Got my Pedersoli Sharps rifle yesterday!

[Chief TC]

Pedersolis MAY shoot .459 bullets OK but most likely you will find .460 performs the best. Cast lead bullets should be .001 - .002 over the bore diameter and most Pedersolis are at .459.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Pedersolis MAY shoot .459 bullets OK but most likely you will find .460 performs the best. Cast lead bullets should be .001 - .002 over the bore diameter and most Pedersolis are at .459.

Thank-you!

Jim G

 

[Roverguy]

I notice you said .460" diameter bullets. I thought .458" or .459" were the norm for 45-70 rifles, so this is interesting.

Jim G

As Chief TC notes, cast bullets want to be ever so slightly over groove depth, .001-.002”. Pedersoli 45-70 barrels are well known to prefer .460 bullets and long years of experience have shown that they perform very well with the 535 grs Postell and similar weight Money bullets.

 

[JimGnitecki]

As Chief TC notes, cast bullets want to be ever so slightly over groove depth, .001-.002”. Pedersoli 45-70 barrels are well known to prefer .460 bullets and long years of experience have shown that they perform very well with the 535 grs Postell and similar weight Money bullets.

Thank-you, Roverguy!

Jim G

 

[eastbank]

i have the pedersoli 1874 target model and it loves the 535 gr postell ./457132 dia with h-4198./

 

[Bob Meyer]

I have one of the Lyman 140th anniversary comemoratives in 30-30 that was made by Petersoli. They call it a Sharps model 1878, but as far as I know the 1878 was the Borchardt Sharps hammerless. The rifle shoots fine, but I had to replace the front sight to get it to hit anywhere close to point of aim.

 

[Chief TC]

Pedersolis are excellent rifles. I am amazed at what it can do sometimes. With my most recent black powder load of 66gr of 1.5 Swiss, I could group less than 1 MOA at 300m. This was using the 520gr bullet from Bear Creek. Most of what I read is that Pedersolis in 45-70 shoot 500gr+ bullets well and lots of mixed reviews on 405gr bullets. Some shoot them well but seems most don't. However, I have used Hornady 325gr FTX bullets and they shoot amazingly. I think the jacket and the speed for those light bullets compensate.

 

[JimGnitecki]

i have the pedersoli 1874 target model and it loves the 535 gr postell ./457132 dia with h-4198./

You said .457132" diameter (and showed off your measuring device's apaprent claimed accuracy! ). That is even smaller diameter than the usual .458" or .459" diameter, let alone the .460" that Roverguy uses! Are the Pedersoli rifles THAT tolerant of bullet diameter? If so, I wonder if their "progressive diameter rifling" has anything to do with that.

Jim G

 

[Chief TC]

Jim - every rifle is different and you have to try different things to see what works. Generally the Pedersoli chambers are generous and will slug at .459, and most people find .460 works best. So many variables - diameter, weight, alloy BHN, gas checks or not, jacketed or not, etc. Some rifles are magical and seem to shoot a variety of everything but that is rare.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Jim - every rifle is different and you have to try different things to see what works. Generally the Pedersoli chambers are generous and will slug at .459, and most people find .460 works best. So many variables - diameter, weight, alloy BHN, gas checks or not, jacketed or not, etc. Some rifles are magical and seem to shoot a variety of everything but that is rare.

Oh, ok. I'm sorry my ordered copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet book, which should have arrived yesterday, has been delayed somewhere in the mail, so all I know about cast bullets so far is what I have been learning here! Can I assume that a cast bullet from "any" mould of the same "nominal" diameter can be sized to different diameters after casting, within a reasonable range of diameters? Say for example a .004" range, so you can test different diameters during a ladder test?

Jim G

 

[Chief TC]

Oh, ok. I'm sorry my ordered copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet book, which should have arrived yesterday, has been delayed somewhere in the mail, so all I know about cast bullets so far is what I have been learning here! Can I assume that a cast bullet from "any" mould of the same "nominal" diameter can be sized to different diameters after casting, within a reasonable range of diameters? Say for example a .004" range, so you can test different diameters during a ladder test?

Jim G

Ideally you slug the bore to get your measurement and then try soft cast bullets .001-.002 over and see what works best. Then you can order the mould you want based on that. For traditional velocities of 1200-1300fps, I'd try commercial 20-1 type bullets and see how they work before buying a mould. You want a mould for type of bullet as well as size. Montana Bullet works, Chey-cast, Bear Creek, Laser Cast all make bullets you can try. If you shoot smokeless and higher velocity then I am less familiar with finding the best bullet/load. But to respond you question more directly, I believe most people have sizers that can usually size .001 - .003/4 smaller than what comes directly out of the casting mould.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Ideally you slug the bore to get your measurement and then try soft cast bullets .001-.002 over and see what works best. Then you can order the mould you want based on that. For traditional velocities of 1200-1300fps, I'd try commercial 20-1 type bullets and see how they work before buying a mould. You want a mould for type of bullet as well as size. Montana Bullet works, Chey-cast, Bear Creek, Laser Cast all make bullets you can try. If you shoot smokeless and higher velocity then I am less familiar with finding the best bullet/load. But to respond you question more directly, I believe most people have sizers that can usually size .001 - .003/4 smaller than what comes directly out of the casting mould.

Thank-you, that answers my question on sizing. My pre-cast commercial bullet selection here in Canada is much more limited than in The U.S., and we cannot as individuals legally import. So, I have to buy what is available from Canadian manufacturers or licensed importers. Right now, that means 405g bullets are available to me, but NO 500g or above bullets at ALL are available to me. Hence, my early interest in casting bullets if it is not too difficult or too costly to get set up to do so.

Jim G

 

[Chief TC]

Thank-you, that answers my question on sizing. My pre-cast commercial bullet selection here in Canada is much more limited than in The U.S., and we cannot as individuals legally import. So, I have to buy what is available from Canadian manufacturers or licensed importers. Right now, that means 405g bullets are available to me, but NO 500g or above bullets at ALL are available to me. Hence, my early interest in casting bullets if it is not too difficult or too costly to get set up to do so.

Jim G

Oh OK, I see. Maybe you can find a local group of cast bullet shooters and see if you can try some different things. I would not hesitate to get a 535gr Postell mould at .461 for a Pedersoli Sharps if I was limited in accessing commercially made bullets. Good luck and I'm sure you will get her shooting well.

 

[lightman]

Thats a nice looking rifle! I would love to have one!

 

[JimGnitecki]

Oh OK, I see. Maybe you can find a local group of cast bullet shooters and see if you can try some different things. I would not hesitate to get a 535gr Postell mould at .461 for a Pedersoli Sharps if I was limited in accessing commercially made bullets. Good luck and I'm sure you will get her shooting well.

Good news on that front. A friend referred me to a longtime long range buffalo rifle shooter. He tells me there is a monthly match, mostly blackpowder I think, just a few minutes from my home! He suggested I come to one of the matches to see the sighting hardware "live", and maybe even get a close look at some of it. I plan to do so for their next match.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

I took the Pedersoli to the range today. It was a disapointment though. The rifle was NOT the problem - it did not let me down. I was the problem - specifically my eyes were the problem. I described what happened in a different thread dedicated to my decision making process on a sighting system for the Pedersoli:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...i-45-70-for-long-range-shooting.919408/page-3

That's not the rifle's fault. The rifle itself was a blast to shoot, break in, and clean, although the recoil is wicked with the jacketed factory ammo I used for the break-in.

Because the rifle weighs 10.5 lb, and a lot of the weight is in that 1" diameter 30 inch long barrel, and because the OEM blade front and rear leaf sights are surprisingly good, it is easy to shoot. Just use the lever to drop the falling block to load a 45-70 round, close the lever, cock the hammer, set the rear trigger, align the shot, lightly TOUCH the front trigger, and the shot goes off. The unusual extractor works best if you cycle the lever QUICKLY after firing. If you move the lever slowly, the cartridge is hardly moved out of the chamber at all.

That 30" barrel had a noticeable effect on muzzle velocity. The Federal factory load I was firing for the break-in has a label that says 300g and 1850 fps. That would create a power factor (a reasonable measure of relative recoil) of 300x 1850 / 1000 = 555! THAT is recoil you can feel.

But according to my Labradar, the 30" barrel produced muzzle velocities of 1942 to 2007 fps, with an average of 1980 (not great SD either with this factory load : 21.17)! THAT changes the power factor to as much as 300 x 2007 / 1000 = 602 ! My shoulder was feeling it, despite the fact that I have shot a 338 Lapua in the past, and never felt recoil that was significant. But the Lapua rifle had a muzzle brake, the Pedersoli of course does not. I For the first time ever I think need to get a recoil pad, as my shoulder was really getting uncomfortable.

I plan to shoot only Cowboy Action loads in it, so mainly 405g bullets at maybe 1300 fps, giving a power factor of 405 x 1300 / 1000 = 527. Notice that that power factor is nOT much lower than the Federal load is fired today, still being 527 / 602 = 87.5% of the Federal's PF!

The break-in went without incident, but I think others who told me a Pedersoli does not need one were correct: The group size did not change as I shot more shots. And, the difference in muzzle velocity between the first 5 shots and the last 5 shots was only 16.8 fps, which I regard as not validly significant, since the SD was 21.17 for the entire session.

Cleaning at the range between shots and then shot strings was easy, and there were no visible copper deposits and no copper on the cleaning brush or patches. Stripping down the falling block action for cleaning back at home was pretty easy and quick, but reassembly was a LITTLE tricky. This was because that unusual extractor is VERY tricky to get back into the rifle properly. Basically, the falling block AND the extractor have to be inserted, simultaneously, with some fancy maneouvering required. The big crosspin that holds both the falling block / lever assembly and the extractor in the frame is also a bit hard to remove and re-insert, but patience pays off.

The hammer on the rifle is side-mounted, not central (which makes mounting a period-correct telescopic sight easy). The firing pin is VERY unusual. One online reviewer describes it as "horseshoe shaped". This is because since the hammer is side-mounted, and the primer on the cartridge is NOT, the hammer falls onto one end of the horseshoe-shaped firing pin, and that strike is transmitted through the horseshoe to the primer. A little unusual . . .

I already love this rifle (except for the wicked recoil). I love the simplicity, the big bullet at low speed, and the "old west frontier" feel. And I like the fact that rifles like this are usually shot at a SASS side match or blackpowder match, where the pace is slow and relaxed. It's a good way to have a relaxed shooting outing.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

p.s. Adding a scope to the rifle, even a heavy (almost 2 lb) historically semi-authentic full length 32" scope, will NOT dampen that strong recoil, because most of the historically semi-authentic scopes SLIDE in their mounts while the rifle recoils. So, the scope does not dampen the recoil basically at all. After firing each shot, you extract the fired cartridge, load a new one, and then slide the scope rearward again to its proper "stop" for firing.

Jim G

 

[Roverguy]

Smokeless loads have a much sharper felt recoil. BP loads feel more of a shove than a snap. Glad you are enjoying this very cool rifle.

 

[Jimster]

Agreed. My Pedersoli Sharps has been fed black powder cartridges only. A very relaxing round to reload. Seems natural for the rifle.

 

[kje54]

I managed to buy my Pedersoli Sharps yesterday, and even got a really good deal on it:

View attachment 1151691

It's the Pedersoli Sharps "Hunter" model, which is the now discontinued lowest priced Pedersoli Sharps model, that has none of the fancier features of some of the more costly models. In the U.S., it is still available at a price of about $1900, but it recently disappeared from the Pedersoli website. In Canada, these are pretty rare. But Cabela's Canada in Calgary, about 220km = 136 miles from where I live, had ONE in actual inventory, but they actually needed to verify that it was actually at that store before I could buy it.

I really did not want to spend a lot of money on another rifle right now, but I had one lever rifle whose condition a selling dealer had misrepresented to me that I did not want to keep, and my wife encouraged me to jump on this Pedersoli because if its anomalous Cabela's Canadian price. In The U.S., Cabela's advertises this model at the regular U.S. price of $1900, which is about $2600 Canadian at the current currency exchange rate. But for some reason, here in Canada, Pedersoli rifles are sold at about that same amount, or lower, paid in Canadian, not U.S. dollars, despite the fact that the Canadian dollar = only $0.74 US. That makes these Pedersol rifles a REAL bargain. This specific rifle model in fact has been advertised on Cabela's Canadian website at $1780 Canadian, which is about 1/3 less than in The U.S., for at least the few weeks that I have been looking at Pedersoli Sharps rifles, and incredibly, no one else has bought it! So, I drove up to Calgary, traded in a lever rifle I did not want to keep, and got back into Cowboy Action long range side match shooting at the lowest possible cost!

The Pedersoli Sharps models are apparently not as finely finished as the U.S. made "Shiloh" and "C-Sharps" models, but the prices for those are in the "several thousands" category even in The U.S., and so importing one into Canada would be, for me, ridiculously unaffordable as a retiree.

The Pedersoli rifles, which are made in Italy, have an awesome reputation among knowledgeable shooters that like to shoot "Old West Buffalo rifles". They are very high quality, machined from forged metal, with "progressive" broached rifling that becomes a thou or two smaller in diameter from the breech to the muzzle, apparently to facilitate use of the largest diameter bullets to improve bullet sealing in the rifling and avoid leading. All the models come with the typical rifle blade front sights and barrel mounted rear leaf sights with elevator ramps, but ALL models are drilled and tapped to accept multiple brands and sizes of "Creedmoor" vernier peep ladder sights and front tunnel sights with interchangeable inserts, for those 500 to 1000 yard shots these rifles are capable of making.

I had a different Pedersoli - a Rolling Block" model - a couple of decades ago, and at a national SASS match in Cody Wyoming, I successfully shot a full-size steel buffalo profile at 500 yards = 1500 feet with a good set of sights on it. It was a treat calculating the required rear sight setting, aligning the sight picture, taking the shots, and waiting about a full second for the 1350 fps muzzle velocity 405g bullet to reach and "clang" the target, and then waiting another second or more for the "clang" sound to be transmitted back to me! (Sound travels at only about 1100 fps).

So, this "Plain Jane" model can be equipped with aftermarket items to perform just as well as the prettier much more costly models ($3000 US or so). So I have a great foundation to build on. I will be looking for a good deal on new or used MVA or Shaver or other highest quality rear sight and front tunnel kits.

And this Sharps Hunter model has a couple of specific features I particularly like: a pistol grip stock, a 30" barrel, a hefty weight of 10.5 lb before adding the aftermarket sights, a full octagon barrel, and a "Shotgun" butt plate instead of the more typical "concave curved" butt plate (I find the shotgun butt plate much more comfortable when firing some of the heavier loads). And the dual set trigger has an amazingly low trigger pull and is very crisp.

This is a rifle I will not be foolish enough to sell or trade off.

I'd love to have a Pedersoli however I do have an IAB, (yeah I know what that stands for)......... Mine functions perfectly fine, no hiccups, nothing broken. I do only shoot BP loads through it though.