Gun control and firearm burying questions

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tango3065

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Do you think it is possible that someday we could be banned from owning guns and they could come to your door and take them, and if so do you think it would end up as a modern day civil war?



Or do you think that they will just ban certain types like the previous ban, and if so do you think they will be a grandfather clause that will allow you to own these types and mags if you already have them?


Also if it came to this what kind of burying container would be the best? I am thinking that keeping it simple like a 870, Glock 19 and ammo in a sealed PVC pipe with a screw on cap would be the way to go but how would one keep them free of corrosion other than just oiling the heck out of them? And as for ammo I am thinking it stays a pretty moderate temp at around 2-3 feet under ground so do think it would last or go bad within 10-15 years underground?


BTW I am not being paranoid just thinking ahead.
 
If it's time to bury them, then it is probably past due time to put them to use.

If they ban something I own and start going door to door to collect them. I won't be home. Holing up is tactically stupid.:fire:
 
Start buying guns only through non ffl tranfers. You all know what happens to the people on the lists, remember Red Dawn. ;)
 
For whatever it is you're asking about:

They will start with banning new ones and grandfather in the old ones.

Then they will require registration of the old ones.

Then they will confiscate the old ones.

Then they will confiscate everything else.
 
I like the saying too. On the other hand, it might be necessary to ditch the gear for a period of time. I think the key things would be: 1) a sealed container that is not biodegradeable and 2) lubrication/moisture control.
 
As a Marine I am sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America...As long as 2A stands, I will do my best to do so. If 2A gets infringed (I.E. The US enacts an AWB that is equal to or greater than Peoples' Republik of California) I can't take that vow. I'm not going to start a "civil war," but I can't take that vow if in a worst case scenario, I would be required to disarm America. That said, if they want to take away my guns, "They can pry them from my cold, dead hands."
 
Mastinson. Don't use screw on caps. Use the type that are cemented on as it is a better seal against moisture. And cosmoline is the best long term storage option for your scenario. The comblock countries definately got that right. We now return you to your regularly scheduled tin foil hat moment.
 
Aaryq, sorry dude, but if you're an active duty Marine, you are telling me that you would disobey a lawful order?? I would like to think that wouldn't be the case.

If they start in with the gun bans, it will be creeping incrementalism that will get us. Little by little, the antis will find a way to gain their control.
 
A PVC cleanout will seal well if you put a little teflon tape on the threads. A Cam-lock coupling with dust plug would work fine, too. Trust me, PVC is my art form ;)

I'll entertain the idea... other than cosmoline, I'd just flush the container with CO2 (I've got a kegerator, so no problem getting that) until I've displaced all the oxygen. Can't rust without oxygen, right? If it's sealed right (perhaps get a union instead of the previous 2 suggestions), it'll stay the exact same for a loooong time.

Plus, you wouldn't need to get rid of all that goop... just pop it open, rack the slide, and you're ready to rock.
 
Don't let it get that far!

Newly joined THR, but been reading a lot beforehand. I see a few folks talking about NOT voting since they can't find a good candidate. Guys, please vote every chance you get, KNOW where people stand, and use the process while we still have it.

This fight isn't over yet, but I see a lot of folks resigned that the anti's are eventually going to win. We will get what we expect....:banghead:
 
Two questions;

1) What exactly is the rationale or line of thinking behind said burial? What's the point? Worried they'll do a search and seizure? I got numerous good hiding places in my house.

2) "the ones they know about"??? I sold most of em and lost the rest....AFATK (as far as they know). How exactly did that work in Katrina? Did they have a list of guns they knew you had when you answered the door? (It's a whole nuther question why you let them in without a warrant in the first place)
 
I'll tell you what I would do if I was the Dark Lord trying to disarm you such that I could get rid of you in the manner of my choosing.

Any who have purchased a gun would be removed from society. Period. Not all at once, mind you.

Those that state: "I sold it at a gun show" and did not have accurate information as to the whereabouts would have their homes raided, their kids becoming wards of the state and property confiscated.

Those with CCW permits would be removed - never to return as you have identified yourself has having the means and will to use your firearms.

The penalty for using, possessing or knowing someone who does and not reporting said violations would be loss of freedom for 15 years with no chance of parole.

Of course, I'd allow the gangs to continue raping, robbing and pillaging because you'd come to ME as your so-called "saviour" even as I conduct no-knock raids upon homes due to public informants - usually the young non-thinkers and all of your "enemies". :evil:

The NRA will capitulate; as they always do.

I'd demonize Gun Owners of America.

I'd program more individuals to conduct mass shootings especially amongst all segments of society.

You'd have "no" guns relatively quickly. The ones that exist would not reside in easy access to you; at least not if you're smart.

Of course, there will be those hard-headed enough to stand their ground and I'd turn my stormtroopers loose on you, but not before the media was there to film it all to paralyze the majority of others out there who may be "fence sitters" and not before I demonized them (if you're White: Anti-Semitic; if you're Black: Gangs, drugs; if you're Latino: Drug smuggling, illegal). The masses will eat this up.

Billboards will be placed asking persons to spy on their neighbors.

All I'd have to do is activate the provisions already outlined in Patriot Acts I and II.

For those who then think that they'll resist en mass: do a detailed search on:

You've not got a clue.

There are also a lot of hungry Russian, Chinese, Central and South American and African soldiers that would - under the auspices of the UN - come to my aid to prevent you pesky Americans from setting the horrible (and UNFORGIVABLE) example of attempting to overthrowin the most powerful and influential gov't of the world. That, friends, is the most serious "no no".

Remember Fallujah? That's what your cities, towns and villages will resemble if you choose to resist foolishly. Your strength lies with God and the PEN not the sword. But since many do not understand this (and it gives me the easy way out) I'd privately be gleeful that you'd choose to behave in this manner.

Let this BS get any further and this is what we'll be facing... get over the "left" vs. "right" and Democrat vs. republican garbage. Their intent is to RULE! NOTHING could be passed by either party if the opposite would truly do the correct thing and RESIST the other based on CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS. But they don't do they? How much longer will we remain willfully ignorant? How much longer will we continue to ignore the entirety of the Constitution and focus only on "our" issue? Wake up, it's later than you think.
 
While it is possible for them to ban guns like they have in previous places like Australia and the UK, I think they will judge public opinion and determine how far they can go and still be tolerated with gun laws, and push it just past that point and wait a short time until that is the new line of scrimmage and they can take it further.

They will not likely come door to door welcoming confrontation about an issue that in some places is ingrained from early on as in undeniable right. Only in places where people have previously been conditioned to view them as a privilege by having lots of licensing and checks and paperwork will people accept that suddenly an abused privilege can be taken away from people. This exists in places like Chicago and New York and several other key areas, but is far from the case in many parts of the south and rural areas of the nation.

So I see more of the appraoch of slowly increasing the percentage of Americans who are ineligable to posses them, and decreasing the types available, and restrictions and paperwork and extra hoops to jump through increasingly added until after a couple generations few have actualy jumped through all those hoops and the general opinion is that since they have little experience with them that banning them is really not that big of a deal, and may even seem logical as the only general experience with them will be through criminal news stories and police use, as well as in extreme violent entertainment in the media.

Combined with putting more people on probation for all offenses..misdemeanor of otherwise which forbids possession of firearms for any crime, and adding additional criteria for lifelong bans other than felonies like the existing domestic violence lifetime ban, and the drug or battery or other non felony crime bans in various states. As well as a growing list of felonies and crimes that make people ineligable. So that a large portion of the population is legaly ineligable. As we see in neighborhoods where this occurs like some inner city areas, they are prodomiantly anti-gun, especialy since all these ineligable people are in danger every day by likewise ineligable thugs who continue to wield firearms they cannot legal have protection against.

Where the hassle of purchasing a gun is nothing like purchasing another tool at the store, but such a giant fiasco that requires very serious paperwork and checks and waiting and obstacles that less purchase one. Eventualy only old timers, a few new people, and hunters who are okay with all the scrutiny and restrictions as long as they can still eventualy get out and bag that deer will be the pro gun crowd. This is the case in many European nations now, where they are essentialy banned, but it is still possible to jump through many hurdles to go hunting on occasion.

Part of the problem is the mindset. More people are trained now by society to be passive and submissive or only confront indirectly. Of course when confronted with a serious threat this does not mean shooting it to stop it with a firearm if needed, but to try to get away, look the other way, somehow make it stop happening without actualy taking direct action. This is why a few people on airplanes with knives and some decent fighting skills could take on hundreds of passengers. This is why 1 gunman can take on labs and classrooms filled with hundreds of students armed with tools and desks and metal objects without even being injured. People have become so passive and desiring to search for indirect ways out of a conflict that they are not trained and willing to take immediate and direct action unless they are in a profession that teaches that like police etc anymore. Gone are the days when everyone was conditioned to be thier own hero and savior and that of innocent bystanders, those are wackos now. Now you wait and let the professionals eventualy arrive and hope you managed to hide or survive until then. So of course they are going to see a pro active tool of self reliance like a firearm as a negative thing. They want to avoid ever having to make any of the decisions or take any of the action and by merely being unready to do so can make problems magicly not exist (I am not saying everyone should be gung ho to get involved or escalate things either, merely prepared and ready for the possibility mentaly). Having a gun, and especialy going through the obstacles to posses and carry one do not fit in with this mindset. More power and control and checkpoints and technology in the hands of law enforcement scrutinizing and protecting and controlling them does. It magicly leaves the responsibility for personal safety outside of thier hands and makes them rest easier without having to really deal with the problem.

Police do not protect people, they hold bad guys accountable after the act which deters. They contain ongoing situations, assess problems, and do investigations so that people are held accountable for thier actions. They protect society as a whole, but they do not protect individuals, that is up to you. However most see them as the guards and protectors and think granting them bigger budgets, more authority and more power will make them safer and more secure everytime something like this happens. That they can simply throw extra privileges and money at authorities and not have to be capable or ready or actualy confront the issue of being forced to rely on themselves, friends, family, or coworkers for personal protection from armed people intent victimizing them. This leads to the ban em all and let the police protect us copout (pun intended) response.

So yes I think firearm rights will disappear, but not in sweeping legislation with police or soldiers going door to door like some imagine, but in a gradual alienation of firearms from society and progressive bans/ineligable people and restrictions and a conditioning of the public mindset. They will become the symbol of destruction and violence associated with war and criminals and sanctioned police. Something so evil and so serious that it is only safe for movies and video games, where they are used to create serious mayhem, and obviously since that mayhem is not wanted in real life, real guns are not wanted either. Authorities and government in general do not want armed threats to them, they feel vulnerable as anyone would ruling over millions of people that could disagree with something they do and pose a threat to them. Playing devil's advocate: Imagine you ruled over people you would not want them capable of harming you or your forces opposing decisions you made either, even if that meant less safety for them, it would add more security to your safety and authority and add comfort in willingness to weild your authority making choices whether people agreed with it or not since all legal means of force were on your side under the control of people your legislation dictates policy for. Think about it, if you had to make some happy and upset some and change lives for better or worse on daily basis through legislative decisions you would not want those upset with your decisions to be armed either. So governments are always going to lean towards disarmament unless otherwise prohibited from doing so, which our founding fathers understood.

SO I think burying your firearms will be unnecessary because they will become illegal one at a time through laws you will try to comply with to protect your right to keep the others still legal. But by all means be prepared if it makes you feel safer. Maybe they will do something sweeping and you will be able to keep some from your insight into the future. However you would be a criminal and subject to serious penalties if you ever used them even in self defense, so saving your life to spend it in prison would be all they were good for anymore. Or resisting tyranny? Nah not as glorious as you imagine, you would just be viewed as part of the problem, your story never told, and made out to be a psycopath and not have support by the general populance to be an effective guerrilla or "insurgent". So you may still have them, but they wont be of much use to you when possession or use of them even in self defense is sure prison time and maybe the end of your life outside of jail, and the imagined resistance that will take up arms with you is so few and spread so thin and obviously not making themselves known to you because they are outlaws too, that it basicly won't accomplish anything before being exterminated as terrorist nutjobs. What you died or lost your freedom for and the story behind it will not be told or told as those in power choose to dictate it, which is that you were simply some criminal nutjob harming innocent people. They are not going to further your "cause" by explaining your real reason for resistance. Life will not magicly change to some desolate battlefield because guns are outlawed, no in fact society will resemble exactly what it does now, just less free and less safe for victims, but little different on the surface. So do you think suddenly all the armchair commandos are actualy going to fight well trained police and military for a right or simply go to work, go home to thier wives and be good citizens? Remember those that do resist will just have thier story told in the media from the perspective that authorities simply ran into an armed criminal who resisted and died. No glory, no support from those that hear about it, no furthering of a cause, and in fact your reasons or facts about the circumstances neither important to or told by the media.

Take Timothy McVeigh (whose actions I absolutely do not support or condone) who went and bombed the HQ of the very people responsible for Waco and Ruby Ridge. That was thier regional HQ. He was nobod'ys hero, he did not get any sympathy and the news most definately did not connect his actions with fighting against wrongs by the government. No they instead focused on the children, the dead children kept in the daycare of the federal building. All you heard about was the dead innocent children's lives this evil man was responsible for cutting short.

So how exactly would you take up arms against them? By dying when they send a swat team to you? By dying or killing when some random cop pulls you over one day and your in possession of illegal firearms that subject you to years in prison? By having to escape as a fugitive after a justified shooting in self defense against a criminal because shooting is a criminal act in of itself as is you possessing the firearms and your commiting a felony and killing someone while commiting that felony making you a murderer even if in self defense? Or are you going to take the fight to them and be the next terrorist that attacks some government location and is only seen as some wackjob that hurt whatever innocent people or people who are "only doing thier jobs" happen to be there? Honestly if your guns are illegal your uses for them after you dig them up will be few. Having them in your home to protect your family will subject at least you and possibly the rest of your family to the very loss of life you have them to protect, whether thier physical lives or thier freedoms by going to prison. Thier only use would be offensive in nature, and what are you going to attack? The government is not some single location, or single individuals. It is a collection of what is considered the norm and acceptable by the average American. You could kill off every person in politics and government office now and the government would still be very much the same with the same laws and restrictions. So what exactly are you going to destroy to change things? You have to create something to change things, and what can you create that is better than the form of government we have? You would just be killed or hunted down as a terrorist and most people would never even know you existed or resisted. Just another normal criminal killed by police keeping us all safer :barf: . I am not saying your willingness to keep your inalienable rights whether legal or not is bad, or that I don't support it, but I don't really think things will be as you imagine if you choose to do so.
 
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Yeah, when the Legislature fails, we should just knuckle under and give up- after all, its better to live as a slave than die a free man, right?

By the way, that whirring sound you hear? Thomas Jefferson and James Madison spinning in their graves, at about 7,000 RPM.
 
Very accurate portrayal of how things probably will come to pass. Sometimes it seems hopeless to continue. I do think the advent of the internet is the best thing that has happened for our cause, as we can network with like-minded people and band together to try to make a change while there is a chance.

Folks, if you believe in the Second Ammendment but you are not actively working to try to affect new laws, introduce new shooters, and preparing for the future then YOU are turning your back on the country and YOU are the reason that the libs are able to get by with what they are doing. I say this not to criticize, but hopefully to wake you up. With the new Democratic Congress and the VERY real possibility of any Democrat or McCain/Bloomberg we are facing a time of great challenge to our rights. The last 8 years under Bush have CERTAINLY not been all that I would have wished for, but does anyone remember all that happened during the Clinton years? The Rifle Ban, Waco, Ruby Ridge? This was with a Republican controlled Congress. Things could really get scary.

I recently attended an Appleseed shoot in Kentucky. I would encourage everyone to find one close enough to you and attend. I dont care if you are the best shot since Daniel Boone, it is worth it to come and help catch some of the vision and spirit that this group has for changing America. You may not agree with everything they say or do. But they have a Plan, they have Organization, and they are making a difference, even if it is very small.

If not Appleseed then get involved in SOMETHING for goodness sake! Or rather, for our rights sake!

www.rwva.org
 
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Aaryq, sorry dude, but if you're an active duty Marine, you are telling me that you would disobey a lawful order?? I would like to think that wouldn't be the case.

It would not be a lawful order if he was told to violate someone's Constitutional rights would it?

We had the argument already that "I was just following orders" in Nuremberg.

It didn't sell then and it doesn't sell now.
 
Consider the math.

Recently I read that the FBI estimates that roughly one half of the US population owns one or more firearms. Roughly 150,000,000. Assume that 95% of those are little old ladies, fudds and other assorted individuals that will march lock step with whatever edict comes down the pike. That leaves 7.5 million "absolutists" who decline to knuckle under. Assume 95% of the absolutists bury their firearms, leaving 375,000 Americans retaining their arms and refusing to abandon their second amendment rights. Now assume that each and every one of these citizens is accosted by law enforcement and only 5% of them manage to prevail or at least manage a tie.

That's 18,750 gun grabbers kaput. With 3,000 US casualties in Iraq, the government is seriously trying to bail. I think the people in power, no matter what they yap in public, have considered this, or at least I hope they would. This indicates to me the likelihood of restrictions on new firearms, the purchase of ammunition, magazines, etc., but no attempt to confiscate. Which suggests the purchase of magazines, spare parts and tools for maintenance, and ammunition and reloading supplies would be prudent.
 
if they come door to door collecting guns then i will just say.

" well about an hour ago i gave them to the other officer that was here.....he had a uniform and offical looking letter.....do you think he was an imposter"?

:neener:
 
I think the powers that be are smart enough to know that an all out taking won't work. Hence that's why there has been a slow errosion of the tools that are most effective at warfare (eg the tools that the 2nd is intended to protect).

First you lose your rights to full auto, then it's high cap, then it's .50 rifles, etc. Through registration a list is compiled and slowly the nose closes around the necks of gun owners. Burying them only makes it harder to get them for defense, and the government can find them if they are buried using strong metal detectors.

The best defense is to stop the errosion of rights and go on the offensive to repeal laws that prohibit full auto and other banned weapons.
 
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