So, I was thinking about this the other day. Many people argue that Glocks don't have an external safety- but don't the majority of revolvers lack one also? There's the trigger pull issue, but Glocks may be ugly as heck, but I guess guns and guns, and I was thinking maybe I should stop bashing Glocks until I actually try one out. Until then- they're still ugly.
Glocks and revolvers
- Thread starter Yohan
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Nightcrawler
Member
Well, I think they're not pretty, but they're not hideous, either. The 10mm/45 frames just don't fit my hand very well, though, and I can't MAKE them fit. The old ones without the finger grooves weren't so bad, but the new ones just don't work for me. I don't like the trigger pull, though I found the trigger on a Springfield XD40 to be much more agreeable.
4thHorseman
Member
The "safety" on a revolver is the long heavy trigger pull. Not at all like Glocks, short light trigger pull. Glocks also have a trigger type safety in the trigger mechinism that revolvers don't have.
I have never heard of an accidental discharge from a double action modern revolver. Never. I don't see how one can be possiable either. Everytime I hear on the news an accidential shooting with a revolver and it "accidentally went off" is bull hockey. It just doesn't happen. It is a concentrated predetermined action to pull the trigger so the hammer drops on a revolver in double action mode.
I have never heard of an accidental discharge from a double action modern revolver. Never. I don't see how one can be possiable either. Everytime I hear on the news an accidential shooting with a revolver and it "accidentally went off" is bull hockey. It just doesn't happen. It is a concentrated predetermined action to pull the trigger so the hammer drops on a revolver in double action mode.
BamBam
Member
Yohan,
Then you wouldn't be a typical Glock basher.
The Glock "Safe Action" trigger system (to me at least) feels somewhere between a SA and DA. The firing pin isn't retracted untill the trigger is pulled but travel is much shorter than with a DA.
It takes a few magazines to get used to but, to millions of people, it's not a problem.
Ugly? Some consider a Hummer ugly.
Come to the Dark Side!
Most Glock arguments that I read are whether the Glock trigger is a DA or SA. What does it matter what it is called with regard to safety? The bottom line is exactly what you said. How much pressure does it take on the trigger to make the pistol fire.
dude
Member
A Glock is the same saftey-wise as a revolver..............if you carry the revolver with the hammer cocked back! (and yes, I've owned and shot a Glock)
stevelyn
Member
Glocks have three passive safeties. To fire one requires, like any other handgun, a finger mashing the trigger. The most important safety device is resting inside the thick bone container between your ears.
The beauty of a Glock is that when you need it, you don't have to fumble with a safety or take any other action other than drawing and shooting. In a life-threatening situation, this is an advantage.
If one is uncomfortable with the trigger pull (they are 5#) you can have an 8# New York trigger installed, or a New York Plus at about 10-12#. If OTOH you are comfortable and confident w/ the Glock trigger and would like to squeeze out a little more accuracy, a 3 1/2# is also available along w/ titanium strikers and Ti striker safety blocks. I'm not certain of what value the Ti safety block provides, but the striker being lighter reduces locktime due to having to overcome less inertia to start forward travel. Slam fires aren't an issue since the safety block has this covered.
The beauty of a Glock is that when you need it, you don't have to fumble with a safety or take any other action other than drawing and shooting. In a life-threatening situation, this is an advantage.
If one is uncomfortable with the trigger pull (they are 5#) you can have an 8# New York trigger installed, or a New York Plus at about 10-12#. If OTOH you are comfortable and confident w/ the Glock trigger and would like to squeeze out a little more accuracy, a 3 1/2# is also available along w/ titanium strikers and Ti striker safety blocks. I'm not certain of what value the Ti safety block provides, but the striker being lighter reduces locktime due to having to overcome less inertia to start forward travel. Slam fires aren't an issue since the safety block has this covered.
LeonCarr
Member
The Glock does not have a "hammer that cocks back". It is safer than a double action revolver. The firing pin is not "active" until the trigger is pulled.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
bad_dad_brad
Member
A glock trigger is not at all like a cocked DA or SA revolver trigger. It is unique however. Not to belabor the internal safety devices of the Glock, because it has been explained before, and they work.
But what about the actual trigger? Well first, if you look at a Glock, and the trigger is pulled back to the frame, it is completely safe. It can not fire. This is a Glock that is un-chambered and is immediately recognized as such (of course, it could also be a rare dud round loaded that did not fire).
Second, when partially cocked and chambered the Glock has a trigger within the trigger. Just brushing the side of the Glock trigger accidently will not cause it to fire (for instance when holstering it). Try that with a cocked revolver and it will go boom.
Third, the Glock trigger has about 1/2 inch of take up when pulled, which is completing the full cocking of the internal striker. Now at complete takeup we can finally compare a cocked revolver with a Glock trigger. Even then, the stock Glock trigger offers more resistance than the average SA or cocked DA revolver.
I am sitting here right now dry firing a G19 and a cocked DA SP101 for comparison. Two different worlds as far as the trigger is concerned.
Comparing Glocks with revolvers is as common as comparing apples and oranges.
A more viable comparison would be a tuned trigger on a DAO revolver with a Kahr semi-automatic. That was the intent of the manufacturer (Kahr) to produce a semi-automatic that had a trigger pull as stated.
But what about the actual trigger? Well first, if you look at a Glock, and the trigger is pulled back to the frame, it is completely safe. It can not fire. This is a Glock that is un-chambered and is immediately recognized as such (of course, it could also be a rare dud round loaded that did not fire).
Second, when partially cocked and chambered the Glock has a trigger within the trigger. Just brushing the side of the Glock trigger accidently will not cause it to fire (for instance when holstering it). Try that with a cocked revolver and it will go boom.
Third, the Glock trigger has about 1/2 inch of take up when pulled, which is completing the full cocking of the internal striker. Now at complete takeup we can finally compare a cocked revolver with a Glock trigger. Even then, the stock Glock trigger offers more resistance than the average SA or cocked DA revolver.
I am sitting here right now dry firing a G19 and a cocked DA SP101 for comparison. Two different worlds as far as the trigger is concerned.
Comparing Glocks with revolvers is as common as comparing apples and oranges.
A more viable comparison would be a tuned trigger on a DAO revolver with a Kahr semi-automatic. That was the intent of the manufacturer (Kahr) to produce a semi-automatic that had a trigger pull as stated.
TRYING TO RECALL
I don't ever remember having to "fumble with a safety".
Odd, ay?
I have, however, been involved with a number of "I've accidently shot my Glock (and myself)" situations.
Fumbling with entire gun?
Oh my what have I done...................
I don't ever remember having to "fumble with a safety".
Odd, ay?
I have, however, been involved with a number of "I've accidently shot my Glock (and myself)" situations.
Fumbling with entire gun?
Oh my what have I done...................
BamBam
Member
Ummmm.......
Have you ever owned or shot a revolver?
If so, why would you post such inaccurate information?
dude
Member
yes (lots), and with the knowledge and expierence with both..........I feel a Glock is just as 'safe' as a carrying around revolver with it's hammer cocked.
......where is this inaccurate information you have a problem with??
......where is this inaccurate information you have a problem with??
Its innaccurate in that it doesn't at represent the situation. There is no trigger block system on a revolver as there is on a glock. The mechanisms to fire are engaged on a revolver whereas they are not on a glock. The trigger pull is lighter on a cocked revolver than it is on a glock. It simply isn't comparable.
BamBam
Member
Dude,
I hope I didn't sound too harsh.......I looked at some of your posts and you seem to be a straigh-up guy.
A cocked revolver is "ready to go"; the hammer/firing pin spring is compressed and only a few pounds of trigger pull is required to fire the weapon. Also, only a couple of millimeters of trigger travel are required to do so (whatever the "creep" is). Just dropping the revolver could cause a discharge.
On a Glock, the firing pin spring is not compressed and the firing pin safety is blocking the pin. It will not discharge if dropped. Trigger pull is about eight pounds. Trigger travel (stroke) is probably 15 mm (I'll measure later).
I'm not saying that you haven't, but people should detail strip a Glock slide and understand how it works before they decide that it isn't "safe".
I wouldn't dream of holstering a cocked revolver. I've holstered a chambered Glock literally thousands of times.
I hope I didn't sound too harsh.......I looked at some of your posts and you seem to be a straigh-up guy.
A cocked revolver is "ready to go"; the hammer/firing pin spring is compressed and only a few pounds of trigger pull is required to fire the weapon. Also, only a couple of millimeters of trigger travel are required to do so (whatever the "creep" is). Just dropping the revolver could cause a discharge.
On a Glock, the firing pin spring is not compressed and the firing pin safety is blocking the pin. It will not discharge if dropped. Trigger pull is about eight pounds. Trigger travel (stroke) is probably 15 mm (I'll measure later).
I'm not saying that you haven't, but people should detail strip a Glock slide and understand how it works before they decide that it isn't "safe".
I wouldn't dream of holstering a cocked revolver. I've holstered a chambered Glock literally thousands of times.
sm
member
What WS2 said, both times.
I don't bash what tool fits another that allows criteria.
Glocks don't like me .
Two , NIB Glocks. First gun the trigger is broken. Second gun I open box and the front night sight is off, rattling around in box.
LEO's they belonged two just laughed Just asked I that didn't handled the squad car --they wanted to make it home,in one peice
I don't bash what tool fits another that allows criteria.
Glocks don't like me .
Two , NIB Glocks. First gun the trigger is broken. Second gun I open box and the front night sight is off, rattling around in box.
LEO's they belonged two just laughed Just asked I that didn't handled the squad car --they wanted to make it home,in one peice
dude
Member
I'm not talking 'mechanisims' or tech stuff as I know about the Glock's inner workings and was quite happy with my Glock 30 (not happy enough though). I just dissagree that a chambered Glock is as 'safe' as a revolver. The revolver's trigger pull is so much more substantial that the comparison is nutty.
I'm a P7 guy anyways from back in the early 80s and having tried the Glock design for a bit, it just does not do it for me.
I in no way consider them to be unsafe..........I just don't feel they are as 'safe' as revolvers for several reasons.
I'm a P7 guy anyways from back in the early 80s and having tried the Glock design for a bit, it just does not do it for me.
I in no way consider them to be unsafe..........I just don't feel they are as 'safe' as revolvers for several reasons.
BamBam
Member
Dude,
I think that maybe you meant to say "if you don't carry with the trigger cocked back".
I'd agree, the double action pull of a revolver is more substantial than that of a glock.
The single action of a revolver, however, is much lighter than that of a Glock. Unless the revolver is a real turd.
dude
Member
no, with the hammer cocked back
.....but thanks for 'assuming'
.....but thanks for 'assuming'
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Glock's and Revolver's?
I like 'em both; but I perfer SIG'S!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
I like 'em both; but I perfer SIG'S!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
CMcDermott
Member
The difference is in the holster.
Te holsters used by the "cool" cops with the revolvers all had a "cutaway" so your finger could be in the triggerguard when holstered - it made for a faster draw don'tyaknow .
Then the Glocks were ordered with standard holsters without the cutaway - so now these fumblefingers are shooting themselves as they holster their Glocks with their fingers on the trigger.
Te holsters used by the "cool" cops with the revolvers all had a "cutaway" so your finger could be in the triggerguard when holstered - it made for a faster draw don'tyaknow
.Then the Glocks were ordered with standard holsters without the cutaway - so now these fumblefingers are shooting themselves as they holster their Glocks with their fingers on the trigger.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I've rented several Glocks, and it's conceivable I could even buy one someday, but the triggers are creepy. I think they're ugly, but the triggers are nothing like revolver triggers.
bad_dad_brad
Member
Glocks. Shooters either love em or hate em. Personally I really like the Glock trigger, but I was never spoiled by the crispness of a cocked SA M1911. I also like the Glock's simple design and functional reliability.
If I were forced to pick only one handgun, it would be a Glock, probably a G19.
But as the philosopher once said, "I agree with your right to disagree."
If I were forced to pick only one handgun, it would be a Glock, probably a G19.
But as the philosopher once said, "I agree with your right to disagree."
Nick96
Member
Someone stated they have never heard of an AD with a DA revolver. Well, I have - actually two. Not personally, but people I know. The most "off the wall" case - off duty cop drops a snub .38 in his girlfriend's purse and they head out for a night on the town. He goes to retrieve the .38 in the parking lot of the night spot and BAMM - one hole in leg.
Okay, alcohol likely involved. Gun is buried under a mountian of the various and sundry stuff ladies carry in their purses. A guy who has a familiarity with firearms that likely contributes to a laxidasical attitude. But the fact remains, the "safe action" of the revolver wasn't "safe enough" to prevent the AD.
Now, consider the slickest factory DA revolver - long DA pull at about 10 pounds. Now the Glock - short stroke at about 6 pounds (factory).
The moral of this story is - there is no "safe" gun. But it appears the greatest likelyhood of an AD would be with a short stroke - light pull trigger, rather than a long stroke medium to heavy pull one.
IMHO, Glocks should be reserved for "real" holsters with trigger guards, and in possession of only well trained persons in full grasp of their wits when around them.
Bottom line - if you tend to be somewhat lax in religious gun handling safety - the revolver is probably the lesser of the two evils.
Okay, alcohol likely involved. Gun is buried under a mountian of the various and sundry stuff ladies carry in their purses. A guy who has a familiarity with firearms that likely contributes to a laxidasical attitude. But the fact remains, the "safe action" of the revolver wasn't "safe enough" to prevent the AD.
Now, consider the slickest factory DA revolver - long DA pull at about 10 pounds. Now the Glock - short stroke at about 6 pounds (factory).
The moral of this story is - there is no "safe" gun. But it appears the greatest likelyhood of an AD would be with a short stroke - light pull trigger, rather than a long stroke medium to heavy pull one.
IMHO, Glocks should be reserved for "real" holsters with trigger guards, and in possession of only well trained persons in full grasp of their wits when around them.
Bottom line - if you tend to be somewhat lax in religious gun handling safety - the revolver is probably the lesser of the two evils.
Mike Irwin
Member
"The most important safety device is resting inside the thick bone container between your ears."
Quite frankly, given the frequency of failures, not only with firearms but other devices in every day life, the "gray matter safety" is pretty much worthless.
I, too, have heard of negligent discharges with revolvers -- because of GMS failures.
Quite frankly, given the frequency of failures, not only with firearms but other devices in every day life, the "gray matter safety" is pretty much worthless.
I, too, have heard of negligent discharges with revolvers -- because of GMS failures.
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