Graffiti painter killed by homeowner - news story
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Manedwolf
member
There's a bunch of police-supply and other places on the web that sell them, just like how you can get Winchester Rangers from some suppliers.
The one I'd bought these from went away, though, so I need to find another.
And of course they say only use them in their launcher...they wanna sell you a $1000 rebadged marker.
I wouldn't use them in a $24 Wal-Mart special, of course, they'd likely break and ruin your day. But any decent marker...I use an Armotech Zeus pistol, which also has an underbarrel picatinny rail for a laser or light. (I put an airsoft laser on it...it doesn't recoil hard enough to need a "real" one.) Semiauto, ten rounds. It can be put in a thigh holster, good for post-disaster walkaround in case of non-life-threatening trouble.
You can also get Pepperball training balls with scented powder in them, good to test your marker with to see if it functions. And just NEVER use actual paintballs in the marker, then pepperballs...keep it dedicated to those.
bosshoff
Member
When I am finally chosen to be Emperor
My first official decree after being placed on the throne will be that "All persons being caught tagging/vandalizing/spray painting grafitti, as a first offense, will have the thumb of their dominant hand snipped off with a Felco garden pruner."
Until I take over, snap a photo, and call 911.
My first official decree after being placed on the throne will be that "All persons being caught tagging/vandalizing/spray painting grafitti, as a first offense, will have the thumb of their dominant hand snipped off with a Felco garden pruner."
Until I take over, snap a photo, and call 911.
Some general advice.
1. Never bet your life on someone else's sanity. People are REMARKABLY bad at being able to determine when someone is going to snap.
2. Never stay around or be a person who so much as hints that shooting someone over a relatively minor issue (e.g. graffiti) is a good idea.
1. Never bet your life on someone else's sanity. People are REMARKABLY bad at being able to determine when someone is going to snap.
2. Never stay around or be a person who so much as hints that shooting someone over a relatively minor issue (e.g. graffiti) is a good idea.
Jamie C.
Member
Try to keep in mind that it's all relative, too...
What's minor to you may be major to someone else... especially under the right...or wrong... circumstances.
As for judging MY sanity... go ahead. But I should tell you I already have paperwork claiming I'm sane.
( Passed my psych exam for the S.O.'s office with no trouble, and also was re-evaluated when I was diagnosed with migraines, here a few years ago. No problems then either. )
And yes, I'd still shoot a gang banger for tagging my house, if need be.
Fortunately, for both them and me, there aren't too many to be found, here in the hills of Tennessee....
Only the occasional gang-banging deer, opossum, or raccoon.... And maybe a coyote, every now and then.
J.C.
What's minor to you may be major to someone else... especially under the right...or wrong... circumstances.
As for judging MY sanity... go ahead. But I should tell you I already have paperwork claiming I'm sane.
( Passed my psych exam for the S.O.'s office with no trouble, and also was re-evaluated when I was diagnosed with migraines, here a few years ago. No problems then either. )
And yes, I'd still shoot a gang banger for tagging my house, if need be.
Fortunately, for both them and me, there aren't too many to be found, here in the hills of Tennessee....
Only the occasional gang-banging deer, opossum, or raccoon.... And maybe a coyote, every now and then.
J.C.
FPrice
Member
Read Howie Carr's book The Brothers Bulger and then try saying that.
IndianaDon
Member
We used to live in Minneapolis---my wife is a scientist and joined the university there for a spell before moving on to a better situation. We were in the then up & coming Northeast part of town; formerly working class, shifting to trendy artsy-university types. Shortly after we moved in, we noticed a freshly painted “Aryan Nation” insignia stenciled on the cement wall that held back the berm of the neighbor’s yard just across the alley from our driveway. It was located so that we would see it driving to and looking from our garage. I am white; my wife is Asian, then the only non-white living in the immediate area. I asked the neighbors about it, bein’ their property and all, and they said they didn’t want to get involved---they chose to leave the calling card where it was. I went out with some deck paint so we wouldn’t have to look at it. “You are just asking for trouble,” my pacifist neighbor told me. Not long afterwards we saw on the news that a Korean church several blocks to the north was vandalized and swastikas were spray painted on and in it. Police concluded it was the work of the “Aryan Nation.” No one was ever caught…
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I guess I grew up out in the country. To vandalize my parents house, those guys would have had to come 100 yards down the drive way. That to me is a bit more than just petty graffiti. These guys weren't just painting on a fence, they were painting threats right on their house. That is serious vandalism and very threatening behavior to me. The fact that this was gang business only demonstrates the character of the people involved, it doesn't change the situation a great deal.
Also, they were spray painting written threats on the house according to some on here. No telling what threats or moves were made in person before shots were fired either.
Also, they were spray painting written threats on the house according to some on here. No telling what threats or moves were made in person before shots were fired either.
gitarmac
Member
"Come on, is anyone here seriously advocating the use of deadly force against some kids spray-painting a wall?"
THey weren't kids they were 19 year old gangbangers. No big loss I say. Not saying I would do it but kudos for anyone that does.
THey weren't kids they were 19 year old gangbangers. No big loss I say. Not saying I would do it but kudos for anyone that does.
Perfect result. Two less gang bangers. First the dead tagger, second the guy that shot him isn't going to have the means to fight it, and he's going to jail, for a long time. Actually three, because, if the cops do their job, they will have the third guy as an accessory, if even for a brief time.
S
Two less gang bangers. First the dead tagger, second the guy that shot him isn't going to have the means to fight it, and he's going to jail, for a long time. Actually three, because, if the cops do their job, they will have the third guy as an accessory, if even for a brief time.S
Lupinus
Member
would have to depend on what the ywere vandalizing.
If they were spray painting my tree of course not.
If they were spray painting my brand new car that is now going to need a paint job costing hundreds of dollars or a custom motercycle with a paint job that literaly can't be replaced cause it would be impossible to do exactly the same over agian then they just might get a wave from Mr. Winchester.
A few dollars of damage is one thing, serious damage is quite another.
If they were spray painting my tree of course not.
If they were spray painting my brand new car that is now going to need a paint job costing hundreds of dollars or a custom motercycle with a paint job that literaly can't be replaced cause it would be impossible to do exactly the same over agian then they just might get a wave from Mr. Winchester.
A few dollars of damage is one thing, serious damage is quite another.
Jim March
Member
There are various possible messages behind a tag.
One is: "I'm a dumb punk kid into vandalism."
Another is a bit more serious: "We're a gang selling drugs out of your apartment building. We own your home, your hall, your driveway and we own YOU if you even hint at getting in our way...and by the way, here's the drugs we're selling by name, AND we're brewing toxic meth in your basement in a building where kids live and we're probably incompetent and gonna blow the whole place up."
I've seen that sort of tag, in my building. I've smelled the lab in my basement. I didn't shoot them. But I did use a can of black spray paint to draw a skull'n'crossbones all over their biggest "drugs for sale here" tag at 2:00am with a snubbie in my front right pocket. (And yeah, they split, they figured somebody was ready to stand up to them and they were right. The police reaction to the "countertag" was to laugh out loud.)
If the "taggers" had seen me there might have been a shootout, and in Richmond Calif it would have been described as "evil gun owner shoots taggers for thrills".
I trust people around here might see it differently.
That's not necessarily saying the 17 year old in this story was in the right. He probably wasn't.
Just don't take the media reports at face value because every once in a while, what they call "taggers" is something else entirely.
One is: "I'm a dumb punk kid into vandalism."
Another is a bit more serious: "We're a gang selling drugs out of your apartment building. We own your home, your hall, your driveway and we own YOU if you even hint at getting in our way...and by the way, here's the drugs we're selling by name, AND we're brewing toxic meth in your basement in a building where kids live and we're probably incompetent and gonna blow the whole place up."
I've seen that sort of tag, in my building. I've smelled the lab in my basement. I didn't shoot them. But I did use a can of black spray paint to draw a skull'n'crossbones all over their biggest "drugs for sale here" tag at 2:00am with a snubbie in my front right pocket. (And yeah, they split, they figured somebody was ready to stand up to them and they were right. The police reaction to the "countertag" was to laugh out loud.)
If the "taggers" had seen me there might have been a shootout, and in Richmond Calif it would have been described as "evil gun owner shoots taggers for thrills".
I trust people around here might see it differently.
That's not necessarily saying the 17 year old in this story was in the right. He probably wasn't.
Just don't take the media reports at face value because every once in a while, what they call "taggers" is something else entirely.
rock jock
Member
Criminal activity flourishes where it is not confronted immediately and aggresively.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Some people around here make me think that a little gun control might not be a bad thing. I'm not sure anyone who advocates shooting someone for vandalism ought to be allowed to have guns.
And if that crosses my mind, think for a second why John Q Citizen might be apt to support gun control.
IOW, if you have stupid ideas, please don't go braying them on internet forums.
And if that crosses my mind, think for a second why John Q Citizen might be apt to support gun control.
IOW, if you have stupid ideas, please don't go braying them on internet forums.
Beachmaster
Member
I am!
Taggers are basically low level terrorists. They cause more harm to a community than a thief or even a murderer.
Their graffiti causes neighborhoods to fall into despair, and brands an area as worthless. Graffiti send the message to the community that its now a slum, run by criminals.
Read all the posts in just this thread on graffiti, and you will see examples of people who just gave up trying to cover the graffiti up, or just were scared to cover it up. One should not feel scared in their home, or community. Terrorists want you scared, and thats what these so called "vandals" want. They want you too scared to call the police. and when a community is covered in graffiti, the police belive (wrongly) that the community just doesn't care about itself, so why should they. Now the area is under control of criminals.
Graffiti in an area hurts everybody, not just the people behind the wall its painted on. It drives housing prices in the area down, causes good citizens to move out of a community, and drives away businesses from an area.
Left unchecked, graffiti alone can take a good neighborhood and turn it into a slum.
oldfart
Member
I live in a neighborhood that gets a lot of grafitti and it certainly does lower the value of property.
To give a slightly different view of the subject, let me tell about an incident that happened here one morning.
I heard a noise on my back porch and picked up a pistol to go investigate since we had been the victims of several petty thefts over the previous months. As expected, a 'homeless' man was going through some boxes to find bottles and cans to sell for the refund money (a nickle each here in Oregon.) I opend the door and he didn't even look up until he heard me cock the hammer. He then just asked, "Are you willing to shoot someone for a few bottles?"
I replied, "Are you willing to die for them?"
He left, emptyhanded. Would I have shot him? I don't know, but he didn't either. Since then we've not had anything stolen from our yard, porch or car. The word must have gotten around.
To give a slightly different view of the subject, let me tell about an incident that happened here one morning.
I heard a noise on my back porch and picked up a pistol to go investigate since we had been the victims of several petty thefts over the previous months. As expected, a 'homeless' man was going through some boxes to find bottles and cans to sell for the refund money (a nickle each here in Oregon.) I opend the door and he didn't even look up until he heard me cock the hammer. He then just asked, "Are you willing to shoot someone for a few bottles?"
I replied, "Are you willing to die for them?"
He left, emptyhanded. Would I have shot him? I don't know, but he didn't either. Since then we've not had anything stolen from our yard, porch or car. The word must have gotten around.
Jamie C.
Member
You mean, ideas like "Let the criminals do whatever they want... destroy property, deal drugs, commit assault, murder, etc. Just close your eyes and pretend they aren't there, and maybe they'll go away and not bother/maim/kill you"?
Stupid ideas like that? If so, I agree people should keep that crap to themselves.
J.C.
P.S. "John Q. Citizen" is a mindless sheep, who thinks somebody else is supposed to take care of him, and is convinced that the police will save him from harm, and that the politician really do know best.
This is not somebody I want to be, or to look to for advice on how to handle "life's little difficulties", if you know what I mean.
J.
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Vermont Guy
Member
Beachmaster +1
It is the effect of graffiti on the neighborhood which Beachmaster described so well that elevates the seriousness of the act beyond the simple defacing of property.
It is the effect of graffiti on the neighborhood which Beachmaster described so well that elevates the seriousness of the act beyond the simple defacing of property.
Mannlicher
Member
the graffiti 'taggers' should be fair game. They have zero consideration for the rights and property of others. That one got himself killed should not come as a surprise.
ReadyontheRight
Member
What response SHOULD a person expect when you decide to go and spray-paint another person's property?
We're not talking a bridge or government building. We're talking the side of a person's home.
Shooting is certainly not the answer...but what IS the answer?
This Harvard-Educated Native American decides that it is perfectly OK to go up and "tag" private property because of some "dissing" he got. Seems to me that he was escalating a situation that was going to turn out bad for someone anyway.
A sadly harsh lesson in civility.
We're not talking a bridge or government building. We're talking the side of a person's home.
Shooting is certainly not the answer...but what IS the answer?
This Harvard-Educated Native American decides that it is perfectly OK to go up and "tag" private property because of some "dissing" he got. Seems to me that he was escalating a situation that was going to turn out bad for someone anyway.
A sadly harsh lesson in civility.
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