Got pulled over; Officer took my sidearm.
- Thread starter Magic_Man
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Issuance of a license (any kind of license) in many states includes...
..as a condition of acceptance that you automatically give certain implied consent -- for instance, having a driver's license is automatic consent to a sobriety test.
Check your state laws (don't take an internet jockey's word for it) that your CCW or LTCF may automatically expose you to allowing the officer to inspect your weapon and run the numbers.
This is probably too important to take our word for it on the internet, go check it out in your own State law.
It is very possible that your civil rights were not violated, depending upon implied consent in your state.
Perhaps someone who is a bonifide expert in the law in your state can help us.
..as a condition of acceptance that you automatically give certain implied consent -- for instance, having a driver's license is automatic consent to a sobriety test.
Check your state laws (don't take an internet jockey's word for it) that your CCW or LTCF may automatically expose you to allowing the officer to inspect your weapon and run the numbers.
This is probably too important to take our word for it on the internet, go check it out in your own State law.
It is very possible that your civil rights were not violated, depending upon implied consent in your state.
Perhaps someone who is a bonifide expert in the law in your state can help us.
Kingofthehill
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no, the guy that screams "I KNOW MY RIGHTS" when obviously he didn't.
he knew his rights after the fact.
JOe
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I'd like to go on the record as having said that being "let go" for a deserved violation is NOT a reasonable trade off for being disarmed, possibly endangered when the officer attempts to safely remove your sidearm from your holster while you're seated without sweeping you, questionably 'searched' (running the numbers without any indication of a reason), having your trunk opened, etc.
There are an awful lot of totally inappropriate things that can be done in the name of "officer safety." Absolute hogwash.
There are worse things than a traffic fine. I don't care to give up whatever is left of my civil rights so cheaply.
Am I "That Guy?" Then good. Wish we were ALL "That Guy."
There are an awful lot of totally inappropriate things that can be done in the name of "officer safety." Absolute hogwash.
There are worse things than a traffic fine. I don't care to give up whatever is left of my civil rights so cheaply.
Am I "That Guy?" Then good. Wish we were ALL "That Guy."
huntsman
Member
RUT ROH
I guess he ran you gun also and that's what would piss me off the most.
Kingofthehill
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depends if you allow it to happen, to only complain and moan about it after the fact instead of doing what you feel is right during the time of the interaction with the officer.
Hmm... hope that makes sense, LOL
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I don't see how his being upset after it happened is less righteous than being educated before hand. It is not unreasonable to find out that you were "played" and to be quite indignant about it.
And I'd like to hear about his experiences, even if he didn't stand up for himself in some way that he could have. I might learn something I can use later.
And I'd like to hear about his experiences, even if he didn't stand up for himself in some way that he could have. I might learn something I can use later.
Kingofthehill
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ABSOLUTELY!... Like i posted "Live and learn"... be more prepared for next time. Im always learning and always stay open minded to learn more.
That's all my point was.
I guess I see your point. After all, did he check to see if anything else that you were legally posessing was stolen (other than your car)?
If you had a laptop, I bet they wouldn't try to see if that was stolen unless they had a reason to, so why the gun? It seems to me that the most dangerous time for the officer was before he knew you had a gun, if for example, you were a fugitive or nuts or some other type of dangerous dude. You started out with a loaded gun and didn't shoot him before he knew you had it, so why not just give it back. At that point, you were home free, so you would have had no reason to shoot him.
So you had to leave your car on the side of 95 to get your gun out of your trunk and endanger your life? Maybe to further ensure the safety of police, when pulled over we should be required to throw anything dangerous (guns, knives, nail clippers) out the window, then strip stark naked and spread eagle on the ground. Yeah, that's a little extreme, but my point is we have a right to bear arms, and we shouldn't have to give that up (or get out of our car on the side of a busy highway) when there has not even been a suspicion of a crime or suspicious behavior. At what point are we being put upon to "increase officer safety"?
Chalk it up to the little losses of freedom that we've come to perceive as normal. I live in PA too, and I think we have it pretty easy overall. That officer might not have been comfortable with guns, as many folks who grew up around Philly didn't grow up with guns.
If you had a laptop, I bet they wouldn't try to see if that was stolen unless they had a reason to, so why the gun? It seems to me that the most dangerous time for the officer was before he knew you had a gun, if for example, you were a fugitive or nuts or some other type of dangerous dude. You started out with a loaded gun and didn't shoot him before he knew you had it, so why not just give it back. At that point, you were home free, so you would have had no reason to shoot him.
So you had to leave your car on the side of 95 to get your gun out of your trunk and endanger your life? Maybe to further ensure the safety of police, when pulled over we should be required to throw anything dangerous (guns, knives, nail clippers) out the window, then strip stark naked and spread eagle on the ground. Yeah, that's a little extreme, but my point is we have a right to bear arms, and we shouldn't have to give that up (or get out of our car on the side of a busy highway) when there has not even been a suspicion of a crime or suspicious behavior. At what point are we being put upon to "increase officer safety"?
Chalk it up to the little losses of freedom that we've come to perceive as normal. I live in PA too, and I think we have it pretty easy overall. That officer might not have been comfortable with guns, as many folks who grew up around Philly didn't grow up with guns.
wvshootist
Member
I feel that at the moment the officer realized you had a weapon he was with in his rights to disarm you during the traffic stop. A lot of officers are killed during traffic stops. There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop for a policeman.
It sounded from the story that the officer conducted the stop in a polite and professional manner. A lot of cops would have given you some b.s. lecture about carrying firearms. He gave your gun back and did not cite you. Seems to me like the guy was all right.
It sounded from the story that the officer conducted the stop in a polite and professional manner. A lot of cops would have given you some b.s. lecture about carrying firearms. He gave your gun back and did not cite you. Seems to me like the guy was all right.
Gordon
Member
He got to check out your front compartment when he crawled in AND your trunk. It was a good stop for him! Be surprised what trolling turns up!
Straight Shooter
Member
Sam, I understand what you're saying. But other than tipping his hand by accidentally showing his LTCF I don't think Magic_Man did anything wrong.
If ordered to disarm, you can state that you do not consent but I would suggest complying. You then have the right to file a complaint and/or lawyer up.
Going into his trunk was pushing it. I think that could be considered a search.
I'm not sure about that. I'm not a police officer. I understand that guns make officers nervous. But it doesn't sound like the disarming procedure was very safe for the officer (if I correctly understand how he did it). He had to move around the back of the car, stick his body into the car, get really close to the OP (certainly within grabbing/shooting/stabbing distance), and then back his way out. I dunno, maybe one of our officer members can explain how that was safer than just telling the OP to keep his hands on the wheel (or keep them sticking out of the window).
A side comment: any driver who is pulled over could be a criminal with one or more guns hidden in a car or on his person. If the driver has a CCL, I would presume that he would be less likely to be a criminal or have criminal intentions; unless there is a significant percentage of CCL'ers who are also criminals, which I'll guess there is not.
Yup, he sure did.
Guys! Clearly the OP did exactly as directed by the officer and DID NOT complain about his treatment. Having said that, I tend to agree that the course of action pursued by the officer was unwise.
1. The officer asks about a firearm, and when told the OP is carrying, the officer walks around the vehicle and opens the passenger side door. If the OP was dubious in nature, that is a dead officer! He could have presented his firearm and shot the officer on the other side of the car...stupid move by the LE putting himself in danger.
2. The officer then proceeds to open the door and "come inside" the car. No warrant and no consent makes that illegal if your state honors the vehicle as an extension of the home.
3. The officer removes a loaded firearm from a perfectly safe holster, endangering the OP, and possibly himself. Most AD's come during gun cleaning, or holstering and unholstering. I would never attempt to unholster a gun on someone else's body...way to risky.
4. Officer then runs the gun through his database. This may or may not be legal to do without a warrant or consent, but certainly is not acceptable without some form of just cause or suspicion of a crime. This is a fishing expedition.
5. Officer places gun in trunk, again without warrant. This would be a compelling case for illegal search.
6. OP is left on the side of the road in plain view of other motorists to re-conceal his firearm. This isn't much of a threat, but could cause an issue if OP is not careful.
I have many friends who are cops and I wish them all the safety in the world and would not begrudge them taking steps to stay safe. Having said that, I believe this officer actually introduced far more risk of danger to himself by his actions. If he trusted the OP enough not to shoot him while he walked around the car, having him place his hands out the window at all times would have been just as safe. This wasn't a cop safety issue, it was inexperience, lack of common sense or a fishing expedition. I'm glad it worked out in the end, but it could have been handled much better.
1. The officer asks about a firearm, and when told the OP is carrying, the officer walks around the vehicle and opens the passenger side door. If the OP was dubious in nature, that is a dead officer! He could have presented his firearm and shot the officer on the other side of the car...stupid move by the LE putting himself in danger.
2. The officer then proceeds to open the door and "come inside" the car. No warrant and no consent makes that illegal if your state honors the vehicle as an extension of the home.
3. The officer removes a loaded firearm from a perfectly safe holster, endangering the OP, and possibly himself. Most AD's come during gun cleaning, or holstering and unholstering. I would never attempt to unholster a gun on someone else's body...way to risky.
4. Officer then runs the gun through his database. This may or may not be legal to do without a warrant or consent, but certainly is not acceptable without some form of just cause or suspicion of a crime. This is a fishing expedition.
5. Officer places gun in trunk, again without warrant. This would be a compelling case for illegal search.
6. OP is left on the side of the road in plain view of other motorists to re-conceal his firearm. This isn't much of a threat, but could cause an issue if OP is not careful.
I have many friends who are cops and I wish them all the safety in the world and would not begrudge them taking steps to stay safe. Having said that, I believe this officer actually introduced far more risk of danger to himself by his actions. If he trusted the OP enough not to shoot him while he walked around the car, having him place his hands out the window at all times would have been just as safe. This wasn't a cop safety issue, it was inexperience, lack of common sense or a fishing expedition. I'm glad it worked out in the end, but it could have been handled much better.
sig228
Member
Florida has NO duty to inform.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
Click on the state to pull up that state's gun laws.
sig228
Member
BTW, concealed means CONCEALED. That means your gun, your carry permit, your spare ammo, etc.
Personally, I think you were flashing your permit.
Personally, I think you were flashing your permit.
TCOV
Member
I had a similar reaction from a young state patrolman when he saw my permit next to my drivers license. Took my pistol, emptied it, fortunatly didn't have an accidental discharge. Returned it after giving ticket. Of course with a permit you are pretty much a certified good citizen so I just look at it as cop being a drama queen. I have moved my permit away from my drivers license.
Valkman
Member
I had the same thing done to me here in NV after I handed the NHP officer my carry permit along with my DL. But he was on the passenger side, and after finding out the gun was on my hip he had me step out while keeping my hands in the air. He came around and disarmed me, then took the gun, unloaded it and ran it. Put it back in the rear door of my truck on the floor when he was done.
Yes you feel like a criminal when this happens - you jump through all their hoops to get the "right" to carry and then you get no breaks when they stop you. But cops here run all guns they find so that's not going to change anytime soon. They can always use the excuse "well we don't know if his permit is still good" or "maybe he's commited a crime since the permit was issued".
Yes you feel like a criminal when this happens - you jump through all their hoops to get the "right" to carry and then you get no breaks when they stop you. But cops here run all guns they find so that's not going to change anytime soon. They can always use the excuse "well we don't know if his permit is still good" or "maybe he's commited a crime since the permit was issued".
Personally, I can't believe how many people here have no problems with the officer's actions? Since when does an officer have a right to violate your constitutional rights simply for his own safety? Maybe some of you don't realize this, but the constitution was not written to keep cops safe, it was written to keep us, the citizenry, safe from the government.
This cop endangered the guy, he performed a search of the gun without reasonable cause and without a warrant, he entered areas of the car without a warrant that he was not permitted to enter, all because there's an occasional police shooting?
If the police have the right to disarm us, why don't we have the right to disarm them? I've heard of plenty of times when the police shot someone illegally. They aren't immune to it, any more than the rest of the citizenry is. They certainly don't have the right to violate our rights just in the name of their own safety.
This cop endangered the guy, he performed a search of the gun without reasonable cause and without a warrant, he entered areas of the car without a warrant that he was not permitted to enter, all because there's an occasional police shooting?
If the police have the right to disarm us, why don't we have the right to disarm them? I've heard of plenty of times when the police shot someone illegally. They aren't immune to it, any more than the rest of the citizenry is. They certainly don't have the right to violate our rights just in the name of their own safety.
TCOV
Member
What ChaoSS said.
MountainBear
Member
Magic_Man did nothing wrong. Neither did the officer. He did what he thought was prudent for his safety. I will never argue with that. One of the biggest arguments we make for carrying firearms (besides it being our right) is that we don't always have police protection. Well in this case, Magic_Man did. The officer removed an item that was a potential threat to him. He had no idea that Magic_Man was a stand up individual. He probably is. But a CCW (or whatever it is called in PA) is not always a guarantee that an individual is safe. I'm sorry to disagree with some of you, but no civil rights were violated. Magic_Man got his gun back and was issued a warning. He seems satisfied, if not a bit annoyed, with the outcome, but everything is good.
TCOV
Member
A cop who disarms a permit holder during a minor traffic stop is someone who believes you do not have a right to carry a weapon. They need to take a class on the constitution and if they have so much fear on their job they should maybe get a mill job or work in an office. The bad guys won't tell you they are carrying.
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