Glock 20 fun. Nuclear 9mm plinking

[atblis]

Evil Plan: Glock 20+conversion barrels. Maybe a long slide in the future.

Goal: Noisy/Flashy high velocity range blaster that I can load for cheaply/easily. Have a ton of 115 gr 9mm FMJ bullets. The goal is to use those. Don't care about being perfectly reliable, concealable, or "practical". This will be a toy.

Options are as follows in order of preference for the moment

1) 357 Sig. Plan to load long (1.26") and use regular old 115 gr 9x19 bullets. Loading long works around the short neck issue and allows more room for more powder. Brass isn't too hard to come by or can be formed from 40 S&W. Barrel may need to be throated. How close to 9x25 does this get me?

2) 9x19. Just noticed that there are 9x19 barrels available for the G20. Could perhaps load these long, and get some extra velocity. Might be enough to scratch the itch. Already have all components, and don't have to mess around with bottle neck cartridges. Don't know how much extra length I can do, and still have proper tension on the bullet. Barrel may need to be throated.

3) 9x25. Probably the ultimate 9mm blaster round. Requires dies I don't have. Would rather not have to form 10mm brass as it's a little harder to come by but I do already have some.

4) 38 SC/9x23. Would rather not do this as I don't want to have to buy brass. 9x23 Winchester brass is nice and thick though.

A few things bug me. I still have all my fingers and would like to keep them at their current locations and fully functional. You can find postings of "data", but it's really just people's velocity with no idea what the pressures are like. Is there any legit information about pressures with the 9x25?

Is there a powder such that it's theoretically impossible to get enough powder in the case to have excessive pressure? I know that such powders exist for 9x19. For instance, there are published loads for 9x19 using Unique such that the case is completely filled. Pretty sure you can't get enough Unique in a 9x19 to blow it up (don't quote me on that). Accurate No 9 sounds promising for 357 SIG as there are compressed published loads (prevents set back too). However, my plan is to load long and fit some extra powder in there so there won't be published data for that. I doubt Accurate will answer that question for me (understandably).

There are questionable strength 10mm and 40 S&W cases out there (think early Federal). 357 SIG doesn't suffer from this as far as I can tell. 9x19 is a strong case in general and quality brass is easy to come by. Clark's experiments provide some insight into case strength. For those that haven't read them, his experiments indicate that 40 S&W is actually stronger than 10mm, and that 9x19 is a strong case. It's the best info I've ever come across. Based on that, I am more inclined to neck 40 S&W down to 357 SIG, than 10mm to 9x25 Dillon.

9x25 Dillon may still win out in the end.

 

[jerkface11]

If you want noisy and flashy 9x25 is the king of the hill.

 

[atblis]

What I am wondering is how much case capacity I give up with 357 SIG at a 1.26" OAL versus 9x25 Dillon? It might not be that much. Will depend on bullet length.

 

[atblis]

Just bought 9x19 barrel for the Glock 20 out of curiosity.

 

[PO2Hammer]

What about the magazines?
You're going to have to modify them.
Even maxed out, 9mm is going to be underwhelming in the 20.

 

[ATLDave]

Well, a fair number of people run 9mm major in IPSC/USPSA open-class guns. They are out there way past SAAMI specs or any published load data. Go talk with some of those guys about their recipes and how their guns are set up to handle the pounding. And then understand that you are on your own and assuming ALL risk.

FWIW, I've seen a couple of case head separations in 9mm major Glocks-based open guns. Fingers were singed and mags ejected, but guns and fingers remained operable.

 

[TfflHndn]

If you want noisy and flashy, .357 SIG loaded with Power Pistol is about as noisy and flashy as anything I shoot. And PP is hard to kaboom a pistol with. I heartily endorse the combo. Stay safe, have fun!

 

[W.E.G.]

If you want a blasty autopistol, there are few that can out-blast the 7.62x25.

Get a CZ-52 or a Tokarev TT.
Both guns are actually chambered for the round, so function should not be a problem.

You can shoot it until you get bored with it (which will be fairly soon - so don't over-buy on ammo), then you can sell it to somebody else who wants to play with oddball stuff.

Both guns qualify for C&R too.

 

[atblis]

I've spent plenty of time behind the trigger of a CZ52. Totally not interested in 7.62x25. Surplus ammo is gone. Not going to load for it. Non standard brass and bullets.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I shot a 9x25 out of my G20 for a while. Lots of fun, loud, accurate, but it always felt as if someone was smacking the frame with a hammer when I fired. It is a harsh solid hit when the gun goes off. I sent it packing and went back to 10mm.

 

[Walkalong]

I sent it packing and went back to 10mm.

My thoughts exactly, if you need more power, get a bigger gun.

 

[Devonai]

Is there a powder such that it's theoretically impossible to get enough powder in the case to have excessive pressure?

Given an infinite number of reloaders reloading an infinite number of cartridges, the answer could only be no.

 

[Bovice]

I shot 357 SIG for about a month and then the novelty wore off.

Don't you think 10mm would satisfy your curiosity?

 

[atblis]

Been doing the 10mm thing for quite a while. Got 10k 9mm bullet sitting around.

 

[rodregier]

I recall a necked down version of 10mm to .224 diameter projectiles. That would be exciting.

 

[Glockula]

I don't load 9mm but blue dot is a good high flash high recoil powder that will push your 115 grainers nice and fast. I would think blue dot would fill the case nicely too.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I believe that round was called the "224 boz" for some reason.

If you have 10k of 9mm bullets, get a 9x25. Have some fun. I think after burning off the 10k of bullets you will have reached the same conclusion as us and send the 9x25 on its way.

Give it a try and lets us know how it goes. I can just about guarantee you will be the loudest gun on the range unless the 357 Max guys or 30 Carbine revolver shooters show up.

 

[atblis]

Got some Lone Wolf barrels in. The all import case support comparison. It would appear the factory Glock barrel isn't too much worse than the Lone Wolf barrel in terms of feed ramp intrusion. The Glock chamber is way too loose IMO. The 357 SIG barrel appears to have excellent case support.

With 115 gr bullets seated to 1.26" OAL, I can fit 15.4 gr of No 9. The bullets are not touching the rifling. Hmm.

 

[gamestalker]

Most of what I load for any handgun, is nasty full tilt jacketed, with large charges of slow burning powders, so I might be able to help you.

THE FOLLOWING DATA EXCEEDS MAXIMUM PUBLISHED LOADS. THE HIGH ROAD ACCEPTS NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR INJURIES OR DAMAGE THAT COULD RESULT BY USING THIS INFORMATION. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Blue Dot, AA#9, Longshot and a number of other slow burning powders that publish large charges, and produces maximum velocities have often produce loud and flashy performance, not too mention full tilt velocities. I've been very successful working both Longshot, Blue dot, and #9 significantly beyond maximum published charges and with no visible sign of excessive pressures. I mean, I can certainly tell I'm shooting a full house load, but beyond the chrony results and heavy recoil, they have been surprisingly very accurate, and they perform completely normal. I've experienced a couple mouths that have had very fine splitting, barely visible though, none have just opened up like a bannana. But those were also with brass that had been loaded multiple times.

GS

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Id probably go 357 sig as its about the only one i can find once fired brass at the range for. Still a couple local cops that use them and leave there brass. The rest of them are tough to find brass for.

 

[LeonCarr]

9 x 25 Dillon puts them all to shame.

To minimize the "frame-smacking" described, a full length guide rod and stiffer springs would probably help. Many spring manufacturers offer several different spring weights in one package to allow you to tune the individual handgun. I would go with the heaviest spring weight that still allows the slide to lock back on the last round.

Trying not to completely veer off topic, but the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine is easily the loudest handgun I have ever shot, and has the most muzzle flash too .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[atblis]

[Disclaimer]No Glocks were harmed in the making of this post (despite my best efforts)[/Disclaimer]

First shot of the day In retrospect, that's an incredibly crappy looking piece of brass that I probably should not have loaded. No damage to me or the gun.

The 357 Sig loaded to 10mm OAL experiment went much better. Does AA9 generally benefit from a magnum primer? I'll post up some numbers later with more commentary, but AA9 behaved erratically up until I got to my max loads. The last/maximum powder charge string of the day yielded 1550 fps with an impressively low velocity spread. Still more room for powder (not much). Hmm. After the 40 S&W debacle, not so sure how I want to proceed.

 

[atblis]

Also, anybody have any comments regarding the use of casehead expansion as an indicator of pressure? I am using a barrel that has a better supported/tighter chamber than a factory Glock barrel.

 

[Buck13]

[Disclaimer] Does AA9 generally benefit from a magnum primer?

I've used #9 at near-starting and upper-middle charges in 10 mm with Winchester large pistol primers, which are "for standard and magnum loads," whatever that implies. Didn't chrono them, but they seemed consistent in terms of recoil and cycling (from a Tanfoglio, not a Glock) and didn't leave much powder residue at any load level.

 

[ATLDave]

I had the same experience as Buck13 using CCI non-magnum primers. AA#9 did not seem to require magnum primers to light right on up.