Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Customer Service, the good and bad.

[NWcityguy2]

I recently bought a defective barrel from Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Company, and just finished dealing with their customer service for a replacement product. There isn't much out there with people talking about their customer service, beyond barrel recalls, so I thought I'd type out my experiences. Maybe in the future someone will find the useful.

For those who don't know, Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Company is an OEM barrel maker. They are known for making AR, AK, Ruger 10-22 and Black Powder barrels. These barrel are sold both on their website and rebranded under other company names. Almost all the reviews about them I have seen have been positive, along with one that I posted on this forum myself. With that said, on to my experience.

The Bad
Obviously any time someone buys a defective product, there is going to be some frustrations. This is certainly going to be compounded when it is bought off the internet and there is no store front to deal with directly. For me, I bought their GM-M49 barrel (http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m49-223wylde-barrel/), which is a Nitride finished, 18" 416SS barrel that is in an SPR profile. When I got it, it would not shoot anything consistently under 2", and multiple loads with quality varmint/match bullets shot over 3". The barrel doesn't come specifically with an accuracy guaranty, but I was disappointed given how well much more affordable AR barrels can shoot these days. Charging $200+ for a SS barrel puts it in a price range where it should be at least shooting 1" groups with some loads.

So I called customer service and explained to some lady my problem. She didn't seem like she either; cared in the least, or, was a gun person. She explained to me that their return policy listed on their website was void, because I shot the barrel. (It doesn't say anything even close to that on their stated policy) If I would ship it back on my dime, which their return policy does state, they would give it an inspection. If after that inspection they felt the product was defective, they would replace it. If it wasn't, I was on the hook for shipping it back to me. Also, there was no RMA number. She just referred me to the website for shipping instructions, making the whole process of calling the number provided as pointless. But since I already had $225 tied up in the barrel I went ahead and shipped it back.

The Good
They received my barrel on Monday and called me within 24 hours. I spoke with a man named Michael, who said they bore scoped the barrel and did find an irregularity in the bore. He described it as a raised ring about 2" from the muzzle, and said that they would replace the barrel for free. He had their QC department look over the new barrel to ensure there would be no similar problems and shipped it 3-day air for free. He also told me to call him and tell him how the new barrel is grouping when I get it installed on my upper.

Conclusion
I've always been one to accept that every company lets a bad product out the door every once in a while, and that's the point of a warranty. In my case, they honored the warranty even if it felt like a bit of a dog and pony show at first. I still am irritated that they state one return policy online, but another one over the phone. However, it ended up not mattering, and in the end I did get to speak to someone who sounded like they really cared.

 

[bfoosh006]

I am glad they were forthright in the barrels issues.

I am also interested in your new barrels accuracy results.

I will offer a suggestion for a 77gr SMK ammo... Creedmoor Sports .223 round... It shoots very well and it is reasonably priced ( $35 / 50 rds. )

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I've only had experience with their barrels on the blackpowder side.

Those experiences have been outstanding.

I'm interested in how their barrel shoots for you.

Was it a cut-rifled barrel, or a button-rifled barrel?

 

[RPRNY]

Thanks for a well written review of your experience. Hopefully it helps other consumers make informed decisions based on a well presented case study.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have heard mixed things about their black powder barrels.

 

[Bart B.]

When Ruger built 16 rifles to donate to the USA Palma Team, they all had Green Mountain barrels. Some 6-groove, others 4-groove. The 4-groove ones shot most accurate. The one with best accuracy at 1000 yards shot test groups about 2 MOA (20"), worst barrel almost 4 MOA.

Team members were used to their Obermeyer, Kreiger and Border barrels testing 3/4 MOA at worst.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I've only had experience with their barrels on the blackpowder side.

Those experiences have been outstanding.

I'm interested in how their barrel shoots for you.

Was it a cut-rifled barrel, or a button-rifled barrel?

It was button rifled. I don't think any of their AR replacement barrels have cut rifling, or at least I haven't seen any advertised as such.

 

[LoonWulf]

I for one appreciate the write up. I feel you covered the issues, how they were handled, and the out come fairly.

Ive had a couple GM 10/22 barrels and found them as good as any of the others. Never had to deal with CS, but the reaction isnt horribly unusual from what ive seen with my other dealing with CS.
There are alot of turdlers who buy stuff decide they dont want it, then try return the product as "defective". Honestly i blame them for the state of customer service these days.
Generaly those of us who have a real claim usually get harassed a little then taken care of properly.

 

[salt&battery]

I recently bought a defective barrel from Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Company, and just finished dealing with their customer service for a replacement product. There isn't much out there with people talking about their customer service, beyond barrel recalls, so I thought I'd type out my experiences. Maybe in the future someone will find the useful.

For those who don't know, Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Company is an OEM barrel maker. They are known for making AR, AK, Ruger 10-22 and Black Powder barrels. These barrel are sold both on their website and rebranded under other company names. Almost all the reviews about them I have seen have been positive, along with one that I posted on this forum myself. With that said, on to my experience.

The Bad
Obviously any time someone buys a defective product, there is going to be some frustrations. This is certainly going to be compounded when it is bought off the internet and there is no store front to deal with directly. For me, I bought their GM-M49 barrel (http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m49-223wylde-barrel/), which is a Nitride finished, 18" 416SS barrel that is in an SPR profile. When I got it, it would not shoot anything consistently under 2", and multiple loads with quality varmint/match bullets shot over 3". The barrel doesn't come specifically with an accuracy guaranty, but I was disappointed given how well much more affordable AR barrels can shoot these days. Charging $200+ for a SS barrel puts it in a price range where it should be at least shooting 1" groups with some loads.

So I called customer service and explained to some lady my problem. She didn't seem like she either; cared in the least, or, was a gun person. She explained to me that their return policy listed on their website was void, because I shot the barrel. (It doesn't say anything even close to that on their stated policy) If I would ship it back on my dime, which their return policy does state, they would give it an inspection. If after that inspection they felt the product was defective, they would replace it. If it wasn't, I was on the hook for shipping it back to me. Also, there was no RMA number. She just referred me to the website for shipping instructions, making the whole process of calling the number provided as pointless. But since I already had $225 tied up in the barrel I went ahead and shipped it back.

The Good
They received my barrel on Monday and called me within 24 hours. I spoke with a man named Michael, who said they bore scoped the barrel and did find an irregularity in the bore. He described it as a raised ring about 2" from the muzzle, and said that they would replace the barrel for free. He had their QC department look over the new barrel to ensure there would be no similar problems and shipped it 3-day air for free. He also told me to call him and tell him how the new barrel is grouping when I get it installed on my upper.

Conclusion
I've always been one to accept that every company lets a bad product out the door every once in a while, and that's the point of a warranty. In my case, they honored the warranty even if it felt like a bit of a dog and pony show at first. I still am irritated that they state one return policy online, but another one over the phone. However, it ended up not mattering, and in the end I did get to speak to someone who sounded like they really cared.

most barrel makers after you getting 2 inch groups would say that was acceptable and not bad for a semi auto. hard to believe it did not shoot bigger groups with a bulge in the barrel

 

[NWcityguy2]

I got the new barrel today. So there was a total of a 4 day turn around from when they received my barrel with my written explanation, to when I received my replacement. Very fast turn around time. It looks good, free of any defects that I can see. I'll get it mounted up and test it on my days off early next week. I do have high hopes and I do think Green Mountain makes a quality product. Perhaps not up to high level Palma competition, but competitive multi-gun is less equipment intensive by it's very nature.

most barrel makers after you getting 2 inch groups would say that was acceptable and not bad for a semi auto. hard to believe it did not shoot bigger groups with a bulge in the barrel

If 2" is the best I could do with a barrel, and I'm talking match bullets, trimmed cases and hand weighed powder charges, I'd just go buy another barrel. The price of the barrel is dwarfed by the price of the ammo I'll shoot through it over the next few years. If 2" is what I can do with quality bulk bullets, powder charges from a scooper or hopper, and not messing with the brass all that much, I'll be satisfied as long as I can tighten the groups up with a little more effort. I don't think some people realize that doubling a circle's diameter is actually making it's area 4x as big. Mathematically, a 2" groups is four times the size of a 1" group.

 

[salt&battery]

I got the new barrel today. So there was a total of a 4 day turn around from when they received my barrel with my written explanation, to when I received my replacement. Very fast turn around time. It looks good, free of any defects that I can see. I'll get it mounted up and test it on my days off early next week. I do have high hopes and I do think Green Mountain makes a quality product. Perhaps not up to high level Palma competition, but competitive multi-gun is less equipment intensive by it's very nature.



If 2" is the best I could do with a barrel, and I'm talking match bullets, trimmed cases and hand weighed powder charges, I'd just go buy another barrel. The price of the barrel is dwarfed by the price of the ammo I'll shoot through it over the next few years. If 2" is what I can do with quality bulk bullets, powder charges from a scooper or hopper, and not messing with the brass all that much, I'll be satisfied as long as I can tighten the groups up with a little more effort. I don't think some people realize that doubling a circle's diameter is actually making it's area 4x as big. Mathematically, a 2" groups is four times the size of a 1" group.

yes but a two inch group is also only one inch from the aiming point. barrels on used or new guns are a roll of the dice. you should maybe have gotten tighter groups but I had a competition bushmaster with matched bolt and barrel target trigger lead weight in the stock etc and mine shot like yours . I contacted them and they said that was close to acceptable accuracy and they would not look at it. I have seen $1500 AR shoot 1 1/2 groups. what twist is the barrel and what weight match bullets did you use

 

[NWcityguy2]

yes but a two inch group is also only one inch from the aiming point.

I honestly don't see how wording it a different way negates A = πr2

what twist is the barrel and what weight match bullets did you use

The twist was 1:8. I used bullets from Speer, Hornady and Nosler, in weights from 50gr to 75gr. I tried 9 bullets in total.

 

[barnbwt]

most barrel makers after you getting 2 inch groups would say that was acceptable and not bad for a semi auto. hard to believe it did not shoot bigger groups with a bulge in the barrel

It is always surprising how well a barrel will do with a good crown, despite the bore. The worst ones are when the barrel is installed backward, and instead of narrowing slightly (if at all) toward the muzzle, it opens up more than a thousandth or so; that's where the barn-missers come from (and why poor cleaning practices are so bad, even excepting crown damage)

It was mentioned, all GMs barrel are buttoned; it's why they are cheap, but also why they can be hit or miss on occasion if the button is worn or hits a spot of hard metal. It is most noticeable when turning them down to narrow diameters, and the barrel warps from internal stresses that weren't quite relieved during normalization. I understand cut rifled or nicer blanks won't do that nearly as much. Good luck finding a 30-50$ barrel blank for your AR or subgun or bolt rifle, though.

TCB

 

[Bart B.]

The worst ones are when the barrel is installed backward, and instead of narrowing slightly (if at all) toward the muzzle, it opens up more than a thousandth or so; that's where the barn-missers come from (and why poor cleaning practices are so bad, even excepting crown damage)

What evidence exists that barrels are ever installed backwards?

Which ones of the top ranked match rifle barrel makers intentionally taper their barrels' bore and groove diameters tighter at the muzzle?

How do broaches, buttons or single point cutters make bores tighter at the muzzle?

I don't think the muzzle being belled out .001" or more by cleaning rod wear hurts accuracy. Never did on the four Garand barrels I wore out and others with the same thing happening never saw a loss of accuracy. Was interesting to see no copper wash the last half inch of the bore after a couple thousand rounds and cleaning after every 50 or so rounds the solid steel cleaning rods wore away the metal. Erosion gauge would go in reading 1 to 2 numbers higher than when new; proof the bore had opened up .001" to .002" in diameter at the muzzle.

 

[Jackal]

Not disparaging GM barrels, but for $225, you can get a LaRue barrel.

 

[barnbwt]

What evidence exists that barrels are ever installed backwards?

Which ones of the top ranked match rifle barrel makers intentionally taper their barrels' bore and groove diameters tighter at the muzzle?

How do broaches, buttons or single point cutters make bores tighter at the muzzle?

I don't think the muzzle being belled out .001" or more by cleaning rod wear hurts accuracy. Never did on the four Garand barrels I wore out and others with the same thing happening never saw a loss of accuracy. Was interesting to see no copper wash the last half inch of the bore after a couple thousand rounds and cleaning after every 50 or so rounds the solid steel cleaning rods wore away the metal. Erosion gauge would go in reading 1 to 2 numbers higher than when new; proof the bore had opened up .001" to .002" in diameter at the muzzle.

look up what a barrel blank is sometime.

 

[barnbwt]

Not disparaging GM barrels, but for $225, you can get a LaRue barrel.

Yeah, I don't get why they are trying to compete in the overheated AR market; blanks are where they are actually competitive, and supplying finished barrel to budget makers like Century for oddball platforms (like back when AKs or VZs were less commonly produced stateside)

 

[Skylerbone]

Glad to hear it worked out for you, though I'm none too impressed with the way they treated you up to the decision to replace the barrel. For the money, I too would be inclined to seek out a different maker, but that's simply personal choice.

 

[Bart B.]

look up what a barrel blank is sometime.

I've done that; several times. And watched home made button riflers pull the button through gun drilled then reamed blanks. Same with WWII era Pratt and Whitney single point riflers twist the barrels pulling the hook cutter removing .0004" of metal from the groove with each stroke before being set for that much deeper the next time for the next increment.

Nowhere has any mention of tapered bore/groove diameters as all the barrel makers I've talked with ensure those dimensions are the same throughout the fininised barrel length because they hand lap then air gauge or hole gauge them for uniformity. And 99% plus of all finished barrel blanks made are tapered from breech to muzzle some amount. Their data's usually stamped on the breech end. It would take a backwards thinking person to install one backwards. But it wouldn't matter if they were so installed. With the bore and groove dimensions equal throughout, the bullets would never know the difference. And the muzzle heavy contour would help improve accuracy in some instances. Some people put adjustable weights on barrel's muzzle ends to do that.

Now, please answer my three questions..

 

[Offfhand]

Which ones of the top ranked match rifle barrel makers intentionally taper their barrels' bore and groove diameters tighter at the muzzle?

Well, that might depend on who you call a top ranked match barrel maker. Considering the Gold Medals won in Olympic and other competitions with Anschutz rifles, they may qualify. A few years back they made and advertised their top-of-the-line match rifle having a tapered bore, and even demonstrated how they did it. I still have one.

 

[barnbwt]

Look up "allowable tolerances" and the slugging of barrels at your leisure; there is *always* a taper in the direction of the button, this is why the stamp the end the button starts at. Not all smiths understand why, or keep track of it.

 

[Bart B.]

Why are so many center fire match barrel's lapped to uniform bore/groove diameters?

Both of my Anschutz 1911's factory barrels have uniform diameters; no taper.

All of the Hart, Obermeyer and Kreiger 30 caliber barrels I've had have no taper inside.

Yes, the button rifled Hart's had a slight taper to start with. Then Al Hauser lapped them to uniform dimensions +/- .0001" in their usable section starting an inch or two back from each end.

 

[rskent]

Mathematically, a 2" groups is four times the size of a 1" group.

No it’s not. A 2” group has 4 times the area of a 1” group.

As far as I know groups are measured across their widest point.

 

[Bart B.]

I don't think some people realize that doubling a circle's diameter is actually making it's area 4x as big. Mathematically, a 2" groups is four times the size of a 1" group.

True, but you're the first person I know of that uses the area encircling all shots in a group as its size. The decades old standard is extreme spread of the two widest shot hole centers. Which part of the bullet hole is your reference; inner edge, center or outer edge?

Except in Great Britain were they use the outer edge of the two widest shot holes. A 1" group with each of all 30 caliber bullets by most standards, in Great Britian would be somewhere between 1.306" to 1.309" depending on the barrel's groove diameter.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I view it that way because with reactive targets a bullet either hits or misses, but beyond that a hit is a hit no matter where it lands on the target. The bigger the groups the rifle shoots, the more likely it becomes that well placed shots are missing the target when the aim is on the target, but no necessarily perfect.