RobMoore
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New THR Rule: Write better thread titles.
Glocks aren't the best.....
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New THR Rule: Write better thread titles.
Constructive criticism is lost on Glock GmbH because it is abundantly clear that they do not listen to market feedback. Gen 4 is a half-hearted attempt to address losing market share to more user friendly competitors.
"Hey, let's graft back strap spacers onto our standard misshapen grip, not really change how it feels other than making it more textured, and call it good."
Brilliant. I would like to like holding a Glock, but if anything they are even more stubborn than I am. I am not going to buy one just to grind, sand, and burn plastic into something halfway decent to hold. There are other totally viable choices out there now for the style of pistol they generally offer and Glock doesn't quite seem to grasp that.
Fastcast
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Yea, no doubt.....My 14 year old son also likes Glocks but has no idea why, when I ask him what's so great about Glock, he exclaims "Glocks ROCK".....LMAO
Even if they do he doesn't have a clue why!.....Personally I'll stick with the John Browning & CZ platforms.
"Lots and lots" of Glock owners float an entire cottage industry of grip modifiers and now Lone Wolf makes an entirely different frame without the infamous "hump." The M&P and the SAXD have been gaining market share against Glock for no apparent reason too.
Denial. River. Egypt.
Denial. River. Egypt.
easyg
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I don't any problem with the Glock grip angle.
I'm actually more accurate shooting a Glock than I am shooting an XD or an M&P.
Glocks point very naturally for me.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'm actually more accurate shooting a Glock than I am shooting an XD or an M&P.
Glocks point very naturally for me.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Apparently not for an old boatswains mate in Oregon
Actually does anybody actually have stats about who has what share of the market? I always hear this
This is not a zero sum game is it?
I'm sure Glock has lost some of the polymer market share as they were the only game in town for many years. But still... not yet time for anti-glockers to crow is it?
Actually does anybody actually have stats about who has what share of the market? I always hear this
perhaps not with the clear anti-glock sentiment attached, however, Glock is also gaining police forces too, not just losing them. And Glock still, despite "boats" views still sell like hotcakes in the private world too. And apparently the gun's positive attributes are enough to convince those that use this "cottage" industry of grip reductions that it is worth doing.
This is not a zero sum game is it?
I'm sure Glock has lost some of the polymer market share as they were the only game in town for many years. But still... not yet time for anti-glockers to crow is it?
RobMoore
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If they don't crow now, when then? There is a little blood in the water. Get the licks in now before they recover.
ForumSurfer
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A little split personality from my collection...
New member, just thought I'd contribute to the mass-confusion. Here's a quick crappy picture from my collection. There's a tool for every occasion. The CDP is my carry piece and my Glock is my new "go to hell" gun to replace an old stone reliable, dead accurate para p12 I sold.
But still...i thought this would be a good split personality syndrome pic. Die hard fans from either side may faint!
Yes, they coexist nicely in the same safe!
New member, just thought I'd contribute to the mass-confusion. Here's a quick crappy picture from my collection. There's a tool for every occasion. The CDP is my carry piece and my Glock is my new "go to hell" gun to replace an old stone reliable, dead accurate para p12 I sold.
But still...i thought this would be a good split personality syndrome pic. Die hard fans from either side may faint!
Yes, they coexist nicely in the same safe!
atlanticfire
Member
I don't know...I think I see that Kimber smirking and the glock turning a little red....
Tacbandit
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yeh, yeh, yeh...yahdy,yahdy,yahda....whatever...
Use whatever works best for you...
Use whatever works best for you...
Buying a plastic pistol to sand grind and burn it is rather foolish IMO. Much more sane to buy a handgun that actually fits one's hand.
It's difficult to come by hard figures for three primary reasons. First Glock is privately held and the only sales figures one can reliably infer for Glock are from the BATFE stats. S&W, while publicly held, reports winning new contracts against competitors like this, "Department X will replace currently issued non-Smith & Wesson firearms supplied by a European-based manufacturer." That could be any one of four major players. Lastly the XD doesn't have any major police contracts of note, but on the civilian market the HS2000 wasn't even known to most potential buyers. SA has promoted the snot out of that pistol, each one sold a potentially lost civvy sale for Glock.
But whatever is actually the hard numbers case, the M&P has been making a dent where it hurts Glock the most image wise. Though only competing for po-po contracts since 2006 with the M&P as the flagship model, as of 2008, S&W had begun winning 80% of the pistol T&Es it entered. (90% of the rifle ones too.) http://seekingalpha.com/article/70710-smith-wesson-time-to-pull-the-trigger
S&W's police market penetration used to hover around 90%. It won't likely approach that level again with the increased competition available, but by being a vertically integrated one stop shop for everything from handcuffs to pistols and revolvers, to fully automatic rifles, the Generation 4 back straps are clearly Glock's response to the alarm bell that finally went off.
It's difficult to come by hard figures for three primary reasons. First Glock is privately held and the only sales figures one can reliably infer for Glock are from the BATFE stats. S&W, while publicly held, reports winning new contracts against competitors like this, "Department X will replace currently issued non-Smith & Wesson firearms supplied by a European-based manufacturer." That could be any one of four major players. Lastly the XD doesn't have any major police contracts of note, but on the civilian market the HS2000 wasn't even known to most potential buyers. SA has promoted the snot out of that pistol, each one sold a potentially lost civvy sale for Glock.
But whatever is actually the hard numbers case, the M&P has been making a dent where it hurts Glock the most image wise. Though only competing for po-po contracts since 2006 with the M&P as the flagship model, as of 2008, S&W had begun winning 80% of the pistol T&Es it entered. (90% of the rifle ones too.) http://seekingalpha.com/article/70710-smith-wesson-time-to-pull-the-trigger
S&W's police market penetration used to hover around 90%. It won't likely approach that level again with the increased competition available, but by being a vertically integrated one stop shop for everything from handcuffs to pistols and revolvers, to fully automatic rifles, the Generation 4 back straps are clearly Glock's response to the alarm bell that finally went off.
-Amen.
There are many other polymer, striker-fired pistols that are very GLOCK-like, nowadays.
The reason I don't like any of them is that they all decided to "improve" the grip.
I never liked grips with relief for the web of the shooting hand, to begin with. (Beretta 92 grip being a prime example). To me, that's like having a long gun with a stock that you can't quite snug all the way up to your shoulder. The GLOCK is quite the opposite. It is the most web-filling grip on any pistol out there, which is one reason some find it uncomfortable. I love that aspect, and I wish other makers would go more in that direction, as well. XD goes very much the other way, with the little relief where the grip safety is. Steyr M9, same thing. M&P is actually not too bad.
So the part that many people hate is the part that I like.
Interchangeable backstraps don't even touch this area of the grip, unfortunately. Since I must be abnormal, I guess I'll just have to be thankful that Gaston messed up so badly on the first 3 generations of GLOCKs.
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razorback2003
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The Glock is a good handgun for it's intended purpose. I enjoy mine. Is it the best? It depends on what you want to use it for. It is extremely reliable and quick for people to learn because there aren't decockers or safeties. It has a somewhat longer/mushy trigger that requires a deliberate pull all the way back to fire...as opposed to a crisper trigger of say a nice 22LR target auto pistol....which cuts down on civil liability in public for a self defense gun in some of the more sue happy jurisdictions..BATF classifying it as a DAO serves that purpose. The handgun is very affordable for common people and police departments and can stand up to a lot of abuse.
I do enjoy shooting nice 1911's 45 and hope to get one at some point....Wilson Combat would be great when money comes my way! For an out of the box, affordable gun, it is good for many people.....but if you've got the money, time, and can afford the 45 ammo...i'd go for a nice tuned 1911! Beautiful piece, great to shoot, and a piece of history.
I do enjoy shooting nice 1911's 45 and hope to get one at some point....Wilson Combat would be great when money comes my way! For an out of the box, affordable gun, it is good for many people.....but if you've got the money, time, and can afford the 45 ammo...i'd go for a nice tuned 1911! Beautiful piece, great to shoot, and a piece of history.
harmon rabb
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i never can quite understand fanboyism. glocks, xd's, and m&p's are all great. pick whichever one feels better in your hand, or you think looks cooler, or that you can get a better deal on. doesn't really matter. can't go wrong buying any of those 3.
Fastcast
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I guess call me old fashion but I just really never understood the fascination with the polymer pistols, other than weight, which is nowhere near a big enough selling point for me.
Yes, I've shot Glocks and M&Ps but no XDs, although I'm sure they would be just another black (soulless) plastic tool. Yes, they may function perfectly and be durable and light but they can't even remotely match the elegance, character and charm of a 1911, BHP, CZ or Beretta pistol.....IMO
The polymers lack of old world workmanship will forever exclude them from my safe or side.
I imagine the day when polymers are all that's manufactured and when I'm gone God willing my children will grab those old hunks of steel and hear that mesmerizing sound when the slide slams shut and contemplate about a time when quality crafted pistols were more important than simplistic tools for profit.
Reminds me of an old saying....."When ships were made of wood and men were made of steel."
Yes, I've shot Glocks and M&Ps but no XDs, although I'm sure they would be just another black (soulless) plastic tool. Yes, they may function perfectly and be durable and light but they can't even remotely match the elegance, character and charm of a 1911, BHP, CZ or Beretta pistol.....IMO
The polymers lack of old world workmanship will forever exclude them from my safe or side.
I imagine the day when polymers are all that's manufactured and when I'm gone God willing my children will grab those old hunks of steel and hear that mesmerizing sound when the slide slams shut and contemplate about a time when quality crafted pistols were more important than simplistic tools for profit.
Reminds me of an old saying....."When ships were made of wood and men were made of steel."
Yes but if Glock sold stock might it also be a buy. This was a buy for an fairly low priced stock. Not exactly the hard info I was hoping for.
And no
I hope SW does well, God know gun owners need all the manufactures doing well.
And no
is not reality. But Boats clearly has an anti-Glock view (and not just in this thread) and in a court room one info link, is not enough evidence.
I hope SW does well, God know gun owners need all the manufactures doing well.
Because yeah, I was linking a stock tip.
The data behind the buy recommendation was what I was linking. When S&W goes from basically zero police contracts for the Sigma and few with the last Third Generation autos, to batting .800 with the first generation M&P, some "non S&W manufacturer from a European country" is going to be bearing the brunt of the improved hitting out of Springfield.
There's another legal doctrine you might want to look into: Res ipsa loquitur, or "the thing speaks for itself." It can certainly be adapted to this discussion in the context of why Glock is the last major polymer handgun with interchangeable back straps. Any explanation other than the obvious one of needing to remain competitive with market developments borders on fiction.
That I hate Glocks is irrelevant to facts underlying the explosive presence of the M&P, both generally and in the police market. It's meteoric rise is even reflected in the chatter on GlockTalk over the past 3+ years, hardly a cave of Glock detractors.
The data behind the buy recommendation was what I was linking. When S&W goes from basically zero police contracts for the Sigma and few with the last Third Generation autos, to batting .800 with the first generation M&P, some "non S&W manufacturer from a European country" is going to be bearing the brunt of the improved hitting out of Springfield.
There's another legal doctrine you might want to look into: Res ipsa loquitur, or "the thing speaks for itself." It can certainly be adapted to this discussion in the context of why Glock is the last major polymer handgun with interchangeable back straps. Any explanation other than the obvious one of needing to remain competitive with market developments borders on fiction.
That I hate Glocks is irrelevant to facts underlying the explosive presence of the M&P, both generally and in the police market. It's meteoric rise is even reflected in the chatter on GlockTalk over the past 3+ years, hardly a cave of Glock detractors.
harmon rabb
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Boats, the legal doctrine of res ipsa has to do with negligence
harmon rabb
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when your 1911 has a 13 round mag, let me know.
Fastcast
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Well, if I feel the need for more rounds than the 1911 offers, I'll grab the CZ, BHP or Beretta......Genius idea eh?..............Intellect - Priceless!
I know that, which is why I said the phrase could be adapted to suit this conversation. Maybe I should have said co-opted?
Privately held Glock is certainly not going to say why exactly they belatedly began featuring changeable back straps. However, the true reason speaks for itself, e.g. everyone else is already doing it.
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