Gun Shop Antics

[Kharn]

When at the store, I just snicker and hold my tongue.
At the range, I offer one suggestion as to the right way ("I'm not too sure, I thought the .17 Remington was based on the .223 case, not the .243 case") and then fall back into listening mode with some quiet snickering.

Kharn

 

[YodaVader]

When the time came to buy my first ever handgun I always knew it would be a 357 mag revolver - even as a kid growing up - to me the 357 was THE gun to own. When the time finally came the only decision I had to make was which one - Smith 66 , 686 , Colt King Cobra or Ruger GP100. My friend who held an FFL at the time sold me one for cost so I know I got a real deal on it. I chose a 6" 686.

Rarely do I actually rely on gun shop employees for information or advice - not that I am a "know it-all" - but have been around guns , fellow gun owners and have read enough over the years to know what I am looking for before I even arrive at the store.

As far as lack of product knowledge - car salesman are the worse I have encountered - I research quite a bit before heading to the lots and usually know more about the car they are selling then they do.

 

[MrMurphy]

I try and keep quiet when total idiots are behind the counter, but occasionally.. I can't. At one gun show, i heard a guy who obviously didn't know diddly about what he was selling (from talking to him earlier) try to pass off a long-barrel Cobray M11 (Mac 10 clone) as a home defense gun to someone who obviously had no clue.

I set the guy up with a pump shotgun (which he had used before, long long before and knew the basics of how to operate). Not to mention the Cobray was way overpriced.

Another time I talked to a pair of prosecuting attorneys (married) who had a cop friend recommend a 12ga loaded with magnums for the wife when the hubby was away at work in Dallas (she was finishing her degree) for home defense. Wife was 5'3 and 125lbs.

I explained the difference between a pistol/shotgun/carbine, revolver/auto and the pros and cons of each. She handled all of them, I explained stopping power and ease of use etc.

She ended up picking all by herself a Taurus Tracker .357 7-shot with Ribber grips, loaded with hot .38s. They signed up for an NRA basic pistol course and a CHL course at the same time, and for just in case before the class, I gave her a quicky on sight pictures, expected recoil, and how to load/unload the wheelgun and proper safety and gunsafety.

Last i heard she had a S&W 642 for daily carry and he had a Glock 26 I think.

 

[Diggler]

You guys are missing the point. Obviously, the guy should have come to THR and posted his newbie question,

"Which is better, the 9mm or .40?"

followed by

"Which is better, the 9mm or .45?"

".38, .39, whatever it takes."

 

[Correia]

Actually on the USP, I know where the clerk got that from.

Originally when the USP debuted, many of the people at the SHOT show thought that it stood for United States Pistol. Including apparently some of the folks working for HK in the US. This was passed on to the firearms press and did in fact appear in some articles in various gun magazines.

The mistake came from the fact that it had controls set up with the safety in the 'American' position. And it was so different from HK's earlier obviously Euro style guns, that the belief was that it was a gun specifically for the US market. Once again, not correct, but that is what lots of dealers were told by people who were supposed to be knowledgable.

So the belief is still out there. Not really the clerks fault if he doesn't know the German abbreviation. So not really a big deal.

As for the ignorant guy. That is why I became a certified instructor.

 

[rayra]

jpIII

There is nothing wrong with not knowing anything about guns.
EVERBODY has to start learning sometime. Guns just may not be his area.

strongly disagree. the time to Learn is NOT when you are bellied up to the counter, and very likely to be solicited by The Help that either won't know what THEY are talking about, or will solicit you to buy what THEY want you to buy.

 

[P95Carry]

There is a sorta ''half-way-house'' here ... in an ideal world (Hah! What is that?!) .... there would be someone at the gun shop who could actually give good advice ...... based perhaps on being a long standing shooter, and maybe a certified instructor too. A vendor selling firearms should know something in detail about his inventory - sadly as we know, all too often far from being the case.

The other side of the coin is personal responsibility ... knowing that going to ''buy blind'' is never good ... either for the pocket or the practical side of things either. Thus ... a prospective newbie should - by some means - gain enough information to at least have some idea of what would or would not suit.

The only way to that is generally to seak advice from several people - and that'd be at a range most usually .... or from an aquaintance who shoots. A gun shop should also even be able to refer a newbie ... to speak with a known experienced shooter, prior to a purchase.

The actual ''half-way-house'' would be a mix of both. Personal research and - vendor input. Buying blind from both aspects is a potential recipe for disaster.

This is not a solution per se but ... at least a safer way to go into it.

 

[Rebeldon]

My biggest pet peave at gun stores is with the dealer who charge full taxes on a gun, even when you have a trade-in. If I'm buying a gun for $499, and I'm trading a gun for $300, I should only be charged taxes for $199.

 

[Gameface]

Many people had the opportunity to grow up around guns in some way or another. These people probably can’t remember not knowing basic firearms safety, or the right way to hold a gun, or what one caliber feels like compared to another. That is the perfect situation. These people don’t regard guns the same way as people who have never seen a gun in “real life.†Those who have only seen guns in movies have a very misguided sense of what a firearm is and how a person should handle a firearm, in terms of holding the thing and everything else that goes along with it like cleaning, storage etc. Many of these people were probably raised by anti-gun parents. They have to start somewhere. They need a reference point in order for the reality of gun ownership to make sense.

For example: I’m a terrible artist, can’t draw a circle. I’m sure there are web sites and reference materials that could help a person improve their drawing techniques, but is that going to help me build an interest in drawing? I won’t know where to begin. I won’t understand what I’m reading. It’ll all be a bunch of nonsense until I go out and buy some sort of drawing supplies and make an attempt to put something on paper or canvas. Once I’ve invested myself in drawing a little I can then go from there. I could go to the art web site and ask, “I bought X art kit, what else do I need to be a good artist?†Then people could tell me how the art kit isn’t necessarily a bad one, but they would recommend Y for a beginner. You would have hoped that the person at the art supply store would have pointed me in that direction to begin with, but they didn’t, go figure.

So all I’m saying is that we should let people make a mistake on their first gun purchase. If they loose all interest in shooting because of it, oh well. They are not going to get their feet wet in the world of firearms by searching the net. It would be great if they found this site and were able to appreciate what we’ve got going on here, but there’s just as much bad info as good out there and they aren’t going to know the difference until they have something tangible that they can judge it all against.

If said “moron†gun buyer gets the wrong thing but takes the time and effort to learn from their mistake and in the process become a knowledgeable, skilled, responsible gun owner then they are the perfect person to raise a kid who ends up not being able to remember when they learned how to shoot.

Gameface

 

[PBIR]

My biggest pet peave at gun stores is with the dealer who charge full taxes on a gun, even when you have a trade-in. If I'm buying a gun for $499, and I'm trading a gun for $300, I should only be charged taxes for $199.

1) You sell your gun to the store for $300

2) They hand you 3 $100 bills

3) You decide to buy their gun for $499

4) You hand them back their 3 $100 bills

5) You hand them an additional $199 plus the sales tax for the $499

6) You get a new gun.

When you trade, steps 2, 3, & 4 are eliminated for time's sake. You are still paying $499 for the new gun. That tax is the state's money and unfortunately must be collected by law.

 

[Rebeldon]

1) You sell your gun to the store for $300

2) They hand you 3 $100 bills

3) You decide to buy their gun for $499

4) You hand them back their 3 $100 bills

5) You hand them an additional $199 plus the sales tax for the $499

6) You get a new gun.

This is basically dishonest. Even the sleazy used car dealers don't do this. Neither should gun dealers. I'm not selling them my gun. I buying a gun with a TRADE-IN. The gun dealer I just bought my new Glock 26 from only charged me taxes on the difference, whereas another dealer I've been dealing with always wants to charge me taxes for the whole price. The dealer only does this so he can pocket the extra $20 or so. The state (in Florida) only requires him to pay taxes on the difference. So why do it the other way, if not to make just a little more money on the customer.

 

[Majic]

A point a lot of you may be missing is that these people going to the gun stores and asking questions are doing exactly what should be done. They are seeking professional advice. What advice they receive may be tainted, but that's not their fault. You research the different manufactors and all you will see is the advertising agencies game of making their product the best there ever was. Plus if you don't understand what is being said what information have you gotten? You visit gun boards and you will get varied opinions from people you have no idea of their knowledge base (just because you can talk a good game doesn't mean you are good at the game). So they go to the stores to see for themselves and then ask questions.
The person asking of the meaning of USP should ask a H&K dealer.
The person seeking the all black pistol (he may not care for the bright SS, a two tone, or the other various colors and that's fine to have a personal preference) and not knowing the difference in calibers chose a high quality pistol in the popular calibers. As to the amount he may or may not have paid, well we shouldn't be counting the pennies in his pockets,
We all have to learn and have some kind of starting point. These 2 examples seem to be starting off on the right foot.

 

[Diggler]

I look at it this way.

First, it doesn't look like he is looking at guns that are P.O.S., so if he wants to sell it later if he doesn't like it, he could still get a fair price out of it.

Plus, no matter what he buys, he just bought a new gun. At least he has one and can learn how to use it. That's the most important thing.



And I might catch some flak for this, but I don't think that you necessarily need to go to Gunsite to be able to defend yourself with a firearm in your own home. If you're going to be carrying in public, then I think that you should take it upon yourself to get a higher level of training whether by just practice or by adding classes to the mix. But, my wife isn't that interested in shooting and with a new baby here, we don't have much time anyways. She has shot a few shots out of my Ruger P-89 and is a pretty natural decent shot. She doesn't care how it works, how to take it apart, how to clean it, etc. It is loaded to the gills, and all you have to do is pull the trigger and it goes 'BANG' every time. It's kept in a touchpad gunsafe under her side of the bed. She'll probably never need it. But at home defense engagement ranges, with 16 rounds of 9mm CorBon, I'm glad she has it available if she needs it. Point with two hands and pull the trigger until the threat isn't moving anymore. I did make sure she knew how to decock it and she knows how to safely handle a gun.

Would I prefer that she enjoyed shooting like the rest of us do? To realize that you should practice clearing jams, and reloads? Of course. I'd love for her to ask "When's the next time we're going to shoot?" but it's not something she's interested in, just as I'm not interested in some of the stuff that she likes. But I'd rather have the option available to her if the SHTF when I'm not there. I don't practice and train with a fire extinguisher in case there is a fire, but I know how they work and could get the job done if need be.

I guess the point is, if the gun is stored safely and there is a basic familiarity with the gun, then another gun in the home can never be a bad thing. At least one is there.

 

[YodaVader]

When you trade, steps 2, 3, & 4 are eliminated for time's sake. You are still paying $499 for the new gun. That tax is the state's money and unfortunately must be collected by law.

Sorry to get off the main subject - on a trade you should only pay tax on the price difference. On all the guns I ever bought with a trade in ,I only paid tax on the price difference. At least that is the way it works here in IN.

 

[fistful]

How dare all these non-gun types who don't what they're doing get to buy guns they won't take care of and shoot like we would! From now on, when an obvious newbie is at the gun store and ready to buy, he buys a gun for one of the regular customers, and we'll let him watch. Hey, when you walk into a gunstore unarmed, you take your chances. So let's welcome these new enthusiasts, and bleed them dry.

Switch to nonfiction:

A few years ago I was asking for .45 Auto cartridges at a local gunstore cum archery range. The guy behind the counter kept trying to sell me .45 Colts, even after I told him they wouldn't work. Musta beena bow-hunter.

 

[Omni04]

roc_kor

ha ha you stupid newbie! lol j/k... im 18, and i just started getting into these things a couple weeks ago, after several posts, phone calls, and chatting i decided on a ruger 10/22... hasn't let me down yet! (its really cool that somebody your age has the ambition and persistance to learn all those things)

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

I, being one who tries to promote responsible gun ownership and handling practices, would never give a new shooter any flak for questions they might have. I would also try to give as accurate information possible (provided my source is reliable). Of course I'm not trying to sell anything and have no interest other than introducing another lifelong shooter to the sport. I don't understand these GSC's who suggest "Yes, the S&W .500 is a fine carry piece." or whatever erroneous information is being thrown around these days. One would think that for sound advice about guns, one goes to a gun shop. That however, may not be the case at some of the larger chain type stores.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

I'm going to "out" myself here. (In response to the first couple of posts)

My first purchase was a very uneducated decision based on capacity and a black gun. Sometimes this piques an interest to learn more as did my first purchase. Luckily the purchase prompted conversations with the right people. sometimes ignorant decisions, can lead to... Well, anyway, do your best to educate him.

 

[FPrice]

Rebeldon...

"This is basically dishonest. Even the sleazy used car dealers don't do this."

Sorry, but you are wrong there also. Sales tax is charged on the sale price of the item. Period. What you receive on the trade-in comes off your total but has no effect on the tax.

 

[Richardson]

My nephew wants a gun. He is ignorant, and will buy whatever the salesperson gets him to think is "cool".

He wanted a .50AE Desert Eagle, because his roomate has one. I asked him why he wanted it, and he said, "Just to go shooting". He's currently a lazy poor boy, so I informed him that he'd be spending around $1/round, and he sort of moped a bit, then he told me that he can't wait for the AWB to go away so he can buy a machine gun... I laughed at him and informed him that the law has nothing to do with machine guns, and that living in Illinois means that he'll never own one unless he moves out of state...

Gun-stupidity is not limited to Gun Shops...

Richardson

 

[WhiteKnight]

he told me that he can't wait for the AWB to go away so he can buy a machine gun... I laughed at him and informed him that the law has nothing to do with machine guns

I can see that Sarah Brady's campaigning truly is effective. Your friend believes actually what the antis want him to.

 

[mustanger98]

Thinking of stupidity, I was just reminded of a live one showed up at one shop around here one time with a Italian reproduction of the old Confederate Dance pistol- .44 cap&ball. The guy was hunting "pistol powder" and going through the smokeless reloading powders hunting it. I told him straight up and so did the guy running the counter what a big NO-NO that H110 was and I told him he'd blow his hand off with it. He never did understand why he needed FFFg black.

 

[P95Carry]

Two old expressions came to mind .....

''A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'' ...... and .....

''Ignorance is bliss''!!!!


I think in this thread's context these need reversed .... when it comes to gun buying ......

''A little knowledge is way better than none'' .... and .......

''Ignorance can be downright dangerous''!!!

 

[YodaVader]

"This is basically dishonest. Even the sleazy used car dealers don't do this."

Sorry, but you are wrong there also. Sales tax is charged on the sale price of the item. Period. What you receive on the trade-in comes off your total but has no effect on the tax.

That might be the way it is done in Mass. but it sure is not the way it is done everywhere in the US. I have traded cars a few times - the tax charged was on the trade difference - period. I just traded for a rifle a few weeks ago - rifle was $690 - my trade was worth $440. Difference was $250 - total tax charged was $15.

 

[gtd]

Majic, Gameface, and Diggler are right! Here's my point of view . . .

I have a good bit of gun experience, but I'm not a "gun enthusiast". I'm no expert, and I ask dumb questions, but I'm not gonna accidentally kill anyone out of ignorance.

I have several pieces of **** that I just love, for various reasons. One's old and ugly and doesn't shoot straight, but it's my favorite. One has a story and belonged to a beloved friend. Two are "cool". One is utilitarian. One was my first, and now it's my son's first (he's not interested). None are worthy of resale.

I bought a two-tone knock-off pistol (Bersa .380) just because I loved it. Everybody says to get a 9mm or better, but I don't know everybody. I read everybody's comments, then talked to the local gun store guy who seemed to be knowledgable and trustworthy, and his opinion trumped. (Actually, he just reinforced my opinion, and my opinion trumped!)

There's a lot of talk about the "four rules", but I think there are only two rules:

1. Never, ever, ever, point it at anything you do not want to shoot, period. And,
2. Trust your own judgment more than the next guy's.

As long as the man is safe, if buying a "big, black gun" makes him giddy, then he's made the right decision. He can learn from there.

Someday I'm gonna get a cowboy gun . . . .