Gun Culture 3.0?

[Mike OTDP]

Looking at the strategic situation, I think we're on the verge of a big shift in the gun culture.

Gun Culture 1.0 was hunting-centric. Signature rifle was a sporterized Mauser or '03 Springfield. Signature pistol was the S&W Model 10...maybe. Pistol shooting wasn't a high priority. It started to be replaced by Gun Culture 2.0 around 1970, but this fact wasn't recognized even by the NRA until 1974, the industry didn't figure it out until around 2000.

Gun Culture 2.0 was self-defense centric...and also counter-gun-ban. Signature rifle is the AR, signature pistol was the 1911 early, the Glock recently.

My thinking is that Trump will get at least one more SCOTUS pick...and the most likely retirements are Kennedy (unreliable pro-gun) or Ginsburg (reliable anti-2A). Meaning we go from 4-4-1 to 5-4 or 5-3-1. At this point, the logjam of 2A cases breaks, we start winning in the courts.

Which sets up Gun Culture 3.0. No more gun bans, no need for panic buying or hoarding. But what DO we do?

I see several ways this could break.

First, a revival of traditional muzzle-loading, spurred by the 250th of U.S. independence.

Second, a revival of the precision shooting disciplines. Even the more forward-thinking defensive shooting schools are recognizing that being able to hit at 25 to 50 yards comes in very handy...and if you can make body shots at 50 yards, 15-yard head shots are practical. The precision disciplines offer a lot of shooting for your dollar.

Third, more emphasis on collecting. To be honest, a Glock or AR is a serviceable firearm, but soulless.

Thoughts?

 

[HB]

I think the key to keeping firearms mainstream is keying in on the "self reliant focused" people of my generation (I'm 25). This could mean self defense type firearms or subsistence hunting arms. I think your typical 65 year old NRA member would brush a lot of my friends off as yuppies or something but they are as interested in firearms as anybody else.

Basically need to appeal to people in the center of the political spectrum or even those leaning left that believe that individual liberties are as important as social equity etc. Basically ditch the "red neck" image which media paints essentially the middle of America with.

 

[wally]

The precision disciplines offer a lot of shooting for your dollar.

How do you figure? I've just started shooting at distances 300+ yards and mil-surp type ammo just won't cut it. For the cost of one round of something like Hornady ELD-M ammo I can make two runs at the plate rack with a 9mm pistol, this will take at least six seconds of shooting if I'm really on, nine seconds on a bad day. This is significantly more time shooting than one shot at a long range target.

 

[1911 guy]

Part of the problem is thinking "The gun culture is...".
It's all of those things, has always been all of those things and will continue to be all of those things. The hardware changes, but the use of available hardware never has. When we think of a particular segment of ourselves as "mainstream", everything else gets marginalized.

I remember a time when "acceptable" guns were bolt or lever action rifles and pump or double shotguns. Period. No room for autoloaders. And handguns? Why, nobody but criminals need a pistol.

Anything that we express as being not part of the current "gun culture" will be seized upon and targeted for bans. Case in point: When autoloading rifles began to rise in popularity, the idea was floated to ban centerfire bolt rifles as "lethal sniper rifles". That was just a few short years ago.

 

[Ignition Override]

Mike OTDP:
How about the strictest state govt. gun culture climates?
Many of us are well-aware that most of the country always looks at Congress, the White House and Supreme Court. They think "What a relief, no more gun/ammo panics" etc.

Despite anti-Second Amendment changes in CA, are any of the situations in WA, OR worsening, or in MD, NJ, NY, CT, MA, IL, are they improving?
Even when the Supreme Court makes a pro Sec. Amendment ruling, nothing in its rulings seem to neutralize attempts by Chicago's govt. to make opening a gun store, or legal handgun carry noticeably easier.
Or did I miss it?

 

[Mike OTDP]

Mike OTDP:
How about the strictest state govt. gun cultures?
Many of us are well-aware that most of the country looks at Congress, the White House and Supreme Court.

That's the logjam I was referring to.

 

[Crawdad1]

I saw a whole bunch of Winchester Model 94s in 30-30 back in the sixties when I was growing up. Finding time to hunt was hard, vacations were seniority driven and the younger guys in the mines or steel mills were always locked out of opening day. Saturday only hunting or hunt for a few hours then throw the rifle in the back of the stationwagon and head to work. .

With the Trump Presidency not only the Supreme Court but there are many lower federal courts that can be filled with pro gun judges. However our work is not finished and need to vote more republican senators in 2018.

 

[huntsman]

If we are to believe the experts Milinials are choosing to live urban so I see CC/SD as the main focus, as boomers age I believe there will be less gun collecting and the shooting sports(competitive and casual) will decline.

 

[tipoc]

The shooting sports will continue. There may be a decline in the combat oriented competitive shooting (as it tends to be expensive) but we'll see.
The attacks on the second amendment will continue and they will take various forms. It's a reflection of our ruling class' hatred and fear of the working class. That hasn't declined, it's increased. There is some more work at present but wages and benefits are low and that always effects things. But I don't expect doom and gloom.

 

[AlexanderA]

What about the role of the movies in defining the gun culture? This is supremely ironic, because the Hollywood glitterati are mostly antigun, but their products perpetuate interest in guns.

 

[armoredman]

I think we might see more shooting sports but like USPA, driven by "what I'm carrying right now" type of matches, maybe 3 gun, but not likely, unless it's zombie oriented. I agree, more on self defense in and out of the home and practical as opposed to beautiful. Case in point, FN, Beretta, CZ and HK are all bringing out striker fired "combat" pistols at the same time. I sincerely doubt it's coincidence...

 

[theothermike]

Im 24 now, I guess that makes me a young shooter. I've had up to the eyeballs the past 8 years with "tacticool" guns and gear assembling ar-15s and Tupperware guns. Being young and inpatient I sought out something new and exciting. It started with a pietta 1851 kit on sale at cabellas and has grown from there. There's something about these brass and steel masterpieces that is much cooler than any plastic gun. It really peaks one's interest in the history and struggles of the times past.

Anywho, I guess you could say I'm part of the culture 3.0 (the third movie is always the best anyhow eg. Backto the future 3, Star wars A New Hope )

 

[barnbwt]

"What do we do?"
Uh, win back the ground lost already, for starters? Ya'll realize gun owners have gotten less than nothing at the federal level since 86, and even that was more loss than win (just avoided judicial review of clearly unjust transport laws)

Gun Culture 3 is when we start demanding real results vs talk

Gun Culture 4 is when the Democrats are so utterly defeated at all levels of government they drop the anti gun planks for a generation or two. Then we'll be safe for a while.

 

[chicharrones]

Mike OTDP:
How about the strictest state govt. gun culture climates?
Many of us are well-aware that most of the country always looks at Congress, the White House and Supreme Court. They think "What a relief, no more gun/ammo panics" etc.

Despite anti-Second Amendment changes in CA, are any of the situations in WA, OR worsening, or in MD, NJ, NY, CT, MA, IL, are they improving?
Even when the Supreme Court makes a pro Sec. Amendment ruling, nothing in its rulings seem to neutralize attempts by Chicago's govt. to make opening a gun store, or legal handgun carry noticeably easier.
Or did I miss it?

Exactly. It doesn't seem to matter that the US has a 2nd amendment. The anti-gun states have been happily chipping away at it.

In which case, yes all the black powder guns and manually operated guns will be the trend again because the "evil" semi-autos will be banned.

For the remaining pro-gun states, the urbanites have to be won over. Each red state has too many blue urban centers, and the populations of those urban centers are going to overtake the populations of the rural areas when it comes to voting.

 

[BearBrimstone]

Im 24 now, I guess that makes me a young shooter. I've had up to the eyeballs the past 8 years with "tacticool" guns and gear assembling ar-15s and Tupperware guns. Being young and inpatient I sought out something new and exciting. It started with a pietta 1851 kit on sale at cabellas and has grown from there. There's something about these brass and steel masterpieces that is much cooler than any plastic gun. It really peaks one's interest in the history and struggles of the times past.

Anywho, I guess you could say I'm part of the culture 3.0 (the third movie is always the best anyhow eg. Backto the future 3, Star wars A New Hope )

I hate to get all nerdy, but A New Hope was either the 1st or 4th Star Wars film depending upon whether you are going by the order they were released or order in the films' timeline. The 3rd film would either be Return of the Jedi (by release date) or Revenge of the Sith (by order in the films' timeline).

 

[stoky]

If the Bill of Rights had not been eviscerated by TPTB to "have the tools" to deal with this or that special problem, the main stream carbine would be an M16, not an AR, as in the same individual's weapon available to john q militia as the standing army.
The '34 NFA, originally a tax so onerous (at the time) as to be a de facto ban, was imposed to deal with the special problems created by Prohibition I. Curiously, it didn't expire with passage of the 21st Amendment.
The '68 GCA and the Import Ban, decreed by republicon Bill high roller Bennett, to deal with the special problems created by Prohibition II aren't going any where either.
Meanwhile, one of the multitudinous appointed (as opposed to elected) agencies enacts feature bans; too short, action mechanical nuance, shoulder-able et. al. at their whim, while the gun "culture" is a bunch of little Martin Niemöllers, aligning themselves with this or that political party that champions their own version of morality, irrespective of anything that has anything to do with RKBA.
I just want my semi auto >16" AR, as long as them there communists, druggies, wobblies, terrorists, atheists and other undesirables can't have 'em. Uncle Snookems will protect me.

 

[theothermike]

I hate to get all nerdy, but A New Hope was either the 1st or 4th Star Wars film depending upon whether you are going by the order they were released or order in the films' timeline. The 3rd film would either be Return of the Jedi (by release date) or Revenge of the Sith (by order in the films' timeline).

Haha, I meant to say return of the Jedi, when there's 37 sequels, prequels and reboots one is bound to mix something up.

 

[stoky]

I hate to get all nerdy, but A New Hope was either the 1st or 4th Star Wars film depending upon whether you are going by the order they were released or order in the films' timeline. The 3rd film would either be Return of the Jedi (by release date) or Revenge of the Sith (by order in the films' timeline).

Haha, I meant to say return of the Jedi, when there's 37 sequels, prequels and reboots one is bound to mix something up.

Gun Culture 3.1

 

[tipoc]

I agree, more on self defense in and out of the home and practical as opposed to beautiful. Case in point, FN, Beretta, CZ and HK are all bringing out striker fired "combat" pistols at the same time. I sincerely doubt it's coincidence...

No it's not coincidence. It's money. Much less expensive to make a polymer, striker fired gun and the rate of profit per unit is higher as a result. There is nothing inherently more "combat" about a striker fired pistol in and of itself.

 

[stoky]

They're much better for a full sideways yo though.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I doubt traditional muzzleloading will become more popular. Sadly, this lost art is on it's way out I think. Just not enough younger shooters interested in it.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I doubt traditional muzzleloading will become more popular. Sadly, this lost art is on it's way out I think. Just not enough younger shooters interested in it.

I disagree. Up to now, Gun Culture 2.0 has dominated. As we transition to 3.0, I see a revival in shooting for pleasure.

 

[tipoc]

I disagree. Up to now, Gun Culture 2.0 has dominated. As we transition to 3.0, I see a revival in shooting for pleasure.

Yeah.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I disagree. Up to now, Gun Culture 2.0 has dominated. As we transition to 3.0, I see a revival in shooting for pleasure.

I pray you are right, Mike. The current community of black powder shooters is mostly made up of elderly people, and when they're gone, I fear a great deal of experience and knowledge will go with them.

 

[wally]

I fear a great deal of experience and knowledge will go with them.

Probably correct, but as for experience and knowledge go, I cringe every time I see Mr. Flintlock fire his flint-lock on "Impossible Shots" TV show without eye protection!
He does do amazing shooting feats, but I'm surprised he still has eyesight.