Gun Safes - Opinions Sought

[allank]

Timely thread! I've not bought one yet but have been looking and doing a lot of research.

The Winchester 60x30x22 with UL listed electronic lock at Sams Club for $581 is a great price, if you have help or hire someone to move a 575 pound safe. I like the 6-digit lock - too many combinations to guess. And it is large enough to keep me going for years. The total depth including the handle is just under 24.5 inches - so check door widths first! I need to remove a door in the area it will be installed to fit it in.

The Tractor Supply TS6030 also looks good at $690. But this is a combination lock, which seemed tricky to operate, and I preferred the UL electronic lock. Since the Sam's Club Winchester is also 12 guage I did not see any benefit in this model.

For something less expensive try Dicks Sporting Goods Stack-On GS-16BLK, on sale right now for $300. Not UL listed but with electronic lock. However I did not like this because the lock is only 3-digits, which is not enough to keep out a determined kid from trying the possible combinations.

 

[allank]

Can anyone correct me regards the Stack-On GS-16BLK? According to CA DOJ Regulatory Gun Safe Standards, a mechanical or electronic lock must have at least 10,000 possible combinations. Since the GS-16BLK is CA DOJ approved (it appears on their list of approved devices) that implies the passcode must be 4 digits.

Is that correct? Also does anyone know what the lockout period is in minutes after three incorrect tries?

I was assuming 3 digits, 1000 combinations, only need to guess half to get correct code, 5 minute lockout (don't know if this is correct), so possibly as little as 1000/2/3*5 = 13 hours. But at 10,000 combitations that is now 10000/2/3*5 = 5+ days. That would be enough, and would give me a suitable safe for my needs that I could fit in the house.

 

[leadcounsel]

www.sturdysafe.com

Talk to Terry and he'll tell you all you need to know.

Look for REAL fire resistent material, not "gypsum fireboard" (eg drywall).

Look for Thick steel, not the cheap 14 gauge stuff.

Look for commercial grade combo locks, not cheap plastic ones.

 

[allank]

Went to Dick's and checked out the GS-16BLK. I don't know how it is on the CADOJ list because it only has a 3-digit passcode. And the lockout period is only 20 seconds. With the ease of entering numbers using an electronic keypad that is not sufficient for my requirements.

 

[Tifosi]

Buying a safe based on prices reminds me of an old Bell Helmet advertisement "If you got a ten dollar head buy a ten dollar helmet". I think construction and content would be a better basis. Just my $ .02.

 

[a1abdj]

Buying a safe based on prices reminds me of an old Bell Helmet advertisement "If you got a ten dollar head buy a ten dollar helmet". I think construction and content would be a better basis. Just my $ .02.

That is true, but it is a little more difficult with gun safes. I've seen $3,000 gun safes which are equally as junky as the $500 safes.

Anybody who really needs a safe should speak to somebody in the safe business....not a gun store, sporting goods shop, big box retail outlet, or any other person bound to spew misinformation.

 

[greg531mi]

I think what you get in a safe, if you look for construction, not pretty paint, or a fancy electronic dial, or a nice logo on it, you get what you pay for. Most criminals are amatuers, and want to get in and out in a hurry, knowing the more time they spend in a place, the more likely to be caught.
Saw a $25 "safe" at harbor freight, I was thinking of using that as a decoy. Got a couple of used bricks I could fill up in there. And they will be too loaded down to get the TV and other heavy stuff. Maybe even store some black powder, in there, to keep it away from my kids......
Check on the size, it tells you 10 guns, expect on getting 8 in there....If you have 10 long guns, get at least a 20 gun safe.
Check out the specs... Look at weight, gauge of steel, dial, and fire rating,(exspecially if you live out in the country) and get one that that you most afford, but get one. Go cheap, and you are risking it....go expensive for 3 or 4 milsurps, and you are wasting your money, til you get some expensive guns....then you can always up grade.....but, it's like going to a gun fight, what counts is that you have one....
wish all my dumb friends and relations have at least a cheap one, for $300, for a couple of deer rifles and shotguns, plus some ammo and knives, it is cheap insurance, in most cases. I know of a lot of them already got ripped off, and cry about it. But, when I sugguested a gun safe, oh it is safe in my closet....til it walks out with the perp, and on the street....Make it hard for them, to carry away, line it with bricks, ammo, lead shot, etc...and bolt it to the floor, and the wall. Get big bolts, and strip the threads off, or weld them them on....I know of a store owner, that had a safe, that was 2000 lbs, and they got it out of the store....Of course, he had a two wheeler about right next to it, and no alarms...
Just don't waste you money on a metal storage locker, my old school locker were studier than those things.....

 

[allank]

I found out today that I cannot get the Sam's club 500+ pound safe into my basement. It is a sunken basement (no walkout) and several movers either severely warned me about the wooden stairs or flat out refused to take the safe down them. They are concerned the stairs will not hold the weight of the safe plus movers. Plus the moving costs were anywhere from "several hundred dollars" to $500. And a professional safe place in town only drop-ships safes and leaves it up to the homeowner to install them.

So I'm back to the Stack-On GS-16BLK (which of course is no longer on sale!). I'll add an external door or some sort of locked cover over the lock area to keep people away from trying random unlock codes. Or perhaps just add a second lock to keep the door closed.

 

[a1abdj]

And a professional safe place in town only drop-ships safes and leaves it up to the homeowner to install them.

They are obviously not a professional safe place.

What part of the world are you in? I can look up a few SAVTA members (real professional safe people) and see if anybody is near you.

 

[Anthony]

How about Fort Knox?

Hello Everyone,

Thanks so much for all of the information on my thread.

This has really proven to be a popular one.

Does anyone have any experience or opinion about Fort Knox brand gun safes?

 

[a1abdj]

I'm a Fort Knox dealer for only one reason:

They build a good looking safe, and a lot of my customers want something that has a furniture style finish, and impressive boltwork system.

Some of the Fort Knox line is more secure than many of your typical gun safes, but overall they're all pretty similar.

 

[allank]

Thanks to a1abdj for recommending a SAVTA member. They are much more professional than the places I tried (piano movers etc), and are coming out to inspect the stairs and quote the job. If you want to look up SAVTA members in your area, try the SAVTA website. I'm going with a1abdj's recommendation, but I did find that the state search worked better than zip code search.

 

[CB900F]

Allank;

There are solutions to the stair situation. One, you can get a few 2X4's, measure the angle, cut & fit from the floor to the stringers under your stairs. How many will depend on the length of your stairway & the quality of it's construction, but 3 additional supports on each stringer is usually adequate for anything I move. Two, the SAVTA shop will have a Steprider crawler to take your safe down the stairs. These are a caterpillar tread mover that spreads the weight over at least three steps at a time while crawling down the stairway. Our shop has one of these, it's not a cheap item of equipment, so don't expect the shop you've contacted to automatically have one. But it can handle safes weighing far more than anything that's been discussed here.

900F

 

[Euclidean]

Fella's;

It's CB900F, in Great Falls Montana.

If circumstances demand that you purchase an RSC, get the least expensive you find with the features you want. The actual protective capabilities between them are minimal at best. Search for "RSC" here on THR & you'll find several of my posts concerning the differences between safes & RSC's

But, if you want a safe, and the advantages that come with one, talk to me.

900F

That's kind of the way I feel about it. I was all upset over the prospect of what an RSC couldn't do and came to realize I just wasn't ready for a real safe yet, largely due to finances but also due to other, "logistic" factors for lack of a better word.

I found something that will keep an honest man honest and represents an honest effort on my part to provide some form of security. Some day I hope I can have a proper vault, but until then I'll do what I can.

 

[GreyMauser]

I've owned a couple of gunsafes over the years, both Liberty brand, both live in the garage. I've learned (1) I don't move them, the dealer does, or I buy elsewhere. (2) I like mechanical dials, the kind you twirl through 4 positions, not electronic. (3) They won't store the advertised number of rifles without putting dings in the walnut stocks. Figure on 70-75% useful capacity vs. advertised capacity. (4) While garage security isn't tops, it can be enhanced with bolts into the floor, and stud-and drywall screening walls. (5) If I need (and I soon will) more storage for guns, I will get a Zanotti modular and install it upstairs.

 

[defendfreedom]

The best gun safe for quality and price!

We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:


Gun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out?

[/IMG]

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372​

 

[defendfreedom]

The best gun safe for quality and price!


[img src="http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safes-corner-door.jpg" width="200" height="250"]
[img src="http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg"]
[img src="http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-closed.jpg"]
We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:


Gun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out? [IMG][IMG]http://www.patriotsafe.com/NewFiles/gun-safe-closet-open.jpg[/IMG]

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372​

 

[defendfreedom]

The best gun safe for quality and price!

We have exactly what you are looking for!

Please review the following info:

Gun Safe - Fire & Security Information
IMPORTANT!...Know what you are buying!

We understand that some people just want to protect thier children and don't require a huge thick gun safe with tons of fire protection.

We have a safe for everyone and every budget!

What is the difference between a "Novelty Gun Safe" and a "Commercial Style Gun Safe?"

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection". We are talking about most of the popular gun safes sold in gun stores, large chain stores or bulk savings stores. 1880° Pyro-Block fire protection gives you twice the fire protection ever offered before. Most companies offer 1200° for 30 min. A standard house fire burns at 1100° for 27 min. That is not much in the way of protection. 1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.



A dealers job is to market and sell safes at huge mark-up because there is not much profit on new gun sales. Accessories including gun safes have inflated and unjustified mark-ups in gun stores. Factory direct saves you hundreds of dollars.

Would you like the factory's good deal or the middleman's?

These same "safes", if you can call them "safes", are constructed from flimsy 12 gauge steel which is less than 1/8" of an inch thick. (that's the same as most filing cabinets!) I don't know about you, but I can't see myself sticking guns worth thousands of dollars in a 12 gauge filing cabinet. A combo lock does not mean "safe".I could see buying 12 gauge if you are just looking to protect the kids but don't think for 1 second those guns are safe from thieves or fire! A security cabinet is not a safe! When choosing between 12 gauge or 10 Gauge with Pyro-Block...

Which would you choose?

When it comes to gun safe interiors don't be talked into fuzzy residential carpeting. Fuzz and gun oil don't mix let me tell you. The truth is these companies are just making more money buy passing off remnant carpet as "high grade" interior.

Do you want fuzz, dust and moisture caught in you gun collection and other valuables?

A hinge on any door's first purpose is to swing the door. A lot of gun safe companies are trying to pass off internal hinges as better. The truth is their just cheaper to construct. They might look good but your door will only open 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. The second thing is the door cannot be taken off for moving the safe. They tend to sag over the years not to mention they cut away the fire protection to house the internal hinge which depletes the fire rating.

Are internal hinges that good looking?

The thing that I would warn about most in the gun safe industry is the blatant disregard for security. A few companies have gone as far as to show the internal boltwork or giving a diagram of how the relockers work. In some cases even showing the actual relocker and the way its placed in the safe. To me this is the first sign of a company that cares more about the bottom line more than if your goods will always be safely protected.

Do you want to buy a safe that every crook in the world knows exactly how your keeping him out?

[/IMG]

99.9 % of all gun safe manufacturers will tell you that their product is the best in the industry, we will tell you that if it has at least 1-1/4" inch body construction, 2" inch door (5'' overall), Top, bottom, left and right locking bolts they might be right!
When shopping for your safe remember that you will have it forever. Remember that what you pay for your safe is buying a lifetime of protection and peace of mind. Take your time, don't be rushed or pushed into what someone else thinks is right for you. Regardless of the great deal your being offered a serious purchase that you have to live with forever deserves a little thought and consideration.

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372​

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I do believe the above is a sales pitch.

900F

 

[Anthony]

What is so special about Patriot Safes?

Gee Defend Freedom,

Do you work for Patriot Safe Company?

 

[Car Knocker]

defendfreedom,

You would have a whole lot more credibility if every post you made wasn't an attempt to generate sales for your product. Try contributing to the community for a change!

 

[RNB65]

Looks like the only credibility he has is as a targeted spammer. Other than that, his contribution to this forum has been ZERO.

At least he's given me one company not to do business with.

 

[a1abdj]

I think this is a good point to point out some of the reasons that it's important to speak with a real safe professional, and not just somebody who sells safes.

For starters, when you think Patriot, you think USA. Think again, as this Patriot is Chinese in origin.

This dealer says:

Most gun safe manufacturers use only low cost gypsum board for your "fire protection".

And then says:

1850° Pyro-blocker plus U.L listed x-type fire rated fire board in "combination" gives you an hour, up to 90 mins, depending on which level of fire protection fits your needs.

I understand that this mystery "PYRO BLOCKER" is being used with the UL Listed X Type fire board together. What I wanted to point out, is that the competitor's "low cost gypsum board" and Patriot's "U.L. listed x-type fire rated fire board" are probably the exact same thing. Don't get confused by the fancy language.

This person has also been selling these safes on E-bay, and although seems to be doing OK lately, has some pretty interesting negative feedback from about a year back.

I will also point out that there are many dealers, myself included, which sell very similar safes produced by the same manufacturer, for less money. It's all smoke and mirrors.

After looking at their website, I do have a new favorite quote regarding their locks:

"Military Grade X 2400" Advanced hyper sensitive alarm, Tele-Touch Swiss motion detector, External back up power source
( Limited level 10 style with tripple rlockers),
laser cut primary key & anti-pick medical key
(Advanced Technology).

I don't know what the heck that is, but it doesn't say "UL Rated".

 

[ramon]

How thick?

Maybe I'm missing something-but how thick is the steel on the door, sides, top and bottom? Saying the door is five inches thick doesn't tell us how much steel or sheet metal is used. Isn't there a difference between plate steel and sheet metal? All the door bolts in the world don't mean much if you can open the sides with a screwdriver.

 

[Anthony]

Best Gun Safe that is a SAFE not a "Home Security Container"

Does anyone have an opinion on who makes the best gun safe that is officially classified as a SAFE and not a "Home Security Container" like so many gun safes are these days?