Green River Knife

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Was at the gunshop yesterday, found some ammo,primers, a shield plus at a decent price, this shop has an actual knife center and bar with a guy that sharpens and strops blades for you. I wasn't intending to o buy a knife but I saw this one with a somewhat clip point I thought it was a neat design and since it was made in America for 30 bucks I thought I'd take a shot in the dark. Needs a sheath but I think the profile would be an excellent EDC knife. IMG_20220217_124950213_HDR.jpg
 
The Russell Green River knives are true blue, American blades, and if any knife brand can be said to have won the West, it was the Green River knives.

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The bicentennial models came in nice boxes and have ebony wood grips. I suspect they were all 420 stainless. Originally Russell sold the knives with a paper label on the handle proclaiming the knife to be a genuine Russell and made of the best materials. You will see paper labels on the same patterns today, but mine all fell off.

John Russell came out with those patterns in 1836, used the best English Sheffield steels, and priced them cost competitively. Yours is a five inch "Hunter", and is a very handy knife.

This is a Russel eating knife and fork

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The wide blade, rounded and blunted back, reveal this to be an eating knife. The diner rolled his peas, etc, on to the blade and ate them that way. This cut into the profits of the cutlery manufacturer's, who wanted to sell lots of spoons, and so, the influencers in print called the practice boorish. Elites, who had more money than brains, thought anyone who ate off a knife to be a Hilly Billy, because they read that in a newspaper or magazine.
 
Long ago I would buy blades so marked from Indian Ridge Traders out of Ferndale, MI. I would make scales (smooth, not checkered) epoxy and pin them on, and sell at craft and gun shows. This brings back many good memories. They are solid working knives, some still produced by Dexter-Russell, which claims to be the oldest knife maker in the US.
 
Long ago I would buy blades so marked from Indian Ridge Traders out of Ferndale, MI. I would make scales (smooth, not checkered) epoxy and pin them on, and sell at craft and gun shows. This brings back many good memories. They are solid working knives, some still produced by Dexter-Russell, which claims to be the oldest knife maker in the US.
Mine says Russell Green River Works, any idea on the type of carbon steel?
 
Some were stainless as noted above, but the ones I used were a carbon steel. I don't recall the exact steel used, but suspect it was 1095 or something similar. They took a nice edge, and were a dream to sharpen.
 
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. . . for 30 bucks I thought I'd take a shot in the dark. View attachment 1060841

They are a good knife. I have 2 right here.
FWIW if you get ready for another one, you
can buy those for about 12-15 dollars from
a restaurant supply company. Most that
carry dexter russell have an extensive
selection of them to choose from.

They are good knives with good steel, and
you can use and abuse them without
shedding any tears if lost or damaged
 
Mine says Russell Green River Works, any idea on the type of carbon steel?

This is for modern Green River knives, and since there is no law against Russell Dexter changing the steel at a moments notice, all we can say, Dexter Russell uses or used 1095.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/green_river_knives.html

"The blade is Type C1095 carbon steel, very similar to Type O1 tool steel," said the improbably named Buck Raper, manager of engineering at the Russell works. "We have heat treated and tempered it to a Rockwell hardness of 55-56. It can be treated to a higher Rockwell, but we think this is the best tradeoff between brittleness and flexibility for a knife blade."

The next high carbon blade steel could be 1075, 1084, or whatever is the cheapest at that moment on the spot market.

This will give an idea of blank costs: https://www.makermaterialsupply.com/collections/high-carbon-blade-steel

For the historical, and I mean at the start of the company, what I have read in books and on the web,

http://www.mman.us/jrussellco.htm

Late in 1833, Russell completed a factory, powered by a 16-horsepower steam engine. Machinery included a row of grindstones and emery stones, and two or three trip hammers for forging steel. Russell did not start immediately in the manufacture of knives, but choose to start with chisels and axes. Using only the finest English steels available as raw material, his products quickly earned a local reputation for quality.


John Russell imported Sheffield steel, which for the time, was a high quality plain carbon steel. Benjamin Huntsman developed a process using local Sheffield clays containers, "crucibles". Local clays happened to have all the herbs and spices necessary to make a very clean steel, and the limestone used in the refractory. In the background of the picture from the referenced article, you can see original clay pots.

A Crucible of Steel History

https://www.westyorkssteel.com/blog/a-crucible-of-steel-history/

Crucible-image.png

I have copied a bit from this page on the making of Sheffield crucible steel.

Crucible Steel-making

https://h2g2.com/approved_entry/A2960660

The Process Enacted - Clay

The first job was to make the crucible itself. The detailed geometry changed little over the last century of its use, except for a progressive increase in overall size. From the outside, the crucible was vase-like in form, tapering out from its base and curving in again at the lip. At something like 600mm in ultimate height and 300mm in fullest outer diameter, its graceful shape would not have looked out of place in a domestic setting.

In one respect, though, a crucible was not at all vase-like. The wall thickness was considerable, at around 70mm. This vessel had to accommodate a significant weight of molten steel at temperatures close to the limit of infusibility, and to retain strength for two or three casts in spite of progressive erosion.

The clay recipe was a closely-guarded secret, and the preparation was fastidious. Stannington clay from the northwest of the city made the bulk, with additions of Stourbridge, Derby or sometimes China clay. Strength prior to firing was assured by incorporating coke breeze2 and 'grog' - the latter being fragments of used crucibles, smashed to dust.

A carefully-measured volume of water was mixed with the dry material, and the mortar was shovelled into floor-level trays. It was then trodden with bare feet for about three hours - no better way of driving out air bubbles was ever developed, and untrodden mortar frequently failed in firing or (worse) in use, weakened by these imperceptible voids.

The dense and homogeneous product was then weighed and hand-formed into roughly cylindrical blocks, before being placed in a lathe-turned wooden mould known as a 'flask'. The inside surface of the flask formed the outer profile of the crucible, and was usually lubricated with oil of creosote. The bottom of the flask consisted of an unattached but close-fitting circular 'plate' in which there was a central hole.

The initial profile had to taper all the way from the base (lacking as yet the narrowing at the top) as a result of the constraints of manufacture. There was a wooden 'plug', also turned and oiled, that was driven evenly into the flask using a mallet. Existent examples of this mallet are improbably small in size, presumably to enforce a gradual, and therefore repeatable, forming of the wall through a large number of progressive deformations. A spike on the end of the plug engaged with the hole in the plate, ensuring alignment and uniformity of wall thickness.

A strickle was used to trim off the excess clay, and the plug was drawn out. The flask was placed on the 'tree', a vertical post set in the ground (a surviving example is an iron billet). A spigot on top of the tree once again engaged with the hole in the plate, this time from the other side. The flask was carefully pulled off downwards, leaving the part-formed crucible standing on the plate atop the post.

Transferring the still-soft pot to a workbench was not a trivial task either. Tools for handling and supporting the 'green' crucible during transport were varied, but nonetheless specialized. Examples included spoon-like sheet steel shells, or shaped leather bags. Overhead rails and slings with pulleys were developed to negotiate progress round the workshop.

Once on the bench, the top was gently shaped using a bucket-like metal mould called a 'bonnet'. The curvature at the top of the crucible was vital for its strength. This was the final shaping operation in wet clay, and was thus a fraught point in the process. 'Turning in', even more than the other operations of the clay-shop, was regarded as a job for practiced hands.

Crucibles were made a long time in advance of their use. After final shaping, they were left to air-dry for up to a week, before being transferred to racks adjacent to the furnace where a flow of warm air would complete the drying process. A common position for these racks was high on the stack wall directly above the melting holes. A typical duration for this final drying phase was one month.

There were two other components made in the clay-shop too. The simpler ones were the 'stands', flat circular discs about 70mm thick which would later be used to seal the crucible base. Apprentice 'potmakers' were given stands to fashion as their first task. Later they would make lids to fit the crucible mouth. These were also circular, and domed in profile.

I have no idea if Russell used Sheffield crucible steel until the end of its production period, about 1914, or not. Starting in the 1870's the Bessemer process revolutionized the production of plain carbon steels, other better processes followed, and labor intensive, small quantity production processes, such as Sheffield crucible steel, simply were priced out of the market.
 
I've had one of those Old Hickory 6" boning blades for many years (and it is a stiff blade - not particularly flexible at all..). It resides on my rodbuilding and reel repairing bench within handy reach... . It's a great general purpose blade with a good tough edge that will hold it's sharpness despite cutting through cork handles on rod repairs as well and cutting away long cured epoxy glue on a variety of fishing rod handles and other utility work. I also like it as a last ditch, sudden defensive weapon, despite not having a guard or the other usual items on a blade meant for close quarters work... It's only drawback (and the same goes for many of the blades shown in this thread ..) is the great carbon steel that will rust if you even get it near saltwater where I am most days...

I can remember that years ago, if I ever needed one it could be found for sale in almost any grocery store - ready to go for very little cost... Can't remember when that came to an end - but haven't seen one in any local grocery stores in a while..
 
Buck Raper said:
"The blade is Type C1095 carbon steel, very similar to Type O1 tool steel,"
I can't find any information on C1095 steel. I'm going to assume that he means 1095CV.

I'm not sure I would agree with the comment that 1095CV is "very similar to O1 tool steel. I would agree that it is more similar to O1 than regular 1095 is--maybe that's what he means.

While the carbon and chrome content are reasonably similar, O1 contains Tungsten while 1095CV does not. 1095CV contains Molybdenum, O1 does not. Finally, O1 has slightly higher levels of Vanadium and Nickel, 2x the Silicon content and about 3x the Manganese content.

None of that says that 1095CV is a bad steel, or that O1 is a better steel for knives--I'm just not sure they're "very similar".
 
Found another Old Hickory knife I had: a 6" Boning knife. Think I got this one from Atlanta Cutlery many, many moons ago!
View attachment 1061154
I have several of these
I have one that was given to me that's
old enough to not have a handle stamp.
There was a couple of years I used one
as a do-it-all knife for hunting, and there
wasn't any hardships.
There's many that sing the praises of
the mora knives, and this is basically
the same thing except longer and
handier
 
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