"Glock Blocking" - a Student News Editorial

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It occurs to me...

A popular aphorism is "be courteous, be polite, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
From there...
Be aware that everyone who is courteous and polite may also have a plan to kill you.

Just another way to illustrate the absurdity of expecting everyone to cooperate with the "no weapons" meme.
 
My only reply is that in situations such as this is really is not about the “odds”, but more about the consequences, the price you pay if you aren't ready to cope with such a situation if it arises.

Good show, Spectre. The above bit I thought was particularly well crafted. The art of changing hearts and minds is formed in wit and intelligence as well as poetry. Approved for transmission.
 
I'd keep my reply really short.

To the Author of the Editorial 'Glock Blocking:'

Please justify your assumption that an individual intent on mass murder would obey a sign prohibiting the carrying of firearms.

Love,
Me

P.S. I don't really love you
 
My response:

If [strike]concealed carry[/strike] police officers were allowed on JMU’s campus, any student, faculty or staff member might very well be within firing range at any given point. Silence on this issue might be taken as consent.
 
That little anti-gun screed just goes to show that education doesn't often produce anything approaching intelligent thought.

As for the rest of us, it's obvious that we don't believe that murderers obey all the wonderful laws designed to protect us from ourselves. Thankfully!
 
Skirting the tiresome legal arguments and the idea of preventing a violent culture, SCCC focuses on the idea that, by carrying guns, we will never have to use them — like an arms race.

Obviously this author is more than a little confused. SCCC does not focus on the idea that a carrying a gun will mean you will never have to use it. That would be patently absurd because a gun (ie. an inanimate object) is not a magic talisman that automatically makes you safe. Similarly, a no guns sign is not a magic talisman that creates a force field that prevents anyone with a gun from passing it. But that should be obvious.

For a group that uses a massive amount of statistics in its arguments, it’s curious that SCCC finds its impetus in statistical outliers — though the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings were horrific, are they truly valid bases for widespread policy?

It's also curious that gun control advocates find their impetus in statistical outliers - though the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings were horrific, are they truly valid bases for widespread policy?

In fact, given the fact that 12,682 people were killed in the United States in 2005 (out of a population of 296,507,061, which translates to .004% of the population) by people using firearms in a homicide or legal intervention according to the CDC, it's curious that gun control advocates consider themselves to have any valid base for widespread policy at all. Especially when you consider the fact that 45,343 people were killed in the United States in 2005 unintentionally in motor vehicle deaths (there were 789 unintentional firearms death in 2005).

Given that, and the fact that numerous other things that cause far more deaths in the United States every year than firearms (even when suicides are included), one would think that anyone seriously concerned about public safety would be investing more time, effort, and money into ensuring that cars, for example, don’t accidentally kill people.

The scenario SCCC paints is compelling: helpless students slaughtered because they cannot arm themselves. But how does that stack up against thousands of armed students and faculty on a daily basis?

Well, considering that thousands of armed citizens with concealed weapons go about their lives on a daily basis all over the nation, and blood has yet to run on the streets, and OK Corral shootouts over petty disagreements have yet to materialize, I think it stacks up pretty well. But I wouldn’t let the truth- the fact that despite fantasies of such by gun control advocates regarding concealed carry and castle doctrine laws dozens, if not hundreds, of times are still just fantasies— get in the way.

Don’t forget that the ultimate reason to carry a gun is to be able to fire it.

Well, I would be lying if I said that shooting wasn’t fun. But no decent human being carries a gun itching to shoot someone. And no intelligent human being enjoys spending thousands of dollars on lawyers to ensure that he is not sent to jail for defending himself. As John Farnam wisely stated, “Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable.”

Some are less than thrilled with our university’s current gun policy, which prohibits anyone from carrying a gun on campus. On the other hand, many are uncomfortable with the thought of allowing loaded, lethal weapons on campus.

What is strange is that last time I checked, I never saw anyone argue that campus or other police officers should be disarmed. I also never saw anyone argue that no one should call 911 in the event of a shooting.

Make no mistake about it. Gun control advocates often have little issue with the thought of allowing loaded, lethal weapons on campus (or anywhere else, for that matter). They just have an issue with ordinary citizens having one.

If concealed carry were allowed on JMU’s campus, any student, faculty or staff member might very well be within firing range at any given point. Silence on this issue might be taken as consent.

Again, I have not seen anyone argue that police officers should be disarmed. Because until they are, any student and faulty or staff member IS already within firing range at any given point.
 
http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...news-091008-asu-armed-robberies.61f5e5a0.html

TEMPE -- Students at Arizona State University are on high alert after a pair of armed robberies on campus happened within days of each other.

The most recent incident was just after midnight on Sept. 5. Police said two robbers took a student's wallet and cell phone.

It happened outside Manzanita Hall on the Tempe campus.

The two men reportedly told the student that they had a gun.

A similar incident took place a few days early outside Hayden Library.

ASU police said the robberies do not appear to be connected.

The crimes have some students on edge.

"It kind of makes me feel uneasy," said one student.

The suspect in the Sept. 1 robbery is described as thin, white man in his 20s. He's about 5 feet 9 inches tall and has dirty blond hair. Police said the suspect also has a pronounced Adam's apple.

The suspects in second incident are described as black men. One was heavy set; the other was about 6 feet tall.

Anyone with information about either robbery should contact the ASU Police Department.

edit: No private citizen can legally carry on a college campus in Arizona. There was a pre-meditated shooting at a community college here a couple months back too. Nobody was killed though.
 
Mass shootings are statistical outliers, and shouldn't necessarily be the basis of an argument for concealed carry on campus.

That said, there are plenty of other reasons that concealed carry should be allowed and many of them make a better argument. Rape, armed robbery, and assault and battery happen on college campuses every day. Don't let the argument be framed in terms of "we need concealed carry to stop mass murderers".
Amen. Let's focus on the everyday needs. I carry on campus for the same reasons I carry off campus. Simple as that.
 
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I feel ccw is a good thing if it is reasonable and practical...The break down is when things go out of control, and all you folks that talk about standing or hiding and shooting the criminal for the sake of the good really need to truly understand the complexity of carring a weapon and taking the responsibility for it rather than feel all should have that right...

Talk about some folks just not getting it, reminds me of the movie "Tombstone" we all know what happened there, or maybe we don't.

Move to AZ like a lot of people have, because they want to carry :what:

:uhoh:;)
 
The Debate Continues...Two More Articles

Two more opinion pieces in the campus newspaper. One pro, One con.
Both were printed side by side in a fair and equal manner. I'm impressed with the "Breeze" for it's impartiality so far.

CONCEALED CARRY ON CAMPUS
After recent school shootings, current campus gun policies have drawn fire



GUEST COLUMN: More guns are not the answer


By Barbie Spitz, member of JMU Students for a Democratic Society
Posted on September 15, 2008

It would be foolish to think that JMU students would silently consent to allow the carrying of concealed weapons on campus. I do not foresee such a policy change in the near future, but I will not wait until it is too late to make a statement. While I predict that the students here will not stand for any kind of policy change pushed by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), I do not fully trust the administration of JMU to listen to students on this issue.

Two years ago, 81 percent of students voted to include a $9 fee in tuition to fund clean energy initiatives. The higher powers at JMU not only refused to create the “green fund,” but raised our fees by more than $300 anyway. This goes without mentioning the atrocious and inexplicable changes in our beloved campus hangout, Taylor Down Under, which few students seem to approve of.

The answer to gun violence is not more guns. The victims of Columbine and Virginia Tech were not killed because they were unarmed. They were killed because a few troubled young men slipped through the cracks of society and were driven to violence. Allowing students on campus to carry firearms would not make such troubled individuals less violent.

SCCC claims that guns belong in the hands of potential victims who have the right to defend themselves and that current gun laws serve the purpose of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. But the fact is that even the current restrictions on obtaining a firearm are insufficient. Let us remember that Seung-Hui Cho obtained his gun legally, and the Columbine shooters’ shotguns were bought at a gun show.

Even if people were given a greater opportunity to defend themselves with guns, it would not stop people from being killed. Think about it: If someone kills another person in defense of their own life, their attacker is dead. A life would be saved, but one would be lost, too. It is not our job to determine whose life is more valuable.

This is not to disrespect the family members and friends of gun victims. My aunt was murdered with a handgun 10 years ago and, after years of wishing her killer dead, I have only recently learned to view him as another human being. I am only asking that we remember that those who use guns for violence are people, too, and their families suffer as well.

I also know for a fact that even if my aunt were armed that fateful day, she would not have used a gun to defend herself.

Allowing guns on campus will only breed more opportunities for violence. The answer is not defense, but acknowledgement of the root causes of gun violence. We need to provide more help for troubled teens, question the values and activities of our society that cause so many to turn to violence and make more room for those who might not fit into the conventional culture of today’s society.

Defending yourself from guns by using a gun? Talk about a band-aid solution to a bullet wound.

Barbie Spitz is a senior sociology major and africana studies minor. For more information, visit studentsforgunfreeschools.org.


GUEST COLUMN: Concealed carry combats an unlikely but dangerous threat

Daniel Dales, campus leader, Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

The Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings were two instances that received heavy media attention. While these events are relatively infrequent, widespread attention on the issue should not be overlooked. There are many other instances that have not received such attention. In fact, there have been seven campus shootings since the incident at Virginia Tech last April. Regardless of the number of shootings, any incident that causes students on a public campus to fear for their safety absolutely warrants widespread attention.

SCCC advocates concealed carry on campus for personal protection by licensed adults over the age of 21. We have never stated that we do not intend to use our weapons, as the reason we carry them is in the extreme event that we would need to use them.

We argue that incidents involving guns will not increase on campus, because permit-holders are trained to pull their firearms only in the event that the lives of them and their peers are in immediate danger. We affirm that the increase in firearms on campus will never be known unless a shooting were to occur. Concealed means exactly that: concealed. In a perfect world, we hope to never need to pull our weapons, but we welcome the security of knowing we have them if we need them.

A recent editorial published in The Breeze stated “If concealed carry were allowed on JMU’s campus, any student, faculty or staff member might very well be within firing range at any given point.” This comment insinuates that students need to fear permit-holders.

SCCC would like to ask the author of this editorial if they are scared to go to Wal-Mart because of all the permit-holders that carry their guns there daily? The writer may be surprised to know the number of permit-holders that carry in stores every day around them. There are plenty stories across the nation of permit-holders using their weapons for personal protection both in the home and in public.

However, stories of permit-holders abusing their right to carry by using their weapons offensively are few and far between; surely not as frequent as opponents of concealed carry would like us to believe. Again, concealed means concealed; no one will ever know we are carrying a weapon unless the day comes that a shooter comes on campus and we need to pull our weapon.

On that day, those in opposition may be happy we are there.

daniel dales is a senior biology major and criminal justice minor. For more information, visit concealedcampus.org.
 
Even if people were given a greater opportunity to defend themselves with guns, it would not stop people from being killed. Think about it: If someone kills another person in defense of their own life, their attacker is dead. A life would be saved, but one would be lost, too. It is not our job to determine whose life is more valuable.

Ooooookaaay...

Barbie Spitz is a senior sociology major and africana studies minor.

I'm shocked!
 
My thought on seeing that statement was that someone shooting in defense is shooting to stop the attacker from doing something, so it's not a "value" judgment at all. The defender obviously feels their life is "valuable" enough to fight for, but in that situation the "value" of the attackers life is irrelevant. All that matters is what the attacker is doing.
 
Even if people were given a greater opportunity to defend themselves with guns, it would not stop people from being killed. Think about it: If someone kills another person in defense of their own life, their attacker is dead. A life would be saved, but one would be lost, too. It is not our job to determine whose life is more valuable.

This is not to disrespect the family members and friends of gun victims. My aunt was murdered with a handgun 10 years ago and, after years of wishing her killer dead, I have only recently learned to view him as another human being. I am only asking that we remember that those who use guns for violence are people, too, and their families suffer as well.

I also know for a fact that even if my aunt were armed that fateful day, she would not have used a gun to defend herself.

Ah-ha. Herein, she reveals that she has completely not grasped the situation. She views someone defending their life as meting out vengeance, instead of simply protecting themselves. I believe she has a serious case of misunderstanding and projection here - she assumes that just because *she* wished vengeance upon her aunt's killer, then *everyone* who wants a gun must be out to kill and destroy without an ounce of forgiveness or understanding of humanity.

I don't think it's coincidence that so many anti-gun advocates experienced gun-related trauma. It's colored their logic to an astonishing degree.

Another point: she's assuming a 1-for-1, even-death scenario. She's forgetting that if the guy that started everything *wins*, he's liable to not only kill the 1 innocent, but dozens - maybe now, maybe later if he escapes.

A life would be saved, but one would be lost, too. It is not our job to determine whose life is more valuable.

I really, really hate to bring up WWII in a discussion for fear of invoking Godwin's Law, but...would she have said the same thing about the Jews defending their lives in the Warsaw ghetto?! This sort of abstract thinking is great in the warm & cozy world of academia, but absolutely terrible in practice.

Perhaps she wouldn't mind if the responding police shrugged their shoulders, said, "Hey, it isn't our job to make big moral decisions, not at this rate of pay," and sat back to wait out a school shooting?
 
For a group that uses a massive amount of statistics in its arguments, it’s curious that SCCC finds its impetus in statistical outliers — though the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings were horrific, are they truly valid bases for widespread policy?

I find it curious that when something like the VT shootings occurs, gun grabbers use what is an isolated event to call for widespread policy implementations, in the form of regulating firearms and firearms rights. Kind of a double standard, eh?
 
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