Gun Gripes: IV8888 and John Lovell on gun comfort/grip

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I have small hands so some guns, like the Desert Eagle, CZ97, Coonan Arms .357, Beretta Model 92, and Glock G20 and G21, are just not a good fit for my hand no matter what kind of gripping technique I might want to try with them. Even with a 1911 (which with the Browning Hi-Power, CZ P01, and SIG P229 are some of the most ergonomic designs I have ever used), I prefer the straight mainspring housing over any other type and the only Glock I really feel comfortable with is the G19; everything else is either too big or too small and awkward for me to hold.
 
Although the Joey guy was way annoying I tend to agree with most of what was said.

I think it's interesting how many folks I've seen on this board make comments about how CC isn't about comfort yet here we have folks critiquing miniscule things about the way a gun "feels" in their hand.

It would be quite ironic if some of those people were one and the same.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
It would be quite ironic if some of those people were one and the same.
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Irony is my middle name. Best Travis Bickle voice: "You talkin' to me?" I'll own those comments, though in context, I've often stated that I can't understand how so many cannot figure out ways to comfortably carry a full-size pistol concealed.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
The take I get from this video is people say “ This gun doesn’t fit my hand “ as an excuse for not being able to shoot a certain gun. And they are telling you that most often it is the way they are holding the gun that is the problem.
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Now that I have gotten a chance to watch it, I agree that this was the point that they were trying to make, but I don't think that they made that point very well. It came across more of, "quit whining and buy the gun I think is best, since they are all the same."
 
badkarmamib said:
Now that I have gotten a chance to watch it, I agree that this was the point that they were trying to make, but I don't think that they made that point very well. It came across more of, "quit whining and buy the gun I think is best, since they are all the same."
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100% agree
 
JeeperCreeper said:
I truly think this is a low-key defence piece on why you should learn to like Glock.
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I thought that was what this video was going to be also. After watching the whole thing, I think it was mostly a gripe on people who don’t know how to properly hold their gun, and who don’t understand the basics very well.

Compared to many here, I’m very much a newbie. But I’ve spent a lot of time learning. So the points that are made are all things I’ve come across.

Personally I don’t like Glocks. I don’t like the looks, I don’t like the grip angle, and I’m not fond of the insanity of their cult, I mean fanboys. That said, I don’t hate them, I just don’t like them and they’re not what I choose. I’ll admit that I really like the M&P 2.0s. Everything I hate about the Glock I love about the M&P.

Now as much as I love the new M$P I’m not going to sell the guns I have. I’m not going to make excuses for a crappy grip, or a terrible trigger. In fact, I mix them in when I practice and use them to remind me that being able to adjust is a good thing. I don’t know about others, but having been trapped in a classroom that was being shot up wishing I had a gun with me, made me realize that sometimes you can’t be picky. Given the chance if you don’t have a gun you grab what you can. So yea we all have our preference and we shoot some guns better than others, but the reality is if we practice and learn to adjust we can shoot almost anything if necessary.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
I just think that most of y’all are just old farts that don’t like change or being told that you’re doing something wrong. ;)


Just spend a day or two behind a gun counter and you will find that the majority of people that come looking for a gun have no clue on how to properly hold a gun. And you will also here, that gun doesn’t fit my hand.

[deleted as it doesn’t relate to my reply]

Did you know that S&W spent around $40,000 designing the grip of the M&P. It comes with three back straps and you will find people that don’t like it because it doesn’t fit there hand.


.
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Now you done it, the mean Gunny just sent the masses running to their safe spaces! Lol

As for the M&P the 2.0 now has 4 grip backs instead of three which came with the old versions.

I’m sure we’ll get a gripe at some point that their are too many choices with the M7.0 and it’s 9 backstraps. Too many choices.
 
The human hand will conform to what ever shape you put in it. Anyone can shoot most any handgun well, within reason, if they want to try. There are exceptions, some guns have grips that are just too big for some people. Some tiny easily carried guns can be too small to shoot well. But 95% of shooters can shoot 95% of the guns made just fine. If not they are just making up excuses or need more practice.

That doesn't mean I don't have favorites, and if I'm spending my money will buy them. But if I were issued just about any handgun I've ever tried I could use it and would be confident in my ability with it.
 
I didn't watch the video. I'm one of those old farts Gunny mentioned and I'm contrary. I know what I like and if it doesn't feel like I want it to I don't mess with it when it involves guns, clothing, and especially boots and shoes. There is just too much selection to mess with for me having to adapt something I don't find comfortable.

I bought a new recliner not long ago. I sat in a bunch of chairs before I found the one I wanted. I'm the same way with guns.
 
Interchangeable backstraps, interchangeable frames even, the endless varieties of revolver grips and adapters... Kinda looks like the marketplace ain't buyin' what these two chaps are sellin'.

Then there is the matter of rifle stocks in various lengths and styles to choose from, including adjustable length stocks, and the complicated business of fitting shotguns.

But I do in part agree. I can shoot several handguns that don't suit me all that well, including guns equipped with the narrow old-style Smith and Wesson revolver grips that I cheerfully replace with something bigger around as soon as I get the chance.
 
Kendal Black said:
Interchangeable backstraps, interchangeable frames even, the endless varieties of revolver grips and adapters... Kinda looks like the marketplace ain't buyin' what these two chaps are sellin'.
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Did you watch the video?
That was the point they were making. Well that and it was more a gripe about people complaining about grip comfort. John Lovell was very clear that most of the discomfort comments could be eliminated with good form and a little education.
 
I'll add that last year I bought a new jeep/suv gun. I sold my truck last year so I'm no longer allowed to have a truck gun. :D What did I choose? A Walther CCP. Yeah, I know it's supposed to be really hard to disassemble, the trigger is sorta vague, and the sights are a little hard to see. I found it to be a little fiddly to break down but IT AIN'T ALL THAT HARD. It doesn't have a 1911 trigger either. A few minutes with a toothpick and some white Testor's model enamel and the sights were good. The trigger has gotten better as it wears in. I bought it because it fit my hand so well. I make my own grips and I couldn't have beat the fit of this gun. Another little thing I've found is that it is more accurate than either of my two 9mm 1911s.

I'm big on grip fit which helps with comfort. That's what you hang on to a handgun with and the better it fits and feels the better you are going to able to shoot that gun. I don't care if it's a 22 rimfire ot a loudenboomer. .
 
Guns are tools.

If a $20 framing hammer doesn't work for me, I find another one that does.

However, most guns don't cost $20, they cost much, much more. As a result, I am more prone to adapt to the tool rather than change it. When I was in the military I didn't have a choice, I used what Uncle Sam gave me, and did my best to adapt. I know that the "next big thing" is different size grip adapters, and have profited from them, but for most of my gun using life I have had to adapt to the gun and not the other way around.
 
Humans are built to a genetic blueprint. No two people are identical. Sometimes the blueprint gets messed up by injuries like broken bones. Some guns flat don’t work well because of differences. Can any person shoot any gun, yeah probably so, but can they do it comfortably? Safely? Accurately? No. I’m a good example. I broke some knuckles and have wired hand geometry to begin with. Glock frames rub my thumb knuckle and rip it open. Not comfortable. Not accurate because it hurts and induces a flinch. Safe? I’m bleeding after 2 or 3 mags. I’m going to say safety is iffy because of that. Only glocks that don’t do that are 42 and 43.
 
For those that didn't watch the video, they were not trying to sell you on Glocks. And they even pointed out that some guns do not fit some hands. John Lovell stated that he wish the Canik fit his hand, but the tang on the frame was to wide and rested on the back knuckle of his thumb. When you work with handguns, selling or training, you hear people say that this or that gun doesn't fit their hand all the time.
I have a friend that is in his 70's. He told me that he always wanted a simi auto pistol, but they just didn't fit his hand so he was stuck with revolvers. I handed him a M&P so he could show me his grip. He was using a classic revolver grip.I adjusted his grip and his first comment was that it was not comfortable. We later went to the range and he fired the M&P with his regular grip. His groups were not so good. I adjusted his grip and his groups size was cut in half.
Here is a question for those that watched the video. With out looking at the video. How many were Glocks are on the table?
 
GunnyUSMC said:
With out looking at the video. How many were Glocks are on the table?
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If I remember correctly all but an M&P and 1911 were glocks.. Which I own numerous ones, and shoot them good, but dislike any smaller than a 17. Good think about living in todays times... tons of good reliable choices out there.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
How many were Glocks are on the table?
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About half. It was the only make that was represented more than once. Having watched almost all of Lovell's videos, that is the first time I can remember him picking something up that wasn't Austrian. Again, I appreciate what Glocks are capable of. I appreciate that most can find them comfortable "enough". I appreciate the aftermarket support. I appreciate the interchangeability between the different models. I also appreciate what other manufacturers have to offer.
 
badkarmamib said:
About half. It was the only make that was represented more than once. Having watched almost all of Lovell's videos, that is the first time I can remember him picking something up that wasn't Austrian. Again, I appreciate what Glocks are capable of. I appreciate that most can find them comfortable "enough". I appreciate the aftermarket support. I appreciate the interchangeability between the different models. I also appreciate what other manufacturers have to offer.
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Go back and take another look at the table. Less the half are Glocks.
There are four full size pistols, one compact and two sub compacts on the table.
 
3/7. Since I can't cut a gun in half, I will stick with 3 being "about half" of 7. A 1911Gov't CZ75, M&P FS, Sig 320, SA XD-S LCP, G17, G26, G43. All of the other manufacturers offer more than one size, but aren't represented. It is obvious which is the presenters' favorite.

ETA: Thanks @entropy for catching my goofs!
 
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I saw a 26, 43 an a
Sistema1927 said:
Guns are tools.

If a $20 framing hammer doesn't work for me, I find another one that does.

However, most guns don't cost $20, they cost much, much more. As a result, I am more prone to adapt to the tool rather than change it. When I was in the military I didn't have a choice, I used what Uncle Sam gave me, and did my best to adapt. I know that the "next big thing" is different size grip adapters, and have profited from them, but for most of my gun using life I have had to adapt to the gun and not the other way around.
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I almost used the hammer analogy earlier but in the opposite light.

Amazing...
 
I agree @JeeperCreeper

I have a box of Glocks, 21, 22, 27, 30, 31 two of each (see my OCD post) and the only ones I shoot well are the 30's. I have since moved on to Sigs and they work perfectly for me (as do many others ... S&W revolvers and semis for example).

For me, it's the grip angle, esp. for follow-up shots / double taps.

I have medium hands, unlike some others, I am not sensitive to 'hanging pinky' but I do prefer a full grip if I can have it and conceal it.

IMHO Grips and sights are second only to triggers. I don't find the so-called 'high bore axis' a hindrance at all compared to the trigger, grips and sights. In fact, I would put it back behind manual-of-arms (DAO, DA/SA, SAO, etc).
 
Both folks on the video make a valid point and it has nothing to do with Glock pistols - it's about skills and one's will to learn how to use that tool. One more thing - I'm a left-hander. I don't know if right-handed folks realize it, but every time I grab a pair of scissors I curse the inventor... For every, and I do mean for every gun I handle I have to adapt to it. It does not matter if it's a pistol, or revolver, or a bolt action rifle, or a break open shotgun. I have to adapt, because they "do not fit me", they are designed for right-handers. But yet, I do shoot them and enjoy them. So, from my point of view, much of that "the gun sucks - it does not fit me!" falls down to a simple whining. That's it. I mean - all of the guns do not fit me from the start, should I quit shooting?!?
 
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entropy said:
3 out of 7. Top to bottom, L to R; CZ 75, M&P, G17L ,

LCPII, G26, G43, Sig320. I watched it twice. Badkarmamib beat me to it. But he got two wrong.
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Biscuits, I did, didn't I! I was watching on my phone, and just tried zooming in on the first frame.
 
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