Gun control and firearm burying questions

[ProficientRifleman]

Read HR1022 to see what they have in mind.

 

[Reddbecca]

I'm not afraid of my guns being taken away.

By the time that happens I'll be dead and have no need for them anymore.

 

[Nikon777]

Gun Ban

yeah, Australia tried that...

One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the government over 500 million dollars, the results are in...

A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced. Gun control advocates respond "Just wait... we'll be safer... you'll see...".

OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly
At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"
From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.
The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions
The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has risen to 112,000, a 200% increase, in response to the ban and as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.
Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

 

[piste]

Two questions;

1) What exactly is the rationale or line of thinking behind said burial? What's the point? Worried they'll do a search and seizure? I got numerous good hiding places in my house.

2) "the ones they know about"??? I sold most of em and lost the rest....AFATK (as far as they know). How exactly did that work in Katrina? Did they have a list of guns they knew you had when you answered the door? (It's a whole nuther question why you let them in without a warrant in the first place)

Anybody? Can no one articulate the notion behind burying firearms? Doesn't anyone know how things worked in Katrina regarding the taking of weapons???

 

[budney]

1) What exactly is the rationale or line of thinking behind said burial? What's the point? Worried they'll do a search and seizure? I got numerous good hiding places in my house.

If someone's motivated to cache weapons, I'd say he's thinking more along the lines of Lexington and Concord than evading gun banners. Boston T. Party discusses the subject at some length in Boston's Gun Bible. To make a long story short, if you're digging up your cache, you're planning never to return home again--you're on your way to a rallying point to join the American Insurgency(tm).

There are guides online and in BTP's book on weapons caching, if you're interested in that.

There are several reasons I wouldn't consider it. For one, such a cache represents a several thousand dollar investment, and there are bigger risks I can address with that money than American Martial Law(tm). For another, I'm a family man, and I can't exactly drag my wife and six-year-old off to Insurgents' Camp(tm). Perhaps most importantly, as an arthritic 37-year-old, I'd be more useful preaching the gospel than manning the trenches, if worst ever came to worst in my lifetime.

--Len.

 

[Deanimator]

Do you think it is possible that someday we could be banned from owning guns and they could come to your door and take them, and if so do you think it would end up as a modern day civil war?

I don't expect it to happen, but it would most definitely turn into a VERY bloody guerrilla war in which I would be extremely proud to participate.

 

[MudPuppy]

Aww, heck, they'll not ban guns. They'll just restrict some of the bad ones, like they do already.

We don't take a stand with the Full Autos being banned, so it's obviously just a line that's drawn somewhere. Do our soldiers and police officers use their oath to protect the constitution to protect the right of citizens to possess these weapons? I've never seen or heard of that, so why would they take stand against 15 round magazines or semi autos? Or repeaters, like pumps or lever actions. And on and on.

You absolutely can't stop gun violence unless you ban all guns. (and I don't mean all except cops and soldiers, or gestapo and waffen SS like the nazis did--that ought to be obvious as a bad idea) And even then someone will still make one.

I guess you could make the argument now that fewer people would have died, but once new restrictions were in, a killing resulting in 4 or 5 deaths would lead to calls for even tighter restrictions.

The answer?
Arm yourself.

 

[Grin Reaper]

You absolutely can't stop gun violence unless you ban all guns.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just ban doing violent things to other people?

Seriously, though, this whole "bury my guns if they're illegal-ized" doesn't have to happen. All it takes is action -- comitted, often redundant -- action on our part.
There are 50 pairs of Senators and I-don't-know-how-many Representatives in Washington, DC, and the bulk of them don't care about gun control or any issue other than appealing to their constituents so they won't lose their cushy jobs.
Our opponents (gun control leftists, et al.) are a VERY VOCAL MINORITY -- they are so vocal that many believe them to be a majority. It is up to us -- all of us -- to make sure everyone knows that they are not the majority.

Seriously, when is the last time you wrote your representatives (your EMPLOYEES in Washington) and gave them some directions? This will sound harsh, but there's no gentle way to put it: If you are not in regular contact with your reps, if you do not let them know about the issues that are important (especially the Right To Keep and Bear Arms) then you are PART OF THE PROBLEM.

We are not in this alone.

There are many, many good people on our side. It is imperitive that we work with them to keep our reps on the right track.

Working with them includes contacting your reps, but it also means putting on our "best face" when we deal with the silent 80%-or-so of voters who we'd really love to see leaning our way when it comes time to vote in some reps who are sympathetic to our views.

And this part is fun -- take a non-shooter to the range. That's typically all it takes. I contend that if you shoot a few targets with a .22 rifle and don't enjoy it, there is something wrong with you. Most of the "Gee-I-don't-know, guns-make-me-nervous" types have just never been shown that shooting, if done in a safe and responsible manner, can be FUN. The, bingo, a new pro-2nd Amendment voter is born.

Or you can just go about digging holes to bury your freedoms in.

Your choice.

PS -- You have some very committed allies in this "war for the hearts and minds"/propaganda battle at www.rwva.org (The Appleseed People) -- we call it The Soft War, there.
I hope to bump into you all at the range very soon.
GR

 

[PvtPyle]

I would have to ask, why bother burying them? I am the last person to advocate the use of force against a lawful government or it's agents. But if you have to bury them, why are you even bothering?

You wont be able to take them out and shoot them. Your kids wont be able to appreciate them or use them. And if you think you are putting them away for a day when you can use them to re-gain some rights or freedoms, you are fooling yourself.

If it comes to that, the time to use them has already long past you by. When they ban them every gun owner in the US has a very serious decision to make. Will you turn them in and go with the flow, or will you put them to use to keep your freedom. Plain and simple, that is the choice you will have to make.

And don't bother posting your intent here, just think about it.

 

[MudCamper]

if you have to bury them, why are you even bothering

Well, because what else do you do with them. Take my state for example. Some guns get banned, others do not. So you're left holding some legal guns, and some illegal ones. You still want to shoot the legal ones. What do you do with the illegal ones? Turn em in at the local police station like the law says? Destroy them like the law says? No. That's just silly. Keep them around your house and risk a prison sentence? No. Burry em in a PVC pipe for a rainy day? Not a bad idea. You see, the bans come incrmentally - not all at once. So all the doom and gloom stories about armed resistance don't make sense. By the time they ban the revolvers and bolt-action rifles, we'll have already long lost everything else.

 

[piste]

So you're left holding some legal guns, and some illegal ones. You still want to shoot the legal ones. What do you do with the illegal ones? Turn em in at the local police station like the law says? Destroy them like the law says? No. That's just silly. Keep them around your house and risk a prison sentence? No.

Eh? Howzat? If you keep them around your house and don't do anything stupid how do you risk a prison sentence??

 

[Max Beep]

Here's how I would take your guns. First I would require all guns to be registered in a national data base and require a simple transfer form to be filled out whenever one is sold. Even private sales. Nothing more. Being caught with an unregistered firearm would be heavily penanized, say 5 years and $500,000. That's enough to make most people say, "hey it's not such a heavy burden", and comply. Then since owning a firearm is a "privilege" now you need a liscense. Very cheap at first, then jacking up the annual permit fee over a couple of years. Who could afford $600 a year for a permit.

 

[budney]

I am the last person to advocate the use of force against a lawful government or it's agents...

Just a side note: "lawfulness" is something declared by a government. So the government is always "lawful" because, well, it says it is--and it should know, since it's the lawful government...

The government of the Third Reich was completely lawful. Hitler was democratically elected, and the enabling acts were lawfully passed through the Reichstag...

Not that I advocate rebellion. It's not for me to tell you to commit suicide. That's your decision.

--Len.

 

[funfaler]

How many here have sent an email, followed by a quick post card to their reps to urge them to avoid any more silly gun control laws?

The folks in DC, as a rule, are people of little back bone. They will do what they are told and what they think they can get away with. Most of them NEVER read the laws that they vote for. However, if you concern yourself with burying guns and ammo, being on a list, incremental gun control, then you owe it to yourself to at least write your reps and spread the word about the Second Amendment and the threats to it. If the reps get TONS of letters and emails saying "No more gun control laws", they will know that we are watching, so they will make sure that the bills that they are voting on do not have that language in it. I can see it now, you rep talking to Sen. Schumer "Well Chuck, I would like to support your bill on raising taxes, killing babies, disarming the military, putting our courts under the control of the UN, BUT you added a gun control measure, if I vote for that, I have 40,000 cards from the folks back in my district that promise to vote me out, and perhaps tar and feather me, Sorry, can't help you on this one" It could happen.

If you are reading this, you are already on "the list", so you might as well get busy with trying to turn this country around in an easy, non-bleeding fashion, because if we can not do it that way, the alternative is going to be very grim for many. As to the question of stashing some fire arms "off campus", there is some merit to it, but it is just a very small effort in our battle, and there is a great chance that, if you NEED those weapons, you won't be alive to get to them, but that is just a grim personal view.

 

[DixieTexian]

I've heard that in Australia when they tried to confiscate everyone's guns that plumbers were in a bind because 6" PVC became real scarce.

 

[wizard of oz]

If i were really worried i would be stocking up on cheap revolvers and double barrel shotguns.

 

[halfacop]

If they come for the guns......give em' the bullets first!

 

[Thin Black Line]

1) What exactly is the rationale or line of thinking behind said burial? What's the point? Worried they'll do a search and seizure? I got numerous good hiding places in my house.

A burial somewhere else is always good if you can't make it to your house.

About the "good" hiding places in your house: not a lot of good if your house
burns down. Not a lot of good during a thorough search were I decide to
access your crawlspaces, walls, floors, ductwork, fake watersoftener/heater/
sewage pipes, areas behind inwall cabinets/appliances, etc.....getting warm
yet? Oh, there it is!

 

[jeep-2]

It's simple to get rid of guns, let the people keep them and ban powder, shell casing and primers. eventually there will be no guns.

The shooting, burglaries, robberies would all but stop if everyone was allowed to have and carry a weapon, you play with a grass snake because it's harmless, you don't play with a rattler because you'll get bit. give everyone the chance to have fangs and people will think before they do anything stupid.
the only people that can't understand this in the stupid gun grabbing politions.

 

[Deanimator]

It's simple to get rid of guns, let the people keep them and ban powder, shell casing and primers. eventually there will be no guns.

As long as I've got a firearm and ONE cartridge, I can get more guns AND ammunition.

 

[MudCamper]

Eh? Howzat? If you keep them around your house and don't do anything stupid how do you risk a prison sentence??

That's fine as long as you live alone and nobody else in the house is drawing any attention to themselves. And that you don't ever get "accidentally" raided. And that you never take your guns out of the house and raise suspicion from your do-gooder neighbors. And assuming the authorities don't start using millimeter radar to scan every home in the country. Etc., etc., etc. My point is that, actually finding myself in this situation, it's not actually worth the risk to break the unjust laws. I still have too much to lose (i.e. the rest of my guns). I'm saying that they will take our guns from us incrementally enough that we'll comply. (Or bury some exta PVC pipe.) The eventual confiscation is not an all-or-nothing scenario. If it were, it'd be easier to resist, because you'd have nothing else to lose. So, PVC pipe until that day comes.

 

[ATW525]

If we come to the point of forcible nationwide gun confiscation, I predict that I'll be digging lots of holes, but it won't be my guns filling them.

 

[sorensen440]

burry them under existing pipes so when they are tooling around your yard with a metal detector they will find your gas pipe not your rifles

 

[budney]

burry them under existing pipes so when they are tooling around your yard with a metal detector they will find your gas pipe not your rifles

Boston T Party recommends that you never bury your cache on your own land. If a cache is found, the property it's on will be confiscated by the feds.

--Len.

 

[230RN]

I do think the advent of the internet is the best thing that has happened for our cause, as we can network with like-minded people and band together to try to make a change while there is a chance.

Until the net gets shut down to all except the military and enforcement agents.

Then what do you do? There aren't enough silversmiths on horseback to go around.