Gun control on another level
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divemedic
Member
Actually, there was a Federal case a few years ago that covered this. I cannot remember the case, but it concerned a group that was protesting the school of the Americas (Carolina?) This group was forced to pass through metal detectors to enter the area where the protest was taking place.
The government argued that the metal detector search was voluntary, and that anyone who did not submit to the search was free to refuse, but that they would be refused entry to the protest march.
The court ruled that one cannot be forced to voluntarily give up one constitutional right (the 4th) in order to exercise another (the first). Maybe someone with some spare time can find the case.
The government argued that the metal detector search was voluntary, and that anyone who did not submit to the search was free to refuse, but that they would be refused entry to the protest march.
The court ruled that one cannot be forced to voluntarily give up one constitutional right (the 4th) in order to exercise another (the first). Maybe someone with some spare time can find the case.
Tribal
Member
It's important to know thy enemy. While the law isn't always what I'd like it to be, it's important to know what it is so you can remain effective. I believe that I have a right to open carry in New York City, but I'm not about to go and try it.
Here, the reason some of us are saying this could be done is because we're aware of the courts upholding similar plans in the past. Trust me: we're not thinking up anything that hasn't already been plotted. If we can get the inside track on their decision loop, though, it makes us better able to anticipate and work to eliminate or bypass the arguments of the antis.
usmarine0352_2005
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Unless your stopped. And then you cry, "But why are you stopping me? Your treating me like common criminal."
And then of course the lawsuit because it's ta-da, "Profiling".....yay.
:banghead:
Seenterman, I'm right there with ya... and the more that Democrats come to associate people who like guns with people who call them names and assume they're idiots, the less we're going to see Democrats who are interested in preserving gun rights.
I come to places like this for information on a shared interest, and there's a lot of good folks here... but yeah, there's plenty of times when I don't feel at all welcome and just need to stop reading for a while lest I get riled up.
Feel the same way in more Democratic circles when talking gun stuff, but it's people like us who walk between groups who need to help them talk civil with each other every now and again, or we'll never see things get any better.
I come to places like this for information on a shared interest, and there's a lot of good folks here... but yeah, there's plenty of times when I don't feel at all welcome and just need to stop reading for a while lest I get riled up.
Feel the same way in more Democratic circles when talking gun stuff, but it's people like us who walk between groups who need to help them talk civil with each other every now and again, or we'll never see things get any better.
XDKingslayer
member
Belief and reality are two entirely different things.
I also believe in "Shall not be infringed" but the reality is that it's illegal to carry a weapon concealed in public in almost every state in the union without a permit. It's also illegal for felons to have firearms. There are also laws in most states on how you carry weapons in your vehicles and some states it's illegal to have any firearm that isn't registered. (all infringements by the way...)
I would say that based on those laws that a "gun checkpoint" is just as constitutional as a DUI checkpoint.
I think DUI checkpoints are a damn joke and SHOULD be unconstitutional. I also think that shall not be infringed means something. However, the laws remain and if the checkpoints are held within those laws I don't see anything stopping it.
Ok, then why do you have to have a license to carry a concealed firearm? Because it's no longer your right to carry a concealed firearm it's a privilege. Especially if you don't live in a Shall Issue state. Yep, that should be just as unconstitutional as DUI checkpoints shouldn't it?
But the reality is that it's not. This is how they'll attack this. They will say that it's your right to own firearms but it's not your right to own them illegally and that's what we're looking for.
Argue with me all you want this is EXACTLY how they'll sell it to the SCROTUS if they were going to do this and it was challenged.
Divemedic is the only one that has found a way out. Unfortunetly I'm sure that loophole will close once they play the "concealed carry is not a right" card. I'm pretty sure SCROTUS will agree that concealed carry is not a right. Bet my last dollar on it regardless of their Heller decision.
You know that we have a special technical term for you Mark Arras, and your kind as well?
It's called Nazi and Fascist.
What you wrote is completely atrocious and unconstitutional. Keep sticking to your beliefs and promoting it, if you want to stand on the defendant's stand at the next? Nuremburg trial. To promote something like the things you wrote in your article is just like denying the Holocaust.
More than 10 million people have been murdered by the most brutal regime in history in the twentieth century. We Americans absolutely won't let that happen again.
Too bad we don't have the means to cancel this guy's American citizenship and deport him to somewhere, lets say, friendly, like England, or Japan.
It's called Nazi and Fascist.
What you wrote is completely atrocious and unconstitutional. Keep sticking to your beliefs and promoting it, if you want to stand on the defendant's stand at the next? Nuremburg trial. To promote something like the things you wrote in your article is just like denying the Holocaust.
More than 10 million people have been murdered by the most brutal regime in history in the twentieth century. We Americans absolutely won't let that happen again.
Too bad we don't have the means to cancel this guy's American citizenship and deport him to somewhere, lets say, friendly, like England, or Japan.
XDKingslayer
member
Instead we employ him with the media to spread this stuff and shower us with his stupid opinions.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Unless they are a member of the German nationalist movement, no one actually throws around the term Nazi except when unable to form a more apt comparison.
Again, bringing up the Holocaust is nothing more than trying to evoke an emotional response. A tactic commonly used when one is unwilling or incapable of forming a persuasive argument based on facts. Not really compelling aside from shock value.
Most brutal perhaps if you leave out the USSR and the big winner, your beloved China.
Sorry, Sparky, that's not how we roll here. I know you're a huge fan of the CCP's methods of dealing with people who don't agree with them, but here we have this crazy freedeom of speech thing where we don't deport people for uttering words we don't like. You can't pick and choose your freedoms.
XDKingslayer
member
YEAH!
That's Congress' job and they don't like the competition!
ForeignDude
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- Mar 22, 2006
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- 133
I'm Afraid...
...that this can't be sliced neatly into a liberal/conservative dichotomy.
The will-to-power is alive in adherents on both sides of the political spectrum. While liberals may feel no remorse in advocating unconstitutional means to address "gun violence", I've found that conservatives feel no remorse in the use of similarly unconstitutional means to fight the "war on drugs". Whether we call such individuals socialists, Communists, Fascists, Nazis, authoritarians, they all share in the same glorification of the State and its ability to shape human behavior towards desired ends.
Our foe, then, is he (or she) who sees us as sheep to be led, as clay to be molded, or as children to be managed -- regardless of party affiliation.
...that this can't be sliced neatly into a liberal/conservative dichotomy.
The will-to-power is alive in adherents on both sides of the political spectrum. While liberals may feel no remorse in advocating unconstitutional means to address "gun violence", I've found that conservatives feel no remorse in the use of similarly unconstitutional means to fight the "war on drugs". Whether we call such individuals socialists, Communists, Fascists, Nazis, authoritarians, they all share in the same glorification of the State and its ability to shape human behavior towards desired ends.
Our foe, then, is he (or she) who sees us as sheep to be led, as clay to be molded, or as children to be managed -- regardless of party affiliation.
Minor nit to pick here. I think that while the vast majority of antis are probably liberals, that doesn't mean we should make the mistake of calling all libs antis. I know some extremely liberal folks who carry, go to the range as much or more than I, and actively campaign against stupid gun laws*. Same goes for the Demykrats.
* Which is to say almost all gun laws.
jakemccoy
Member
It's really not hard to get published on the Internet.
ZombieHunter
Member
the fun part about those checkpoints is that here in MD they have to be advertised...so people know where they are and can avoid them. Even if you see one and make a LEGAL u-turn...the cops can't do anything. They're a scare tactic for the most part in my mind. But then again I don't drink and drive.
Chuck Dye
Member
Check points for pedestrians may soon be a moot point when millimeter wave photography reaches the law enforcement market. "In plain sight" is probable cause for all manner of searches now. I don't see the technology being excluded.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The Constitution is a restraining order against the federal government. It used to work.
QUOTE:
This is just retarded. Get out of our Constitutional rights, you jackasses (Democrats)
~~~~~
Ha ha, you ought to put in Republicans and a few other political parties, that IGNORE and SHRED the Constitution, when you make such 'statements'.
The old fashioned R and D parties are NOT what they used to be or what they stood for... sigh. They are globalist NWO control freaks - both parties! Sell outs!
People and some 'sheep' always think that is is a R wing or L wing THING or a conservative or liberal party. That is NOT always the case in every issue though. HISTORY - past, present and most likely FUTURE will prove this all over again.
When gun owners PUT UP WITH and support policies in ANY party because they think it will support GUN ISSUES while they let their 'leaders' support other FREEDOM bashing rules, regulations, laws, acts, etc. - they just don't 'get it'.
Gun owners can be their own worst enemies too! NOT all of them but many of them... they fall for the brainwashing too. Uh huh. Sad but true.
CONTROL in ANY issue is about control of the people.
Gun control = people control.
Unconstitutional laws that ignore and shred the Constitution and ANY part of the Bill of Rights = people control = wrong.
The Second protects all of these issues as we all KNOW. The thing is that you or anyone else, including me, should not let all of these NWO R and NWO D control freaks let these OTHER issues SLIDE ON BY while they speak propaganda and brainwash the sheep ala 'Orwell's 1984'.
Tyrants, kings, dictators, political parties, past, present and future 'Presidents and Congress' that support these issues along with ANY form of Gun Control and any other CONTROL law NO matter what they want to CALL it in "fuzzy wuzzy - feel good - for the children - unpatriotic bs Pat Acts - the sell out of Americans and America FIRST - giving criminals amnesty = illegal aliens and the companies that hire them - ignore true border control - bankrupt the country - more gun control laws under SOME other safety proposed bill or law" is just plain wrong. Dead wrong! You can be DEAD WRONG in any party no matter if you slap on a R or D sticker on your jacket and wrap yourself up in the red, white and blue while you SELL OUT your Republic!
Gun control = people control.
ANY type of Unconstitutional control including gun control = people control.
The R party and the D party left many of us old fashioned PRO GUN - PRO FREEDOM Constitutional People a VERY long time ago! It is only getting worse. In many issues... you can't tell the difference between many of them too! NO kidding!
Catherine - Independent
Ron Paul had a clue.
Just say, "NO!", to the top 3 ANTI GUN and anti FREEDOM candidates!
"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the ba___ds."
Claire Wolfe
This is just retarded. Get out of our Constitutional rights, you jackasses (Democrats)
~~~~~
Ha ha, you ought to put in Republicans and a few other political parties, that IGNORE and SHRED the Constitution, when you make such 'statements'.
The old fashioned R and D parties are NOT what they used to be or what they stood for... sigh. They are globalist NWO control freaks - both parties! Sell outs!
People and some 'sheep' always think that is is a R wing or L wing THING or a conservative or liberal party. That is NOT always the case in every issue though. HISTORY - past, present and most likely FUTURE will prove this all over again.
When gun owners PUT UP WITH and support policies in ANY party because they think it will support GUN ISSUES while they let their 'leaders' support other FREEDOM bashing rules, regulations, laws, acts, etc. - they just don't 'get it'.
Gun owners can be their own worst enemies too! NOT all of them but many of them... they fall for the brainwashing too. Uh huh. Sad but true.
CONTROL in ANY issue is about control of the people.
Gun control = people control.
Unconstitutional laws that ignore and shred the Constitution and ANY part of the Bill of Rights = people control = wrong.
The Second protects all of these issues as we all KNOW. The thing is that you or anyone else, including me, should not let all of these NWO R and NWO D control freaks let these OTHER issues SLIDE ON BY while they speak propaganda and brainwash the sheep ala 'Orwell's 1984'.
Tyrants, kings, dictators, political parties, past, present and future 'Presidents and Congress' that support these issues along with ANY form of Gun Control and any other CONTROL law NO matter what they want to CALL it in "fuzzy wuzzy - feel good - for the children - unpatriotic bs Pat Acts - the sell out of Americans and America FIRST - giving criminals amnesty = illegal aliens and the companies that hire them - ignore true border control - bankrupt the country - more gun control laws under SOME other safety proposed bill or law" is just plain wrong. Dead wrong! You can be DEAD WRONG in any party no matter if you slap on a R or D sticker on your jacket and wrap yourself up in the red, white and blue while you SELL OUT your Republic!
Gun control = people control.
ANY type of Unconstitutional control including gun control = people control.
The R party and the D party left many of us old fashioned PRO GUN - PRO FREEDOM Constitutional People a VERY long time ago! It is only getting worse. In many issues... you can't tell the difference between many of them too! NO kidding!
Catherine - Independent
Ron Paul had a clue.
Just say, "NO!", to the top 3 ANTI GUN and anti FREEDOM candidates!
"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the ba___ds."
Claire Wolfe
Nolo
Member
He never said anything of the sort.
Of course, he also said all guns are illegal, so his head is probably full of chowder.
QUOTE:
The Constitution is a restraining order against the federal government. It used to work.
~~~~~
Amen! Thank you!
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Grin.
Catherine
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
Declaration of Independence
The Constitution that some so called present conservative president (NOT!) called it - nothing but a G-- da__d piece of paper! NOT a conspiracy theory... on tape, his voice, on the news, his own words, uh huh... ugh!
The Constitution is a restraining order against the federal government. It used to work.
~~~~~
Amen! Thank you!
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Grin.
Catherine
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
Declaration of Independence
The Constitution that some so called present conservative president (NOT!) called it - nothing but a G-- da__d piece of paper! NOT a conspiracy theory... on tape, his voice, on the news, his own words, uh huh... ugh!
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