Gun Safe Trickery

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edemere

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Hello All,

I am considering purchasing a gun safe in the near future, and I would like a model that offers moderate to good protection from physical attacks as well as fire. Right now I'm on the fence on whether to get a Ft. Knox or a Sturdy. The Ft. Knox models look to be very well made, but the Sturdy models offer heavier gauge steel. Any professional opinion on this would be appreciated.

Additionally, as I am currently a renter and don't expect to purchase a home any time soon in this market, I don't have the liberty of drilling bolt holes into the floor. What other ways have people come up with to discourage the removal of a safe? I was thinking of casting a concrete pedestal that I could bolt it to. Has anyone seen some creative ways of keeping a 5-6' safe out of sight? (Besides putting it in a closet...) Something like a false dresser or refridgerator or something? The more creative the better; I would prefer that a potential criminal not even know the safe is there, but modifying structural elements of an apartment is out of the question (opening walls, etc.)

I'm sure some of the HR seasoned experts have some good ideas, let's hear them. :)
 
I would not worry too much about it being out of sight. Its too big to hide and any burglar is going to look in the closet. I'd be inclined to put it in the corner of your bedroom.

I gather the concrete pedestal idea is to add weight to make it harder to carry off. Its already heavy enough that no one is going to easily cart it off. You might also unintentionally over stress the floor. Don't want it coming down in your downstairs neighbor's apartment.

Some kind of monitored alarm might be in order.

Keep in mind that something this big is going to probably need some help to get it there in the first place. This will be fairly obvious in an apartment building and everyone will know you have a large gun safe in your pad.

You might want to consider something like a Zanotti knockdown safe that you can bring in more discretely.
 
Well right now I am on the bottom floor which is basically a concrete slab, so weight really isn't a problem. I would make the pedestal wide enough so as not to fit through a doorway when bolted to the safe, and also it would add a significant amount of weight. Bent up rebar reinforcement might be good too so they can't just whack it to pieces with a sledge.
 
Well right now I am on the bottom floor which is basically a concrete slab, so weight really isn't a problem. I would make the pedestal wide enough so as not to fit through a doorway when bolted to the safe, and also it would add a significant amount of weight. Bent up rebar reinforcement might be good too so they can't just whack it to pieces with a sledge.
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Actually, excess weight on a slab can be a big problem. Especially with some of the floating slabs being used these days.

I don't see how anyone is going to drag a 500 or 600 pound safe off, and adding a few hundred pounds of concrete to it is not going to change the odds on that much one way or the other.
 
I don't see how anyone is going to drag a 500 or 600 pound safe off
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Actually, it's incredibly easy.

I just sold my 800 pound AMSEC safe and the purchaser and myself had the safe out of my apartment, up the elevator and on his truck in less than 10 minutes.

The guy I bought the safe from moved it in and placed it by himself, in about 15 minutes.

The key is to bolt it down, and if you're on a slab you don't need more concrete. Just sink lag bolts into the existing slab.
 
Bolt it down--your landlord might keep a few $$$ from the security. If you're on a slap--can tiles be removed (or carpet, whatever) and replaced upon leaving. I would not ask, I would do--it's a few holes in a concrete slap--it's not like you're knocking out a wall or defacing fine art.

That said---hiding and mis-direction help a lot--I've hade safes and I've had more fun ways of not letting them be objects of theft. Be creative--have fun!
 
I don't know if the safe has holes in the back wall or not but if it does or they can be drilled, you could use long lag bolts and bolt it to the wall studs. You might also lag bolt a section of chain to the wall behind the safe and wrap the chain around the safe and use a large lock. It would not be to pretty but you could do this when you leave.

You might also ask the person you bought it from. He has probably heard of some unique ways too lock down a safe. Thomas.
 
Actually, the idea of a fake dresser is a good one. it would be pretty easy to get an old dresser. to remove the drawers, then remove the body of the drawer so all you are left with is the face, then glue those faces to the cabinet. Then remove the back of the cabinet, which is often just a thin sheet of backing. Slide the whole thing over the safe. Remove the whole thing to get in.
 
What about a "fake" big screen TV? Not one of those thin plasma/lcd types, but the kind fro the 1980s/1990s? The ones that were five feet high, three foot deep, and my freinds and I couldn't play our Nintendo on...
 
I know when my wasn't bolted down, with the door open, it was pretty easy to tip over. I'd bolt it down if I were you. You know, you don't need big 1/2" bolts. Just some little 5/16 ones will do. After I drilled the holes, you couldn't even see the holes in the carpet.
 
bolt it down , better to ask forgiveness then permission in this case
 
I saw some pics on TFL where a guy took some old audio equipment, hollowed it out and made it into a gunsafe.
 
The key is to bolt it down, and if you're on a slab you don't need more concrete. Just sink lag bolts into the existing slab.
Click to expand...
Bolt it down--your landlord might keep a few $$$ from the security.
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bolt it down , better to ask forgiveness then permission in this case
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NOT if it's a post-tensioned slab! That could turn out to be one serious screw up.


-T.
 
Thernlund, I withdraw my suggestion--thank you--THAT could be a problem it seems. So, then, skip the safe--you don't need it--if the gear is kept discretely and well hidden. On this I won't elaborate further in public--except to say that there is something to be said for a single good spot, and something to be said for multiple hiding spots-thus dispersing a collection.
In the US it is likely illegal to 'booby-trap' anything with lethal or harmful devices--but good deterant devices are out there for purchase or consruction. You'll have to look---but trust me---you do have good hiding places if you look. Break down into smaller parts what you don't need at ready---makes it all easier.
 
Making the safe heavy might prevent it from walking off, but it's still not as effective as bolts. If someone can get your safe on it's side, it's possible to gain entry in a matter of a couple of minutes with a prybar and some effort. No skill needed...

Save your money and buy a super-cheapie if you can't bolt it down.
 
that would be easily found out by a burglar who tries to open the dresser drawers.
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yes it would. But there is still the safe inside, which is hard to get into. What it eliminates is the apartment manager contracting an electrician or plumber to come fix something, see the safe, blab about it, or come back later for it.

besides, most thefts in apartments the buglar isn't expecting to find rolex watches in the top drawer, he is carrying out the CDs, DVDs, TV, laptop, etc.
 
1. Suggestion for a place to buy a safe: zykansafe.com. The person who owns it is very pro-2A.

2. Go to a farm supply store and buy a mat like what they use in horse stalls. Put that down between the safe and the floor. Drill down into the cement and anchor it.
 
weld a chain to your safe. padlock the chain to your bed frame, table, lamp... etc. the idea is to make bringing out the safe a real PITA.
 
Obtain a used soda vending machine, gut the insides, and then either A) convert it into a gun safe (read a thread about how to make a Coke machine into a safe, Cannot find it now will try again later) or B) Hide the safe inside the vending machine. You could even bolt/screw/secure it to the frame of the vending machine to make things more interesting.

Be sure that the light works so it looks decorative.

Good luck

NukemJim
Have you considered a Zanoti safe? They break down into 6 pieces.
NJ
 
The issue of bolting to a slab is no problem if the slab is just a slab: drill the bolt holes, then put lead mollies in, and bolt them down. If is is post-stressed, which is a relatvely modern technique that puts hundreds to thousands of pounds of stretch on each re-wire, you can casue a major problem if you drill through a wire sufficiently to make it fail. DOH!
I wanted my safe a bit above the floor, so I made a frame/form, that went between two cabinets, and the wall, and filled it with cement. It gave me a 4" platform exactly the size of the safe bottom. I placed the safe on top while the cement was still slightly soft, to mark the lag bolt placement, removed the safe, (it's only 400 lbs) by leaning it forward, and set the lead mollies (lead mollies will enable you to pull the bolts when you remove the safe to move)into the cement. I waited until it hardened, set the safe back on, and poked the bolts through the bottom into the mollies, and wrenced them home.
Before pouring, I had drilled, and set several angled bolts into the existing slab, so the new one would be married to the floor.
I set a board across the back to support the safe by it's back edge, when positioning for the bolt placement, so it wouldn't sink into the soft cement.
I also lag bolted into the wall in back. It' solid.
The safe fit exactly between the cabinets, like it was made for it. When we leave for extended periods, I stack boxes in front of it, so it looks like it's just more storage. Far as I'm concerned they can take the TV and stero system.
Back when I rented, I did a lot of mods on my dwelling, that you coud NOT see when we left. The carpet hides a lot! I own this place, but that could always change.
Good luck.
 
One compromise between a full size 'safe' or 'rsc' and hiding in other lock boxes or 'plain sight' strategies, might be something from this company:

http://www.vlineind.com/

I was looking at this device for a quick access to HD items such as a long gun and a couple pistols: http://www.vlineind.com/html/closet_vault.html

This may not offer fire protection, and may not be big enough to hold your collection, but you didn't mention the size and value of your collection, so I have no idea what your real needs are. I'm just thinking out loud, about what I might do if I was in an apartment. For me personally, if I had an extremely valuable collection, I would reconsider staying in an apartment long term, but that's just me.

If you have a grand, or few, worth of tools, and they fit in something like this, you can mount it between the studs, and hide it behind a door, or in a closet, since it's so small and recessed somewhat into the wall, you may be able to find a place for it that would make it fairly inconspicuous and overlooked in a quick robbery, and certainly wouldn't attract any attention bringing it in the house, or from uninvited/unexpected guests such as maintenance related workers from the complex, etc.

I saved a link on another computer to a similar wall lock box that was a little beefier w/ larger bolts on all sides, and an illuminated electronic keypad, as opposed to the simplex lock on this vline unit, but I can't find a link to it right now on this pc.

You could easily patch the drywall afterwards.

Or there are some decorative furniture options for horizontal safes like this one from amsec http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safe-HC1854.htm that look more like a bench, like one might put at the foot of their bed, or as a window seat, etc., I've seen this in a cherry stain too.

You still have the option/dilema of whether or not bolt it to the floor, but at least you *may* fly under the radar of anyone in the apartment not knowing what it is, and possibly even a burglar realizing what it is. Especially a random apartment thief not specifically targeting you, anyway.



Good luck whatever you do.

Karz
 
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