gun shop=don't want my business?
- Thread starter Ed
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Just one more perspective.
I'm pretty good friend with a guy who owns a local gunshop. He and I talk about the business and he is frank with me about his costs.
He frequently makes the comment that it's nearly impossible for him to make money on new guns.
One example he gives is that the "pistolwhores", as he calls them (his shop is really oriented towards rifle sales), at the gun shows are selling new Glock pistols for less than his cost from the wholesaler.
But that's just one example. In general, a small volume shop like his makes very little on new guns due to the competition with huge entities like Bass Pro Shops and Wal-Mart who buy in vast quantities at huge volume discounts.
To stay in business, he has to make his money where he has a little room to negotiate--used gun sales and trade-ins.
I'm pretty good friend with a guy who owns a local gunshop. He and I talk about the business and he is frank with me about his costs.
He frequently makes the comment that it's nearly impossible for him to make money on new guns.
One example he gives is that the "pistolwhores", as he calls them (his shop is really oriented towards rifle sales), at the gun shows are selling new Glock pistols for less than his cost from the wholesaler.
But that's just one example. In general, a small volume shop like his makes very little on new guns due to the competition with huge entities like Bass Pro Shops and Wal-Mart who buy in vast quantities at huge volume discounts.
To stay in business, he has to make his money where he has a little room to negotiate--used gun sales and trade-ins.
Ed, I am on your side. He wanted your rifle +$600 for a Basic Bushmaster 20" ?!? Do you know he only paid $679 for that Bushmaster? He's trying to make about $350 off you in one transaction, and that's not right. All this is why I deal with a small-time private FFL who orders for $20 over cost. I spread the word about him everywhere I go, and his business continues to grow. He is putting the local gun shops out of business.
Redlg155
Member
I think he should have offered you a slightly better deal considering that you did purchase the weapon from his shop and want to buy another weapon from his shop. It would be a different story if a customer had bought the weapon from another shop.
Sure, he wouldn't have made as much of a profit off of both weapons, but in the interest of customer relations he would benefit more in the future.
Good Shooting
RED
Sure, he wouldn't have made as much of a profit off of both weapons, but in the interest of customer relations he would benefit more in the future.
Good Shooting
RED
illuminatus99
Member
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- Dec 31, 2002
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- 192
generally business take it trades at 1/3 to 1/2 of what they would sell the item for, they're not interested in even trades. sometimes you can get someone to do an even trade by offering some cash with it, I just got a new guitar that way, it was on sale for $800 and I traded two guitars worth about $1150 (the retail price of the guitar I wanted) plus $100, lucked out big time.
So paying $350 over cost is something to be proud of?
Being taken for a sucker to ensure that I can continue to get suckered is sure something I'd prefer to keep to myself.
Truth be told, if a gun shop doesn't have a range, I don't think they can generate enough traffic to stay afloat.
Hi everybody, There are 3 gunshops within 45 miles that I buy from as well as Wally world and Dick's sporting goods.
I don't think I owe any thing to the store owners. They will take me for every cent they can "it's just business". Well it's just business that I can buy S+B ammo a buck a box cheaper including shipping. It's just business that I will buy a safe from Dick's -cheaper-targets from Wal Mart-cheaper.
My several hundred bucks a year may be small potatoes to the owner, but it is large enough to me. I don't like to pay a premium and then have the feeling of being worked over. To compete against the kitchen table FFL the store has to offer something extra for the money not just some sense of entitlement. Maybe the difference between being a customer and a mark?
pete
I don't think I owe any thing to the store owners. They will take me for every cent they can "it's just business". Well it's just business that I can buy S+B ammo a buck a box cheaper including shipping. It's just business that I will buy a safe from Dick's -cheaper-targets from Wal Mart-cheaper.
My several hundred bucks a year may be small potatoes to the owner, but it is large enough to me. I don't like to pay a premium and then have the feeling of being worked over. To compete against the kitchen table FFL the store has to offer something extra for the money not just some sense of entitlement. Maybe the difference between being a customer and a mark?
pete
gunrunners
Ed,
Reread "Midnight" and "Firestar"s posts. I'm of the opinion that they're more to the mark on most gun dealers. There are a few out there that actually are deserving of an "honest reputation", but even considering that it's a tough hustle with all the liabilities, I've only dealt with one dealer out of about 15 that I trust, and he's a personal friend of a friend.
I'll be in Mississippi soon; what's the names of those gunshops you mentioned, and where are they?
Ed,
Reread "Midnight" and "Firestar"s posts. I'm of the opinion that they're more to the mark on most gun dealers. There are a few out there that actually are deserving of an "honest reputation", but even considering that it's a tough hustle with all the liabilities, I've only dealt with one dealer out of about 15 that I trust, and he's a personal friend of a friend.
I'll be in Mississippi soon; what's the names of those gunshops you mentioned, and where are they?
"Caveat emptor" and "a fool and his money are soon parted," apply to most of us when we first get into buying big ticket items. I found it better to sell my mistakes myself. There's always somebody out there who wants it and will give you a lot more than a dealer. The difference is you got to put out the effort so it's work, and if you count your time as money it may be better off for you to take the $280 because you will spend time selling your stuff. 
Just two more pennies in the kitty. 
Just two more pennies in the kitty. George Hill
Member
Ed, your near Big Foot country. Load the Marlin up with some heavy jacketed softpoints and keep it handy "Just In Case."
Never know when you might run into Big Foot. Oh, and make sure your camera has an Auto Focus so you can post some clear pics of the critter once you put it down.
Never know when you might run into Big Foot. Oh, and make sure your camera has an Auto Focus so you can post some clear pics of the critter once you put it down.
About 20 years ago I had a dealer that would give a pretty good trade, he tried to make a little money on your gun and full price for what you were trading for. Ok thats reasonable and myself and others just swarmed to his place on Saturdays. Often the trade-in was sold before he concluded the deal with the current owner! That ended due to his greed, and so did his customer flow. I drop in every 2 years or so to see if his target audience are still first time buyers, they are and he seldom has more than 1 customer in his store at one time. 
Stevie-Ray
Member
I traded my Millenium for my Kimber Ultra CDP. Had paid $349 for the Taurus, he wanted $949 for the Kimber. Gave me $260 for the Taurus, what he said he pays for new ones. Yeah, not good business for me, but at least I'm happy now.
Zundfolge
Member
The fact that so many people don't understand how capitalism works astounds (and frightens) me, whats worse is how people expect small businessmen to sell their products at break even.
He paid $679 to Bushmaster for the rifle, he pays $X a month for rent on the store, the rifle takes up a part of that space so a percentage of that rent also goes into the rifle. He also pays for insurance, taxes, licenses, maybe an employee ... that also gets added to what the Bushmaster cost him.
I wonder how long the particular AR15 sat there in the store. I've seen decent rifles that are not over priced sit on the shelf at a gun shop for close to a year (there was a particular Armalite I used to drool over at a gun shop I used to frequent) ... so that $679 is tied up in that rifle and not making him any money (if money sits, it shrinks because of inflation).
Everyone needs to go get this book : Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell
45Badger
Member
Shops have gotta know and trust their customers and vice versa. I lived in SE Wisconsin for two years, and accidentally found probably the best gun shop/dealer I've ever dealt with. Dam Road Gun Shop, in Delavan. Priced their guns, new and used, fairly.
They were NEVER the cheapest on new guns. Used gun prices were fair, and reflected what he had in them. They stood behind every gun they sold, new and used, shared great knowledge, and were the nicest folks in the world to deal with.
I got some fair, good, and amazing deals at that shop. I bought about 8 guns from them, had about 4 transferred in ($25 to process) and sold 4 on consignment (10%). I think I was a good customer, but I was probably average for them. They are a small shop in a small farming community, but everytime I went in there, there were 4-10 customers buying, trying, ordering, picking up.
I bought a new stainless T/C Encore muzzleloader at the end of deer season in 2001. I kept it in original box in guest room closet. In April, found I was being transferred to PA (muzzleloading is flintlock only). They took the Encore in on trade at full value, knowing I would be moving away in a few months.
That's the kind of shop and people that will get my business every time, every day. They treat their customers as long term investments, not just a quick transaction.
They were NEVER the cheapest on new guns. Used gun prices were fair, and reflected what he had in them. They stood behind every gun they sold, new and used, shared great knowledge, and were the nicest folks in the world to deal with.
I got some fair, good, and amazing deals at that shop. I bought about 8 guns from them, had about 4 transferred in ($25 to process) and sold 4 on consignment (10%). I think I was a good customer, but I was probably average for them. They are a small shop in a small farming community, but everytime I went in there, there were 4-10 customers buying, trying, ordering, picking up.
I bought a new stainless T/C Encore muzzleloader at the end of deer season in 2001. I kept it in original box in guest room closet. In April, found I was being transferred to PA (muzzleloading is flintlock only). They took the Encore in on trade at full value, knowing I would be moving away in a few months.
That's the kind of shop and people that will get my business every time, every day. They treat their customers as long term investments, not just a quick transaction.
4
4 eyed six shooter
Guest
One other thing to add, the dealer is paying you money out of his pocket. There is no telling how long the gun will sit in the rack until it is sold. This plus the other things mentioned by others is why the low offer is made. I am a gunsmith and buy and sell used firearms on a limited basis. A lot of time is spent showing the firearm or if it's an internet deal, taking pictures, e-mailing and then shipping the firearm to the other dealer. Every man has a right to make a fair profit for time and investment spent. Please don't be put off by your dealers offer, he is only trying to survive a in a very tough business. Prior to going into the business myself, I bought and sold alot of firearms from one dealer. After the first few sales he started giving me better prices due to the fact that he valued my business. If I had a problem with a firearm bought from him, he took care of it for me. Sometimes good service is worth a few extra bucks.
Best wishes, John K
Best wishes, John K
I understand that market forces mean that I don't care. I'm not going to spend more than an extra hundred dollars so that this guy can cover his overhead. He doesn't have a "right" to my money, which I can find better uses for than providing artificial support for the gun dealer. Welfare for gun dealers doesn't play well with me. Maybe he should ask for a government grant or TIFs instead.
That I'd be willing to pay something more than I would pay to do a transfer with a "kitchen table" FFL for the benefits of customer service and convenience certainly figure into the equation, but those benefits certainly aren't price-inflexible.
Who really doesn't understand economics?
PATH
Member
Trade ins will seldom net you the money you expect. I don't do business with fly by nights who undercut legit shops. My .02 cents.
Ebbtide
Member
I guess I'll ad my 2 cents to this discussion.
I am passionate about my guns. Some people are passionate about tools, furniture, appliances, and mattresses.
I lump gun stores in with that same croud of retailers. There are a few good ones, and many bad ones. The good ones compete agianst the bads one and the bads ones should go out of bussiness if they don't adjust. Unfortunaley, most people only buy a gun, sofa, or carpet every ten years or so. These people are usually uninformed and go into bad deals with the bad retailers and they stay in business.
If there were no "complainers" there would be no change. The system would continue as is (low trade in values, high retail prices). But, thanks to people like this thread starter, I can get stuff cheaper elsewhere.
There is a market for lower cost guns via gun shows, internet, and big box stores. Gun shops will soon go the way of hardware, office supply and grocery stores for good reason (somewlse beat them to it).
Capitalism at its best!
ehenz
I am passionate about my guns. Some people are passionate about tools, furniture, appliances, and mattresses.
I lump gun stores in with that same croud of retailers. There are a few good ones, and many bad ones. The good ones compete agianst the bads one and the bads ones should go out of bussiness if they don't adjust. Unfortunaley, most people only buy a gun, sofa, or carpet every ten years or so. These people are usually uninformed and go into bad deals with the bad retailers and they stay in business.
If there were no "complainers" there would be no change. The system would continue as is (low trade in values, high retail prices). But, thanks to people like this thread starter, I can get stuff cheaper elsewhere.
There is a market for lower cost guns via gun shows, internet, and big box stores. Gun shops will soon go the way of hardware, office supply and grocery stores for good reason (somewlse beat them to it).
Capitalism at its best!
ehenz
2nd Amendment
member
Speaking for older used cars I can tell you this: If you aren't giving me your old car for my mark-up or less then I probably don't want it. I'm getting rid of a piece of inventory I know and have a known amount in and a known amount of mark-up on for something that may die as soon as you leave. I expect to therefore have nothing, or virtually nothing, in it. At worst then I simply don't make any money. At best I have to move two cars to make roughly the same money.
There's obviously exceptions to this but as a general rule that's the way it works. I'd guess that a gun dealer would work along the same lines, if he's smart. That's why I never trade. The old saying about how you're giving away your item is no joke. You are.
There's obviously exceptions to this but as a general rule that's the way it works. I'd guess that a gun dealer would work along the same lines, if he's smart. That's why I never trade. The old saying about how you're giving away your item is no joke. You are.
The Joys of Capitalism
Maybe to give an example that we can all agree on - I would venture to say that everybody here expects to get paid when he works. A person engaged in buying and selling is no different than the rest of us. A laborer is worthy of his hire and all that. The brick and mortar gun store has a tremendous amount of overhead and risk that the kitchen table gun dealer does not. Not only that, but the gunstore owner has to eat, too. The gunstore owner has to be there and deal with people face to face about factual things - guns that people can see and put up with all the niggling about condition and price breaks, etc. The kitchen table guy pulls out a catalog where the buyer chooses what he wants sight unseen. The dealer adds his markup, shipping, etc. and the buyer is on the hook for the package. I would rather deal with a face to face gun dealer anytime myself. YMMV. They are not ravenous wolves trying to eat out your substance for the most part.
Maybe to give an example that we can all agree on - I would venture to say that everybody here expects to get paid when he works. A person engaged in buying and selling is no different than the rest of us. A laborer is worthy of his hire and all that. The brick and mortar gun store has a tremendous amount of overhead and risk that the kitchen table gun dealer does not. Not only that, but the gunstore owner has to eat, too. The gunstore owner has to be there and deal with people face to face about factual things - guns that people can see and put up with all the niggling about condition and price breaks, etc. The kitchen table guy pulls out a catalog where the buyer chooses what he wants sight unseen. The dealer adds his markup, shipping, etc. and the buyer is on the hook for the package. I would rather deal with a face to face gun dealer anytime myself. YMMV. They are not ravenous wolves trying to eat out your substance for the most part.
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