Gun owners need basic medical training

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snake eater 332

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I found this compelling video online by Paul Gomez of Gomez Training titled 'Watching Someone You Love Die Sucks':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6b1v9lcmG0

I strongly believe that if you own a gun and keep it in the home for self-defense, carry it for protection or as a job requirement, bring it to the range, etc., you should also learn basic medical skills (shooter's aid) to provide basic medical care until EMS can arrive on scene. You must be able to stop and control bleeding and/or maintain an airway at a minimum until help arrives.
 
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No doubt about *everyone* knowing some basic medical skills being good, not just gun owners.

Now for the train of thought that just poped into my mind after reading his little post.

This is more of a general response though after reading a lot of "<someone doing something> needs <some ancillary training>" type threads as of late. Be careful with that.
In my line of work we call that the Good Idea Fairy.

Gun owners *need* to be safe with the gun they own. Full stop. They don't need to be able to execute an elPres in two seconds flat, they don't need to be able to hit such-and-such reliable at some random distance, they don't need medical training, they don't need a fortified house and they don't need hand to hand skills and they don't need to even have situational awareness or a good lawyer.

Now, at this point most people are really getting steamed up and saying "This is bogus, you do need to know these things." I agree that is is very, very prudent to know these things. I agree that it is in people's best interest to know some of these basic skills.

But from what I have seen as of late it is very easy to let the Good Idea Fairy out and utterly overblow a simply thing such as owning a gun and sticking it in the nightstand.

It's only natural when people like us who spend a lot of time training both physically and in our heads and who are really serious about the subject of armed self defense get together that we you know ... think about this really hard and as such we go about this really hard. We are serious about our armed self defense simply by being even a lurker on this board. But what comes with that is more and more added "requirements" and "needs" that compound to where a truly casual gun owner can be quite intimidated or even be dissuaded from owning a gun.

Let's assume for instance we have a guy in his thirties who says "I ought to own a gun with all this stuff going on in my town." Now, he pops "gun ownership" into google and comes to our lovely board.
Here he reads that for "minimum proficiency" he needs to do twenty minutes of dryfire and drawing practice a day, shoot 200 rounds a week of self defense ammo, spend at least 2000 dollars on quality training, needs to get a wilderness EMS course under his belt, and on top of all that shold seriously consider a fullblown security system with infrared cameras and a prepaid lawyer.
If I read that I'd say "I think I'll stick to a baseball bat."

I love good training, and I do believe the more the better, but I think sometimes we take this word "need" a bit too lightly.

tldr;

Always a good thing to have that sort of training, but I wouldn't say "need" is the right word here. 8) It's prudent to have.
 
One of my secondary duties in the USAF was American Red Cross CPR/FA training (I held certification classes). This was a unit requirement in addition to basic military self aid/ buddy care.We kept our classes open to family members, foreign nationals, everyone. The feather in my cap was certifying a UK RAF Flight Commander (our Lt.Col) with an AMERICAN Red Cross card!:D

I agree that gun owners should be RC certified. Also, anyone with a driver's license. Or kids, or elderly parents, or neighbors, or bicycles, or kitchen knives, or shoe laces..... but PLEASE, let's continue to appeal to people on the basis of general safety and common sense. Let's NOT EVER let the government make this another onerous 'reasonable requirement' :banghead: to own firearms or anything else.

Having said that, ALL Y'ALL GO GET YOUR RC CARD. Do it because you should, not because they'll eventually make you.
 
"Basic" (?) medical training

...is what we used to call "first aid." We probably still should, and not glorify as something it isn't. And yes, first aid training is a must AFAIC.

There are some unfortunate realities. If someone is hit in the chest, most of the bleeding is going to be internal. Putting "pressure on the wound" won't help major bleeding; it might help other things, though, like the famous (rare) "sucking chest wound."

If someone's heart or breathing stops because of blood loss, CPR does nothing. In penetrating trauma to the head and neck, the victim is in serious soup and many things attemtpted to make things better can easily make them worse (but, as I said, it was serious to begin with).

Trauma caused by bullets is bad, bad stuff. People can die despite the very best efforts of the very best.

It is absolutely true that, by putting pressure on a limb artery that's been cut and is pumping blood out, you could save a life. But other than that, almost all truly effective medical treatment is going to involve care that few can deliver in the field, unless they're a doc, nurse, EMT, corpsman...and they have the equipment they need.

That means 911 ASAP for most of us, to get the trained personnel and their equipment where you need it. And all first aid and CPR courses discuss that.
 
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I brought this us with Mas Ayoob elsewhere. Besides Mas, nobody showed an interest. I have some simple training from my Army years and it seems my knowledge is out of date.

Now, I work for the Army as a civilian and I hear things which shows things have changed.

I have not done a search for authoritative sources but a couple things surprised me.

A soldier saves himself by plugging bullet holes with fingers and calls for help.

Some special forces guys claim they use tampons to slow the bleeding enough to save soldiers who have been shot.

I have not confirmed the usefulness of these techniques and have not seen training incorporate it.

Additionally, I have seen clotting packs that may help.

Clearly, things have changed since my training and there are new methods out there.
 
I'll be the first to agree that GSW trauma is not likely treatable with basic FA/CPR. I'll also bet my life savings that more THR users (gun owners all) will die of heart attacks before 60 than accidental gunshot wounds.

I'm also realistic enough to know that carrying a gun does not make me completely safe, and CPR/FA will not save every life... BUT, I do both because THEY IMPROVE THE ODDS, even if only a little. CPR/FA is NOT paramedic training. It won't make you a trauma surgeon, which is absolutely what a GSW victim needs ASAP. CPR/FA is just a tool in the arsenal of whoever is trying desperately to keep someone alive, whether they're facedown in an alley or a plate of mashed potatoes.

Watching someone die sucks. Not knowing what to do sucks. Seeing people standing around an accident victim doing nothing hurts, because I know they CARE- they just feel scared and helpless.

I once responded to a random accident in UK bus station. An elderly lady tripped on a curb and landed on her face hard enough to break bone and knock her cold. A blow like that could have been fatal. There were 5 or 6 people there, panicky. I had the opportunity to identify myself as a US Forces NCO and RC first responder. I'll never, ever forget the look on the face of the woman kneeling next to the lady, or her exact response- "OH THANK GOD!" The first paramedic on the scene assumed and expected that I would assist. The lady recovered. You will never forget a feeling like that.

When one of the sheeples raises the "Somebody do something!" cry,

BE SOMEBODY. It's what sheep dogs do.
 
Nushif writes:

Let's assume for instance we have a guy in his thirties who says "I ought to own a gun with all this stuff going on in my town." Now, he pops "gun ownership" into google and comes to our lovely board.
Here he reads that for "minimum proficiency" he needs to do twenty minutes of dryfire and drawing practice a day, shoot 200 rounds a week of self defense ammo, spend at least 2000 dollars on quality training, needs to get a wilderness EMS course under his belt, and on top of all that shold seriously consider a fullblown security system with infrared cameras and a prepaid lawyer.
If I read that I'd say "I think I'll stick to a baseball bat."
Click to expand...

You left out the part where his gun will kill him or others in his family if he didn't spend the equivalent of at least two month's pay on it, or if the first number in its caliber is less than "4". :D

I agree that first-aid training rarely has any disadvantages, but not that it should be required simply to own a gun. I hope no one from NY or CA legislatures (or D.C.'s) comes across this idea..
 
I agree also, everyone should but let's not get the government involved please.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Sure, it would be nice if everyone on this planet knew advanced life saving skills.
But I certainly don't think that it should be legally required for gun ownership or for concealed carry.
That would be just another legal hurdle to jump in order to exercise what is already a Constitutional Right.

Personally, I don't think there should be ANY hurdles to jump in order to exercise that Right.
No first aid courses, no firearms safety courses, no concealed carry courses, no waiting periods, no background checks, no government granted permits, etc...
 
Not only the knowledge of first aid is important, but also the tools required to do so.

I carry a trauma/first aid kit including a bloodclotting agent and tourniquet in both my vehicles, home first aid kit, and range bag.

This is important.
 
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I think some countries in Europe require some basic first aid training in order to get a drivers licence.
 
I think seeking out something akin to the combat lifesaver course, and keeping a tourniquet and a field bandage in your shooting bag is a very good idea.
 
www.krttraining.com ran a course by Lone Star Medics (they've been written up in SWAT). It was so popular that they ran a second section. It was a great course and I have kit at home and in the car.

Other outfits are offering similar courses in S. Texas.

At the Polite Society, one of the seminar was about such. Paul is on the money. Folks in the training circuit know this quite well.

It is a shame that risky environments like schools don't offer such more. Some universities do run first aid courses. Others don't because the liability scum have convinced administrations that if an employee is trained and then something goes wrong in a critical incident, they will be sued.
 
If you want quality medical training, go join a Volunteer Fire Department, most to all provide free training, and if you are willing to make the commitment, you can get your EMT certification, and more importantly mentors and practice. I have taken EMT-T, I have been trained by some of the best in the country, and it's really common sense and practice, but most of the tactical medicine course are more about the tactics and specific techniques involved with SWAT/Combat and not the medicine, it's more on HOW to apply what you already know.

For the average gun owner, a good first aid course that teaches you to use what is on hand, and that medical help/rescue is within 10 minutes, is more than enough, more than enough, basic stuff like trauma ABC's (actually C- treat obvious major bleeds, B- quickly visually check for breathing, A - Check, protect, treat Airway, check/treat breathing, C- check/treat circulation)
The rest of the lore, like tampons (mess, leaves cotton in the wound, swells to provide internal pressure along the wound track) light virgin/petite for 5.56 wounds, regular for 7.62 wounds etc. comes from experience and mentoring by veteran medics/EMTs. Know what you know, know what you don't know, never take your eye off the ball, which is getting the patient to DEFINITIVE medical care.

These classes, are either a good introduction to new skills or a good refresher, don't expect it to take the guy off the street and turn you into a paramedic (an associates degree program many places)
 
The First Responder program is still active, although the National Registry of Emergency Medicine is discussing getting rid of it. It is, First Aid for the most part.

This is an easier discussion that suggesting anyone in EMS should be familiar with handling, and unloading/making safe any firearms they encounter in a shooting situation that has been deemed otherwise safe.

Good topic.
 
...it is very easy to let the Good Idea Fairy out and utterly overblow...
Click to expand...

You know, I've heard the term "Good Idea Fairy" in the military a lot. And without fail, it has always been from someone who was trying to crush a legitimate improvement or enhancement to something because they were afraid it would mix things up too much and maybe cost them some political points in the command structure.

If something is a good idea, then do it. It's that simple. I don't care if it's an E-7 afraid of not getting his Bronze Star for sitting in an office chair, or a new gun owner who thinks simply owing a gun and putting it in the nightstand is a magic talisman to keep bad guys away; if there is a way to improve something around you and you are physically capable of making it happen, you should.
 
And without fail, it has always been from someone who was trying to crush a legitimate improvement or enhancement to something because they were afraid it would mix things up too much and maybe cost them some political points in the command structure.
Click to expand...

Careful with those absolutes. Remember: powerpoints and every single last online safety "course" are the products of the Good Idea Fairy.
 
Here's a pretty good article about the use of tourniquets:

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tq-civ.pdf


The idea of tactically using a tactical high-speed tactical low-drag tactical tourniquet to tactically save someone's tactical life has become one of the newer trends.
It's important to note that they are indicated in very specific (some would say rare) instances. Battlefield FA doesn't always translate to the civilian world.
 
You know, I've heard the term "Good Idea Fairy" in the military a lot. And without fail, it has always been from someone who was trying to crush a legitimate improvement or enhancement to something because they were afraid it would mix things up too much and maybe cost them some political points in the command structure.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that every new idea you ever heard proposed in the military was a "legitimate improvement or enhancement"?

If so, that was certainly not my experience in the military.
My experience was that nearly every officer thought they have a "better method"...sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't.
 
It's difficult enough to convince 90% plus of gun owners that they "need" basic formal firearms training. Getting anything else added on to the list of "needs" is probably not going to happen, no matter how much of a 'good idea' it might actually be.

Your humble moderator spent six years as an EMT/Ambulance on a volunteer basis one upon a time, but has since given up being bled on by strangers.
 
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