Gun safes and dehumifiers: How many is enough?

[Fossil4Life]

I live in an area that experiences high humidity and property that sees its fair share of water during the rainy/storm season. My question is in regards to using multiple dehumidifiers and their diminishing returns.

I've seen some people double up on their dehumidifiers using rods both on the bottom and top of their safes, while others use a rod on the bottom along with a Liberty EVA-Dry dehumidifier on the top.

Couple questions:

1) At what point are there too many dehumidifiers in a safe to be effective?
2) What is the ideal humidity/temperature to achieve inside a safe?
3) Are two rods better versus a rod and EVA-Dry combination or vice versa?
4) What is everyone's thoughts on a PEET Air-Circulating Dehumidifier?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Forget the guessing game and get a hygrometer. Ten bucks will get a digital one... I keep my safe under 40%.

 

[Fossil4Life]

Forget the guessing game and get a hygrometer. Ten bucks will get a digital one... I keep my safe under 40%.

LOL, way ahead of you on that front. I stole the hygrometer out of my cigar box. Although I am liking those digital ones better...

 

[Reloadron]

Overall a good mean temperature is around 70 degrees F. When it comes to temperature what becomes important is keeping it constant more than the temperature itself. This applies especially to guns with nice wood stocks which will expand and contract with temperature swings. As to Relative Humidity, the suggested range is keep it around 50%. You don't want it too low as again with wood too dry and it can lead to cracks. I like around 45% RH.

All the rod devices do is heat the air in the safe. They are, in my opinion, best placed at the bottom of the safe. As cool air is heated it rises to the top, cools down and returns to the bottom of the safe. This keeps the air in the safe moving along.

The Liberty EVA Dry Dehumidifier is little more than some dry silica packs with an indicator. Once the silica becomes saturated the indicator changes color. You remove the pack, plug it in and it uses its own heater to dry out the silica. You can buy various types of Desiccant Bags from retailers like McMaster Carr Supply as well as indicator strips. Keep in mind these Desiccant Bags loaded with silica gel only can absorb so much. They have saturation points but silica works just fine and will get you down to around 40%.

How much is enough? Silica Gel bags are rated by volume. So you measure the safe volume and buy based on the volume.

Finally, just keep an eye on your hygrometer which is the best indicator of what is really going on. As long as it is accurate to within a few percentage points things should be fine.

Just My Take
Ron

 

[DeepSouth]

ure is around 70 degrees F. When it comes to temperature what becomes important is keeping it constant more than the temperature itself

This gets difficult when, like me, you keep the safe in a area that's not normally heated and cooled.

I have a golden rod in the bottom and an Eva dry absorber thingy in the top that needs to be plugged in and dried out about once a week.
I'm honestly very nervous about my system, but no rust in 2 1/2 years now.

 

[Reloadron]

This gets difficult when, like me, you keep the safe in a area that's not normally heated and cooled.

I have a golden rod in the bottom and an Eva dry absorber thingy in the top that needs to be plugged in and dried out about once a week.
I'm honestly very nervous about my system, but no rust in 2 1/2 years now.

No rust or problems in 2 1/2 years I would say you are doing just fine.

Not every safe or storage container can enjoy being in a climate controlled environment so we work with what we have. The deep south can be hot and humid during the summers but as long as you keep drying out the absorber as needed and don't leave the door wide open for hours on end things are apparently doing just fine.

Ron

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My dad has has a 40 gun safe in an unheated or cooled basement for 15 years with only a Goldenrod. He has never had any rust....FWIW, he runs a dehumidifier in that area.

 

[rcmodel]

1. According to the NRA, 50% at 70 degrees is ideal 'museum grade' storage conditions.

2. Too little humidity is about as bad as too much as wood will dry out, shrink, and crack at too low humidity.

3. Hot air rises.
So golden rods go in the bottom of the safe, not the top.

4. The best $35 bucks you can spend for knowing exactly what is going on inside the safe.

https://www.xikar.com/products/humidification/digital-hygrometers/#

They are a stand-up company that replaced my first one free after 10 years when it shot craps due to a leaking battery.

rc

 

[herrwalther]

Hygrometer is your best or worst friend for safe conditions. You will either put one in and be glad with what it says, or curse it daily until you get conditions right. I keep my safe between 65 and 70 degrees and 45 and 50% relative humidity. Dependent on house and outdoor weather conditions.

I had silica gel first and the RH was still too high for my liking. 70+ %. Even though I had enough gel in my safe to regulate a container over 3 times the volume of what I had. With THR research I got a Goldenrod knock off for about half the price of the name brand. Still kept the silica gel packets in the safe, just have to be heated much less often. Very happy with the conditions I can keep inside year round.

 

[red rick]

Thanks for the link rc .

 

[Fossil4Life]

As far as dehumidifier rods go, are all rods created equal? Are there certain features I should be looking for in a rod?

Is there a "best" rod that everyone uses and/or recommends?

 

[rcmodel]

Goldenrod brand
is the first I was aware of years ago.

Everything else now is a copy of them.

rc

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Mine is a Dri-Rod. It is about 10 years old. My dad's is a Goldenrod. It is closer to 20 years old.

 

[Reloadron]

As far as dehumidifier rods go, are all rods created equal? Are there certain features I should be looking for in a rod?

Is there a "best" rod that everyone uses and/or recommends?

They all do the same thing. They are a heating element by any other name. The main consideration is about like using a desiccant silica pack. Buy a rod that will cover the volume of the safe. The rods are rated by volume so make sure you get enough rod for the space you plan to protect.

For Example:

Eliminates dampness, mildew, condensation, and humidity
24 inch - 25 watt
Aprox coverage 300 cubic feet
Detatchable plug
Limited lifetime warranty through mfg

They can be had in 12", 18" and 24" flavors. You also do not want a rod too big as the longer the rod, the higher the wattage, the more heat and you don't want to convert your safe to a toaster oven.



Ron

 

[jlr1962]

I have never had a problem with rust on my guns. We don't have the hvac inactive very often/dont leave windows open in our home. I am in the safe several times per day.

Will a dehumidifier device do anything for me?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If I may...

Never underestimate the value of routine maintenance on your guns. Humidity/temperature control is only one aspect. Keeping your stored guns clean and properly oiled/lubricated will go a long way in preservation. This is your primary barrier against corrosion.

 

[Reloadron]

I have never had a problem with rust on my guns. We don't have the hvac inactive very often/dont leave windows open in our home. I am in the safe several times per day.

Will a dehumidifier device do anything for me?

Since you have a year round relatively well controlled environment surrounding your guns and have never had a problem you likely have no need but without actually knowing the temperature and humidity levels in your safe it is hard to know if you would benefit. Wouldn't hurt to invest in an inexpensive hygrothermograph and see where you are at in my opinion.

RetiredUSNChief covers something else well:

Never underestimate the value of routine maintenance on your guns. Humidity/temperature control is only one aspect. Keeping your stored guns clean and properly oiled/lubricated will go a long way in preservation. This is your primary barrier against corrosion.

Those Navy guys know a thing or two about rust and corrosion! Proper care and maintenance always applies.

Ron

 

[jlr1962]

How long does it take a dehumidifier device to lower the humidity in a safe? My current system of multiple cans of silica gel are taking up lots of valuable space. I doubt that they are doing anything, as they are right at a year old. I have never changed or regenerated the crystals. The indicators have not changed color.

 

[Reloadron]

How long does it take a dehumidifier device to lower the humidity in a safe? My current system of multiple cans of silica gel are taking up lots of valuable space. I doubt that they are doing anything, as they are right at a year old. I have never changed or regenerated the crystals. The indicators have not changed color.

I use Humidity Indicating Cards purchased from McMaster Carr Supply. I place them with my silica gel packs and about once a month in the summer I bake out my silica packs. Hell $27 buys you and others a lifetime supply of the indicator cards. Just place the silica packs and cards in a 250 / 300 degree F. oven for a few hours and return them to service. Silica gel packs reach what is called a saturation point, once at that point all they will do is take up space. If the environment is dry the indicators won't change color and there is no need to bake out the silica.

Finally if a good hygrometer indicates low or satisfactory humidity there isn't any need to worry about anything. We don't want to make humidity a problem when it isn't.

Ron

 

[Fossil4Life]

Well, I calculated the cubic feet in my safe and it comes out to 18 cubic feet. Problem is that most (nearly all) of the rods on the market are rated to at least 100 cubic feet.

This begs the following question: If I put a rod capable of 100 cubic feet in my safe, and my safe is only 18 cubic feet, am I potentially harming my firearms/contents because I am using a higher rated rod than what is needed?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Probably. The rating is likely based on the amount of heat it's capable of putting out and is determined by the size of the safe because the larger the safe, the larger the radiant surface area of the safe.

Putting a rod rated for more than five times the size of your safe might be like putting an aquarium heater rated for a 100 gallon tank into a 20 gallon tank. Unless there is a means of temperature control involved, this isn't a good idea.

I'm not familiar with how the rods work, as I don't have any (makes sense, as I don't have a gun safe yet, either). If they don't have some kind of thermostat, you could be asking for trouble.

 

[Reloadron]

Well, I calculated the cubic feet in my safe and it comes out to 18 cubic feet. Problem is that most (nearly all) of the rods on the market are rated to at least 100 cubic feet.

This begs the following question: If I put a rod capable of 100 cubic feet in my safe, and my safe is only 18 cubic feet, am I potentially harming my firearms/contents because I am using a higher rated rod than what is needed?

Is this a small handgun safe or something? An 18 cubic foot safe would be a 3' x 3' x 2' as in for example 3 feet high by 3 feet wide by 2 feet deep. You multiply the height times width times depth to get the cubic volume. Measurements in feet. For a container like a small narrow stackon type I would just use a desiccant silica bag.

Will using an oversize rod hurt anything? No, as long as you don't convert the container into a toaster oven as I mentioned earlier. All devices that work like this are the same thing. They are, by any other name, a heater element. Make a container interior too warm and wood cracks. You certainly do not want hot dry air exceeding around 70 degrees F.

This will always revert back to investing in a little device to measure the temperature and humidity in the container and pay attention to the numbers. They are inexpensive like the one RC linked to.

<EDIT> Morning Chief and a Happy New Year your way! </EDIT>

Ron

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Happy New Year to you, Ron! And everybody else, too!

Today is a gun cleaning day for me...went out and sighted in my wife's new birthday present, now I've got to clean it before I wrap it up. And several other guns that insisted on tagging along for the ride, as well.



One of these days, I've got to get my own safe...we've more than enough firearms now to justify the expense of a decent one. You can bet I'm taking notes on this conversation, too.

 

[Fossil4Life]

Is this a small handgun safe or something? An 18 cubic foot safe would be a 3' x 3' x 2' as in for example 3 feet high by 3 feet wide by 2 feet deep. You multiply the height times width times depth to get the cubic feet.

The interior dimensions of the safe are roughly 56H" x 27W" x 16D". Using online cubic feet calculators, the total cubic feet comes out to roughly 18 cubic feet.

http://www.marjam.com/calculators/volume-calculator-cubic-feet
http://www.autocalculator.org/Calculators/Cubic-feet-formula.aspx

I'm getting 18 cubic feet after coverting inches to feet. Unless I'm doing something wrong?

 

[rcmodel]

I'm getting 4.66 ft x 2.25 ft x 1.33 ft.

56" = 4.66 ft.
27" = 2.25 ft.
16" = 1.33 ft.

Which gives me 13.945 cu/ feet the way I figure it, and also on your on- line calculator.

4.66 x 2.25 x 1.33 = 13.945 cu/ft.

But let's round up and call it 14.


rc