
• Never try to detain anyone
• Do not expect to be regarded as a hero after the fact

The default position, from my point of view, is for the person not to get a gun.

Excellent advice.

 

[jmorris]

That's great, if the person has any idea of knowing what "works best" means.

Can they operate it? Is a good place to start. There are a number of firearms some people have a hard time even using them.

After that can they operate it effectively, hitting what they aim at. Again, there are some that are difficult to shoot accurately for some people.

If you can’t do those two simple things, they are about as useful as a really short and light club…

 

[luzyfuerza]

I have bought a variety of guns that I personally have no interest in shooting regularly.

They are teaching guns. I use them to give new shooters opportunities to try different action types, sizes, sighting systems, and calibers before they buy a firearm for themselves.

Just last night, during a 4H shooting sports orientation, a parent asked what kind of .22 rifle she should buy for her child for the program. My answer: come to a couple of the activities, try a few of the rifles we'll have there, and then you'll have a pretty good idea what will be best.

 

[Old Dog]

The tactical side of the 2A world is full of inexperienced experts.

So true. Sadly, many now are even getting paid to instruct other inexperienced people. And there are a couple of gun shops up here I can't even go into anymore because of that particular vibe, all the "experts" so willing to impart their learned wisdom (oft unsolicited) on all of us non-experts.

we always strongly encouraged students not to go out and buy a gun before the class,

Another great point. I mentioned in another thread that I (thinking I knew best) equipped my spouse with a S&W M&P-9C before her first ever course at Firearms Academy of Seattle. She had continued difficulty racking the slide under pressure as it was a stiff little beast, even though she'd demonstrated she could do it once to load the pistol, but not repetitively, was an issue I had not identified. She came home, told me she didn't like the pistol and appropriated my favorite SIG P-228 which she operated like a champ.

The article is great, but I would add saying somehing like "forget everything you think you know from screen fiction".

That's a key point!

Actually, this is why in many ways it was easier for me to teach some females with zero firearms experience - they had no preconceived notions while not possessing the ego of the typical young male (even those with little or no gun experience) and therefore listened much more closely, were more observant, and practiced the skills the way they were instructed.

A lot of the young males, particularly the gamers or the avid action movie fans, were the worst students in the academy.

We also had issues at times with some of the young guys just out of the military. While most were safe practitioners, they often thought they knew everything there was to know about weapons and tactics (I admit, I was that guy in my final academy). Responding to an alarm from a closed business in the middle of the night, doing a felony hot stop, or going out on a DV call, is not even close to clearing a block in Mosul or Ramadi. Folks who already have training that they've had experience using can be resistant to learning another way or different methods.

 

[bdickens]

Internet forums are much more conducive to discussing "hardware" than "software", unfortunately. I've said it many times in discussions on this forum. Most gun owners and carriers would do well to sell half their guns and put the money into a gym membership, running shoes and training.

Dang! Beat me to it!

 

[ms6852]

I have never considered myself an expert in firearms or reloading. Though I am retired military was the unit armorer at company level, and have been shooting for over 58 years, I still never considered myself an expert in the M16 or 1911 or any firearm I own. I seldom give advice on guns because I really do not know or have experience with the hundreds of types that are mentioned. I do get a laugh of some of the very young shooters that are very adamant about certain calibers or guns, even though I possess firearms that I purchased brand spanking new and are now older than they are.

My experience is limited to the firearms I own and that is all that I will share personal experience on and not what I have read. Many times I won't mention anything if it is something that I may have experience with because someone else has beat me to the punch. I have been asked personally by many people who want to learn about shooting "what is the best gun to buy" for personal defense or carry. My response is always buy the one that feels right in your hand, and don't buy cheap as there is a difference between cheap and inexpensive even though inexpensive is more money, which your life should be worth.
I also always recommend that they should learn the basics of shooting with a 22lr handgun and that should be the gun they buy because it develops proficiency and skills that will transfer to a centerfire, plus it is less expensive to shoot and. I always offer to take them shooting with me and learn and also when they are ready for the next step they are free to use and shoot all my firearms in my presence so they can make an informed decision and if they really like to shoot I will teach them how to reload. Ultimately the decision lies on the buyer and if asked, I believe it is my obligation to guide them what will be best for them and provide unbiased information.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I don't give advice any more. Most people asking the question have already made up their mind and are just looking for a pat on the back.

 

[Smokin Gator]

My son in laws buddy has a son about 20 years old who's interested in getting a handgun. It would be his first one. Initially he was interested in something like a standard Glock 17 or 19. Then he decided he wanted an FN 5.7 caliber and my son in law asked my opinion on that. I explained he'd be far better off with a 9mm with the cost of ammo and more options especially if he intended to really get out and practice with it. If he's only going to shoot it a couple times a year, like many people, it wouldn't matter as much but it would still cost more.

 

[Kleanbore]

Choosing a firearm is another situation where an untrained person generally can't actually choose "what works best for them". They don't have any way of knowing what works best.

You nailed it.

 

[bearcreek]

My son in laws buddy has a son about 20 years old who's interested in getting a handgun. It would be his first one. Initially he was interested in something like a standard Glock 17 or 19. Then he decided he wanted an FN 5.7 caliber and my son in law asked my opinion on that. I explained he'd be far better off with a 9mm with the cost of ammo and more options especially if he intended to really get out and practice with it. If he's only going to shoot it a couple times a year, like many people, it wouldn't matter as much but it would still cost more.

Did he explain where that idea came from?

 

[Smokin Gator]

Did he explain where that idea came from?

No. I asked but he didn't know if someone recommended it to him or if he read some internet posts or what made him think that was a good choice.

 

[Jeff White]

It’s quite likely he got it from a YouTube video. My 18 year old grandson decided he wanted a Sig because Tim Kennedy touted them on his YouTube channel. We have a trip to the range planned over Thanksgiving weekend with an assortment of handguns so we can figure out what fits his hand and points naturally.

I’m not coming down on YouTubers. Media has always driven gun purchases. The Dirty Harry movies made the S&W Model 29 popular. “Sonny” Crocket had the only Bren 10 with more than one magazine after the first season of Miami Vice. You couldn’t buy a Beretta 92F at any price for months after Lethal Weapon was released.