Glock vs. 1911 1000 Round Match in OK 10/20/2007

[Richard.Howe]

The way I see it, the Glocks were the first losers. Call a spade a spade. 1/3 of the Glocks failed to fire 10 rounds.

My take away is that, if you have a Glock, shoot the heck out of it. If there are problems, they'll show up early. If they don't, you'll probably have a low-maintenance, high-reliability sidearm for years to come.

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

Glock 21 R 2 Slide lock with mag
Glock 17 R 2 Failure to Feed
Kimber Tac II F 6 Double Feed
Colt 1911 F 8 Failure to feed
Glock 22 F 8 Stove Pipe
Glock 17 R 8 Mag failure to lock in
Glock 35 R 49 Failure to Feed
Glock 17 F 980 Sight off

These are the failures that bother me for they bring into question the ability of these pistols to be used for self-defense. Amazing that so many guns just were so inadequate for the self-defense purpose.

NASCAR_MAN

 

[AndyC]

Waiting for the feds to work my appeal for my 1911 - NICS said that I haven't lived in TX for the required 90 days (as if 2 1/2 years living here fulltime is somehow less than 90 days!)

 

[chieftain]

I agree. I am new to semi-auto pistols (8 months). After reading on the net how everybody else, everywhere else, with every kind of gun shoots all day long without a single mishap, I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't seem to get through 100 rounds without some kind of mishap (failure to feed, failure to fire, dropped mag, etc).

This one has been a real eye-opener about what it takes to make a gun go bang every single time, how very few people can truly make that happen, and how everyone else (most everyone, actually) just lies about it.

edit: maybe "lies" is too harsh a word. How about "ignores the truth", or "deceives themselves"?

Think of it like folks talking about their Gas Mileage. It ain't exactly a lie, but we tend to ignore the facts.

Keeping a weapon running over a long number of rounds is not done by folks who don't clean and maintain their weapons religiously. That by the way is the majority of shooters. Very few of us are religious about cleaning and maintenance. This is not about keeping a gun looking pretty either.

For instance. I doubt any revolver would last a1000 round course of fire without cleaning. But most any quality revolver is more reliable when cleaned for defense purposes than most semi Auto's.

But many folks like to brag about the reliability of their weapons. You will note, that as we get closer to the shoot more folks will want more caveat's to the shoot. In almost every case they are trying to justify the inability of their chosen platform to make the 1000 rounds.

This is fun. It is informative, and could be useful. But only for those that take from it what is actually said. Not what they will rationalize the results to their own satisfaction to mean.

Real history, is not as kind to many advertising campaigns that many folks base their reason to buy those products on.

For the record. I believe the two most 'proved' weapons in this are the Glock 17 and the Colt 1911A1. Some copies of the 1911 and varients, but not many, not even the high end customs.

I believe two other pistols have "proved" themselves in 'real life' around the world but are rarely tested or questioned. P35 Hipower and the SIG 226. I am thinking of running one of them in this contest. The CZ 75 might fit in here but we in the West haven't really been running them inmasse long enough to get the necessary input.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[danthegunman]

I can't weld on a Glock...LOL
Semper Fi Dan
John14:6

 

[Grump]

I posted a while back:

I'm a mere observer in this, won't have the free time and am spending all my ammo money next year in other pursuits. Even though I won't be there, I'd like to see other makes such as SIG and H&K added, so long as there are at least three of each. I understand that the number of shooters would go up and the logistics can get more crowded, but good planning and execution should make it work OK.

And our good host replied:

While what you say is true, you haven't ever run a match have you? I take it from your post, that because of a design defect in having an overly long thread has resulted in you missing some of the previous information. Just how do you propose that I get the sample sizes you wanted (3 of each make, but oddly not of each model)? Keep in mind that participants come to these matches at their own expense, on inclination, and only if the match date matches their personal schedules.

Gosh, Wally, I've only run about two dozen, introducing IPSC/IDPA-type shooting to my then-local club about 1988 or so, some conventional Highpower Rifle events, and even running two small startup commercial bowling pin matches that got the ball rolling for the local pawn shop/indoor range outfit.

Since I'm not seeing any restrictions on Glock models or limiting the 1911s to only full-size, single-stack units, it would seem fairly simple to reserve six slots each year to a pair of other makes, like the H&K/SIG participation some posters have expressed interest in (generally calling for one or the other). You *could* go for specific types such as only USPs one year and their current P series another year. SIG seems to be divided only into its P series and their more CCW-type 230s, with the newer ones just having revised trigger groups.

Anyway, just announce each year's added two make/models with cancel/refund rights if you don't get at least 3 apiece. They only complication I see is having more shooters and putting two more rows in your datasheet.

Good use of staffing, supervision, and relays can keep the rounds going downrange almost all the time. You ARE using at least two shooting bays, I hope?

 

[AndyC]

Update - got my RIA 1911 tactical - might make it to the event after all

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Grump, you are funny. Proper staff and supervision? You may have those options at a commercial range, but this ain't one of those. If you want to offer your services and be part of my staff to be supervised, come on out. Or maybe you can provide me with the necessary staff?

I am still interested in how you propose to get the necessary sample sizes from volunteer shooters. You still haven't read the thread, have you? The match in April is open to other platforms. No need to reserve any slots for any platform. Out of 20 respondees, I don't have any one platform/model duplicated more than once.

 

[SuperNaut]

Great thread, and idea. I definitely want to get something like this going locally.

1K Run Whatcha Brung.

 

[SA Friday]

Glock 21 R 2 Slide lock with mag
Glock 17 R 2 Failure to Feed
Kimber Tac II F 6 Double Feed
Colt 1911 F 8 Failure to feed
Glock 22 F 8 Stove Pipe
Glock 17 R 8 Mag failure to lock in
Glock 35 R 49 Failure to Feed
Glock 17 F 980 Sight off

These are the failures that bother me for they bring into question the ability of these pistols to be used for self-defense. Amazing that so many guns just were so inadequate for the self-defense purpose.

Come on, easily half or more of these could be the result of the shooter and not the gun. The only one that bothers me is going to a shooting match of any type with the sights off??? but even that could have been the shooter. I shoot both Glocks and 1911/2011 models in USPSA, thousands of rounds a year, and they are all more reliable than this. I may have missed this info (I skipped like 7 pages of stuff, but are these just people off the street, pleasure shooters, competition hardened, LE, or what? This could only show a lack of training, really.)

 

[jlficken]

Thanks for the info. It is very hard to compare any guns that aren't in their stock form. I got new barrels for my Glock's because I reload and want to be easier on my brass (especially the .40). That said my carry G23 is using an aftermarket barrel but it has had hundreds of rounds through it and is flawless with factory ammo. With reloads if I do my part it functions just as well. I also have a Kimber Ultra CDP II that has been flawless with factory ammo as well. When making changes to the gun it is very easy to mess up a good thing and destroy reliability. Trying to do the competition with factory ammo would be fun if you could find someone to sponsor it but it will always be an apple to oranges comparision since 1911's are manufactured by so many companies and in so many variations and price ranges.

 

[Hoser]

I shoot both Glocks and 1911/2011 models in USPSA, thousands of rounds a year, and they are all more reliable than this.

But everyone knows IPSC shooters shoot watered down ammo and use raceguns with scopes and muzzle breaks. That and have horrible tactics.

If they were to use real guns with real world ammo, they would be in for a rude awakening.

Smile Sean, I still love you.

 

[AndyC]

The only one that bothers me is going to a shooting match of any type with the sights off???

I think what it means is that the sight fell off at around the 980th shot - not that the shooter just arrived at the match with no sight. Most of the others strike me as magazine-related.

 

[chieftain]

If they were to use real guns with real world ammo, they would be in for a rude awakening.

I think you would be in for a rude awakening to discover most USPSA/IPSC shooters DO SHOOT THEIR REAL WORLD GUNS VERY WELL TOO.

Sheesh.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Rinspeed]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[Hoser]

I was just giving SA Friday a hard time. We shoot together often. At least we did when he was stationed here.

Dont believe me? Look up USPSA # L-2598

 

[Geo.Az]

I Am Here Learning

I am not an expert. I do not do matches. I am bias - 1911s and I smoke randall 45 lites. what more can I say of any value. ( just a statement )

 

[XDKingslayer]

I think this is a pretty cool match. I'd love to attend one with my XD just to see how it does.

All you guys saying your pistols are more reliable than these onse, I'd LOVE to see you step up to the plate. You all say your pistols are more reliable, but I'm sorry, shooting 100 rounds at the range, going home and cleaning it, IS NOT TORTURE.

 

[Firepower!]

how wierd- good last few posts here to clarify mis-information.