Good 9mm loading manual

[Professor Gascan]

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster.

I've been gathering supplies to start reloading and recently bought the Lyman 50th edition manual. Let's just say the 9mm data is rather lacking. Does anyone have any suggestions for a manual with a good amount of load data for mostly FMJ and lead with a good selection of powders?

TIA

 

[hdwhit]

First, try the powder maker's sites to see what they can offer that will supplement what is in your Lyman manual:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

http://westernpowders.com/

 

[Walkalong]

Vihtavuori

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Congrats on your first post.

I have that manual, Lee and the ones from the powder makers.

I'd suggest going to their sites and getting the free copies they'll send.

I know people love or hate Lee stuff but I find the book really good. Lots of info on how to load. Some complain the load data is from other sources, but I found it a great first book with lots of loads.

If you haven't picked your bullets, many here like RMR with BE86. Jake the owner of RMR has posted loads that work well. They're right in the Alliant range so they're safe, but you should get the free Alliant book to double and triple check.

 

[dgod]

Amen to Hokie_PhD.. Lee is a great book

 

[Dudedog]

Welcome to THR,
lots of great people here.

RMR offers THR members a 5% discount with a code and has free shipping, great people to do business with.
As mentioned earlier check out the powder makers sites lots of good info there.

If you have a specific bullet/powder you are interested in let us know and someone may have data for that bullet/powder.
Of course all guns are different but it could give you an idea.

Listed loads give you an idea of the range, it is not something cast in stone. What is listed as the MAX may be more than what is a MAX load for you guns, that's why we always work up if we are after MAX loads.

 

[Professor Gascan]

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions everyone. I opened the lee die set to read the instructions and the backside actually has way more data than the 3 pages in the lyman manual.

 

[ATLDave]

I would recommend Speer and/or Hornady as great all-around manuals with lots of data for jacketed bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions everyone. I opened the lee die set to read the instructions and the backside actually has way more data than the 3 pages in the lyman manual.

I use the Lyman manual among others and it's rarely lacking. I just looked and for the 9mm they supply data for 11 different bullets including 4 Cast bullets with bullet weights from 90gr to 147gr. They also supply data for 14+ powders. You're not going to find a manual with more than that, that is A LOT of data..

IMO you don't choose an over all manual for one cartridge. Choose a powder you want to use and then check that powders load data site. Choose a bullet you want to use and do the same. If you are going to use a company's bullets for many cartridges you might want to buy that bullet manufacturers manual.

The Hodgdon Load Data Site is a good one because they supply data for all Hodgdon, Winchester and IMR powders and usually a lot if bullets too.

Welcome to the forum and to reloading.

 

[ray15]

As others have said the Lee manual has a fairly comprehensive listing for 9mm. Yes, it is others' data, but that data is no more valid when published by the company that generated it. The lyman books also have quite wide coverage, but many are for cast bullets made using the Lyman dies (to no surprise).

But to be honest you can find all the same data for yourself if you look around. The most reliable load data comes from the manufacturer of the powder used, and all the powder makers have load data on their websites these days.

Also understand you have to do your own testing to really know how safe you are. If you have load data that uses your exact bullet, powder, and primer you can take it pretty literally - but 99% of 9mm load data will use big-maker bullets that if purchased would drive the cost of your reloads past that of really good factory ammo. So you'll nearly always be off the reservation with respect to the published load data, and will need make adjustments to at times even the starting load to accommodate the unique characteristics of your load and its interaction with your gun - and then work up to a verified target velocity the published load data evidences as safe for your powder.

In that respect you might say the best load manual is a combination of google and an inexpensive chronometer. There are a lot of things to buy as a beginning reloader, but I see the chronometer second to only the powder scale and calipers in terms of safety impact.

 

[kcofohio]

Prof. Gascan, welcome to THR!

I agree that the Lee Modern manual is a good starter. But I also find the Lyman manual to be worth it. As others have said, the same with Hodgdon, Western Powders, and Alliant data.

Listed loads give you an idea of the range, it is not something cast in stone. What is listed as the MAX may be more than what is a MAX load for you guns, that's why we always work up if we are after MAX loads.

^Always good to remember this.^

I use the Lyman manual among others and it's rarely lacking. I just looked and for the 9mm they supply data for 11 different bullets including 4 Cast bullets with bullet weights from 90gr to 147gr. They also supply data for 14+ powders. You're not going to find a manual with more than that, that is A LOT of data..

The Lyman's manual is a big +, especially if one loads cast bullets.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

But to be honest you can find all the same data for yourself if you look around. The most reliable load data comes from the manufacturer of the powder used, and all the powder makers have load data on their websites these days.

In that respect you might say the best load manual is a combination of google and an inexpensive chronometer. There are a lot of things to buy as a beginning reloader, but I see the chronometer second to only the powder scale and calipers in terms of safety impact.

I fully agree with the first paragraph above, but the following one I have issues with.

If what you posted is true and had been repeated all over the net and in books, I wouldn't have been able to start reloading when I did for as little as I did. If one, starts with known reliable load data at the start value, doesn't exceed the published max values and watches for signs of high pressure a chrono isn't necessary.

IMHO a beginning reloader, is learning so many things, that messing with a chrono isn't another thing they need to do. The top priority is to make safe, reliable loads and to learn good practices. This can be done by starting low, and working up loads carefully but not exceeding max published. It's why so many suggest multiple manuals. By having multiple manuals, a loaded can decide what a safe max is. In my case, when I started I chose the lowest value. Now that I have more experience, and I know my guns better, I feel safer looking at an average, but I'll still throw up a value if it is much higher than the others. And I still look closely for high pressure signals.

So OP has enough to buy and learn. If a chrono is something they can afford right now, great but saying it's needed for safety is wrong. Many loaders don't use them and make safe loads. Many have decades of experience. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have decades of experience, and I really want a chrono, but it's not a priority right now. And I'm making safe loads following safe practices used by those who have done this for decades.

Again, OP needs a good book like Lee to read for all of the skills, they need another to have for a comparison. Powder companies have load books they give away, and their websites list load data for their powders. So that's a lot for them now. I say, they get their gear and books together. Read all they can in the mean time, then when ready load some rounds on the lower end to middle of the load data and go to the range. That first round fired will be special for them. The rest will be cool.

From there they can get confidence, learn safe loading and then worry about making rounds that need a chrono.

/rant

 

[ray15]

Having other things to buy doesn't change how radically a chronograph improves the safety of reloading. 9mm doesn't show much in the way of pressure signs until you are way over pressure. The most important advice is to start low and work up, but without the chrono you don't always know if you've started low enough and don't really know exactly what to work up to. Good chronographs are about 80 bucks these days, where as I understand a new hand costs more than twice that amount (maybe more). It's just not worth it.

And to starting with 'reliable' data - it's unpredictable how close you are going to come to duplicating any load data with your loading practices, pojectile choice, and most importantly, gun. The chrono is the means to ensure what is listed as a safe range is truly safe for you. Sure, if you know how much powder to use a chrono wouldn't matter - but the chrono informs developing the truth of just that immensely.

 

[LiveLife]

I beg to differ.

Reloaders have been developing accurate loads and matches have been won without the aid of chronograph for decades.

While I consider chronograph a very useful tool (especially for verifying muzzle velocities near max or for power factor calculations), it is not essential for developing accurate loads.

I do however recommend use of check weights for verifying accuracy and consistency of scales.

The most important advice is to start low and work up

This I agree with.

without the chrono you don't always know if you've started low enough and don't really know exactly what to work up to.

After I determine max and working OAL/COL for the bullet I am using, my powder work up is conducted first to determine the charge that will reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases then monitored for accuracy trend. You can do this without using a chrono.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Respone OBE as BDS summed it up better and more concisely

 

[ray15]

BDS, I did not use the work accuracy once. It's a safety concern. For $80 you can improve your safety margin and learn a lot faster.

 

[ray15]

After I determine max and working OAL/COL for the bullet I am using, my powder work up is conducted first to determine the charge that will reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases then monitored for accuracy trend. You can do this without using a chrono.

Sure you can, you know your guns well and have tons of experience. But not all situations are equal.

I've got 3 9mm handguns, and no load I've tried, out of the 5,000 I've loaded this year, has failed to cycle the slide on any of the guns. And I've started below the listed starting charge many times. If you're talking about a 1911 slide function might easily establish a lower limit, but this is not effective for all guns. My PPQ will cycle with about anything more than the primer itself. As a beginner you could be hundreds of fps away from where you imagine, and that has a predictable and affordably prevented impact on the safety of the learning process.

 

[LiveLife]

Well folks, you heard it from ray. One cannot develop safe reloads without the use of a chrono. So if you are reloading without a chrono, you all should stop reloading until you can get yourself a chrono.

BUT not all chronos will read accurately or consistently under different conditions. Anyone who used a chrono knows this. In fact, two different chronos can show different readings for the same ammunition.

I use chrono numbers as a guide but rely on holes on target to finalize my loads.

 

[ray15]

Well folks, you heard it from ray. One cannot develop safe reloads without the use of a chrono. So if you are reloading without a chrono, you all should stop reloading until you can get yourself a chrono.

BDS, I am glad you have great experience and share it freely, but that certainly was not my point. My point was that chronographs substantially improve the safety of the reloading process, are affordable, and as such are an important resource for beginners.

BUT not all chronos will read accurately or consistently under different conditions. Anyone who used a chrono knows this. In fact, two different chronos can show different readings for the same ammunition.

In fact, two examples of the same chrono can and will probably yield slightly different results, but all of us who are not simply trying to make a point recognize the deviations we are talking about are small enough to preclude the data from improving the safety of the process.

I use chrono numbers as a guide but rely on holes on target to finalize my loads.

Because you are concerned primarily with accuracy. As a beginning reloader you need to be concerned about safety.

And let me point out that THR is a great resource, and you can often find people that have tried the exact combination you are working with and get great advice. BDS has tried most. But as a community THR should also recommend the safest methodologies, especially when they are this affordable. There are those that maintain powder dippers are good enough, but I hope there's no one here recommending skipping the scale. Technology has improved in many ways over the century-plus people have been reloading metallic cartridges, and these days you really don't have to work in the partial knowledge vacuum that unverified velocities produces.

 

[LiveLife]

Sorry ray15, I couldn't pass up the opportunity.

Yes, THR considers safety very seriously and moderator Walkalong makes sure we stay in line.

You will find THR members adhere to published load data religiously and post disclaimers when posting heavy or unpublished loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/

In fact, when working OAL/COL is below published, I often suggest use of lowest published start/max charges and reduction of start/max charges by .2-.3 gr (which has worked for me) and I often suggest "initial" powder work up to be on the conservative side.

My newest Lone Wolf 9mm barrel (like my Sig 1911 barrel) has no leade with tight chamber and RMR 115/124 gr FMJ loaded to 1.130" that works in KKM and other Lone Wolf barrels now needs to be loaded shorter at 1.110"-1.115" (without pressure issues and velocities within published load data) and will continue to use shorter OAL for my future load development and range testing for other members who have barrels with no/short leade - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...epth-for-accuracy.825350/page-2#post-10629627

 

[ray15]

BDS, I agree that people here do keep safety in mind in their recommendations. You helped my with an issue with the first rounds I loaded, and I am grateful for yours and everyone's help. But in that initial quandary, I was assembling a combination that was producing max velocities beneath the recommended starting load for the most applicable data I could find. Partly because I was new to reloading and didn't fully grasp all the factors involved, and partly because at times the best book data isn't really good enough to cover the situation without drastic adjustment. Fortunately I had decided to buy the chrono and knew I was way too hot and did not shoot out the full ladder of loads I had made up to test. Without the chrono, I would have cracked off many 40,000+ PSI loads to possibly bad effect. As a new reloader you make errors, some small and some large. A cheap chronograph and a good bullet puller are tools I've used a lot, even in my limited experience.

 

[LiveLife]

I agree. It's always good policy to error on the side of safety.

And that's why we conduct powder work up from published start charges. And if we change reloading variables like using shorter OAL/COL, bullet seating depth, etc., that will increase chamber pressures, it is only prudent to lower powder charges or stop powder work up before published max.

 

[Jim Watson]

There is a real nugget in post #20.
There are a lot of manufacturers of 9mm guns and barrels. Some of them are made to low SAAMI specification, some to high SAAMI, some to low CIP, some to high CIP, and some to "we know better."
There are a lot of manufacturers of 9mm bullets with a lot of dies and moulds. A lot of the products are blunter than the 1915 roundnose with little bearing surface ahead of the case mouth that is still standard in military and econoball ammunition.
When you combine a chamber with short throat and leade with a long bodied/short nosed bullet, you are going to end up with a shorter OAL than the book says.

This is very frustrating to the typical "recipe hunter" who cannot find a published load that exactly fits his gun.
A combination of starting with the Starting Load - which, if not stated, is typically 90% of the maximum, you have to read the fine print at the introduction to Alliant data to learn that - and the "Plunk test" to be sure YOUR chamber will accept YOUR load will get you started safely.

Starting below the 90% or book starting load (Lyman shows lighter starting loads in many calibers.) is a safe conservative approach if you are far from standard components (Why?) but you may produce ammo that will not cycle your automatic. Going the other way, I was reducing loads for low recoil for a beginner and found that for the gun in question, an 88% load was the minimum that would function.
The lesson here is that when starting or "working up", don't make up a large supply of an untested load. If you make up 500 of a load that won't function the gun or shows "pressure signs", you will have a lot of work for the bullet puller that is part of your reloading equipment.

You can load safe serviceable ammo without a chronograph. But one is helpful in refining your ammo. I shoot IDPA and USPSA where Power Factor matters. I can't compete with too light a load and there is no sense getting kicked around with a heavy load, so I chronograph.
It is also useful in making up practice ammo to simulate your dollar a pop carry load or your two dollar a pop premium hunting load.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

You can load safe serviceable ammo without a chronograph. But one is helpful in refining your ammo. I shoot IDPA and USPSA where Power Factor matters. I can't compete with too light a load and there is no sense getting kicked around with a heavy load, so I chronograph.
It is also useful in making up practice ammo to simulate your dollar a pop carry load or your two dollar a pop premium hunting load.

Exactly

My point is what bds said much better. I personally think a new reloader should be working on safe loads and practices. I don't see a chrono as a safety tool for a beginner. In fact, I think it's bad to be messing around with one, but didn't say that as ray15 has a very strong opinion and I didn't want to push this into a nasty fight. I respectfully disagree with him, and agree with you and bds.

So to me, someone shouldn't be messing with loads that are near max until they've got basics down, have good habits and are at the stage where they're ready to try things that they understand and know how to deal with.

Initially, getting ammo that works safely is the first goal. Let's all look back. For me, it's not so hard as I haven't been reloading that long. For some, I suspect it's harder and why they forget that not everyone is worried about max velocity, making power factor etc. in other words we walk by making rounds then advance.

In my own case, I'm thinking about getting a chrono. Not for safety, but because I want to try competition in the not so distant future. So sure, it's a tool that'll help me be safer if used right, it's just not needed as part of the initial tools we need to make safe ammo. In fact, awhile ago I posted a super budget list that included a Lee single stage press, dies, scale, manual and calipers that almost anyone could afford as it was well under $200. Anything more IMHO is extra things to make loading easier and more fun. In my case, I've add d many things beyond the basics, and bought a more expensive scale that I could have got for less had I known now when I bought my Hornaday. But that's another discussion.

To get back on topic, OP needs a good manual. We've offered a few options. IMHO he should now worry about getting them, reading them then deciding on a load or range of loads to try. Again the first loads are to get comfortable and to get the basics down. Then the fun stuff of getting more accurate, hitting power factor etc can be explored if he desires.

 

[Blue68f100]

I'm with BDS on this. I've been hand loading for over 4 decades and just recently got a crony a year or so. With a crony I'm afraid newbees will be chasing numbers and not concentrating on the fundamentals. Load development is just that, you start low and work up. Most of us hand load for accuracy, which requires an attention to details. Messing with a crony and not having the experience to go with it will probably be more confusing. Trying to figure why the numbers are not what the book says. Now crony is nice when your working the top end and going over book values. But you still need the knowledge to interpet what your seeing. I still workup loads without a crony, and only crony them when I'm getting close.

Safety is #1. With the aid of the internet most all are only a few clicks away to finding what they need. But than again you need to know your source since we are really working with controlled explosions. Complacency will get someone hurt.