Gun show loophole?

MikeInOr

MikeInOr

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All over the news today is Biden's action on closing the "Gun show loophole"!

In my home state of Oregon it hasn't been legal to do a private party sale/transfer of firearms without going through a FFL (which requires a background check) in many years. If you want to do a private party transfer in Oregon you legally have to do so through a FFL. In Oregon if you want to sell a gun without going through a FFL there is really nothing stopping you from doing so other than it is illegal. Evidently Biden is finally stopping the trade of firearms over the internet without a background check. The PNW gun trading website ( https://www.northwestfirearms.com/new/classifieds/ ) is completely built around transferring firearms through an FFL and anyone trying to do otherwise will be banned immediately.

I am curious how many members here live in a state in which Biden's new purposed legislation will have ANY affect?

Are there members on here that can legally buy/sell over the internet without the buyer going through a background check? Just curious if Biden's proposal will actually do anything or if it is just the election is coming so we better make as show on gun control even if it doesn't really do anything at all?


Spats McGee's edit: If we're going to talk about this, let's at least have a link, shall we? https://www.atf.gov/firearms/definition-engaged-business-dealer-firearms
 
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Not really defineable, so not really real- but "loophole is real and defineable. A loophole is a protected small opening which allows a firearm to be aimed and discharged while providing cover and/or concealment to the rifleman; to prevent detection, the rifle's muzzle should not protrude through the loophole. I'm certain that this is not what those people are referring to. In terms of law, there is what is legal and what is not. "Loophole" is something those people say when they don't like a law.
 
My understanding as a reasonably-read layman is the the federal government regulates interstate commerce in the context of firearms under well-established constitutional case law/precedent (for now). Going back to the WWII period. But it does not have authority to regulate intrastate commerce. So if a state does or does not have it's own laws, that is up to them, so long as they do not violate the US Constitution or federal law in doing so.

Is there a link which points to said (proposed?) action on the part of the executive branch?
 
The Gun Show Loophole goes back to the days when you could do private sales without involving an FFL. If you were Joe NonFFL and had 4 or 5 rifles you wanted to sell you could, in theory, pay the $25 it took to get a table at a gun show and put them out for sale. Then, again in theory, gangbangers could come to the gun show, buy one of your rifles and use it in a drive by shooting. No one ever proved that anything like this ever happened which is why I say; in theory. The Anti2A's got all worked up about this and they've been screeching about it ever since. This was in the late 80's or early 90's when you first started hearing about gangbangers using semi-auto AK's which had just started being imported in largish numbers.

ETA: The point being is that they could buy a gun/guns without the BATF or anyone knowing. Like I said; there's never been any proof that anything like that has ever happened. They labeled this the Gun Show Loophole.
 
Steel Horse Rider said:
I think the "Gun Show Loophole" is a cousin to the famous "Saturday Night Special". When I lived in the Texas Panhandle in the 1980's my favorite gun shop would always have a handgun on sale every Saturday as a "Saturday Night Special" but it was a different handgun every week.
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It's like 'Assault Rifle', it's a term the Anti2A crowd bandies around when they want to get their followers upset. Same with 'Gun Show Loophole'.
 
There is not such thing as a loop hole. There is compliance of the law, or non-compliance of the law.

In my state, private sales are legal, as long as you don't have reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person. No ID or FFL has to be involved.
 
In my state of AL it is still legal to meet someone in a parking lot to buy or sell a fiream without involving an FFL. Likewise it is still legal to rent a table at a gun show and do the same thing. Although the vast majority of gun shows are dealers trying to move some inventory in a far more competative way. Would it do much for crime rates in gangbanger playgrounds like Birmingham, Mobile, and Montgomery? Probably not. Just another control measure to make the uninformed leftist voting base feel good about themselves and leaders.
 
In NC, technically, a purchaser was supposed to have a "permit to purchase" from the county Sheriff, but those went away this year. Now, anyone with a concealed carry permit can purchase from an individual or a FFL just by showing a picture ID and his CC permit. I suppose most private transfers in this state have been done without much in the way of paperwork, except for the green dead presidents changing hands. I don't see that changing much.
 
herrwalther said:
In my state of AL it is still legal to meet someone in a parking lot to buy or sell a fiream without involving an FFL. Likewise it is still legal to rent a table at a gun show and do the same thing. Although the vast majority of gun shows are dealers trying to move some inventory in a far more competative way. Would it do much for crime rates in gangbanger playgrounds like Birmingham, Mobile, and Montgomery? Probably not. Just another control measure to make the uninformed leftist voting base feel good about themselves and leaders.
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Same in AZ
 
I read the summary and scanned through the first 50 pages of the 108 page PDF. While the new definitions would tighten the “gun show loophole”, it would in no way eliminate it. In Iowa I could still go setup camp at gun shows and sell a dozen guns from my collection without issue.

The new definitions would make it harder for people operating on the edge to claim they didn’t need to be licensed. People are out there buying and selling guns on a regular basis but claiming they don’t need to be licensed for one silly reason or another. These people give legitimate dealers and owners a bad name.
 
Read the text carefully (think Dettelbach, Garland). The "rule" proposes to classify as a "dealer" "any person selling guns online or at gun shows." Think classifieds, that blaster yer totin to the Fall gunshow to trade for that deer rifle you traded after the season closed. This is sinister especially since 14 "party members" crossed the aisle to vote for Uncle Grampa's last "idea." Joe
 
Private Face to Face gun sales here in GA are legal.

There are a lot of tables at gun shows with signs stating, "Private sale". There are websites where people can advertise their guns and then arrange a meeting place to make the transaction. To be legal both the buyer and seller must be GA residents.

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Some are people getting rid of private collections. Some are doing it as a business. So yes it is common here.

I've bought and sold quite a few over the years. I've never been in it to make money like some. I've sold a few at a profit, but most of the time I'm just trying to sell/trade something I no longer use and not lose too much on the deal.

But anymore I have concerns about someone getting one of my guns who shouldn't. I don't want that burden on me. Lately I've simply sold unwanted guns to a local gun shop. I don't get quite as much for them, but it is pretty simple. A lot easier than trying to meet someone. And I let them be responsible for making sure the buyer is legal.
 
jmr40 said:
But anymore I have concerns about someone getting one of my guns who shouldn't. I don't want that burden on me. Lately I've simply sold unwanted guns to a local gun shop. I don't get quite as much for them, but it is pretty simple. A lot easier than trying to meet someone. And I let them be responsible for making sure the buyer is legal.
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It was 2015 when Oregon started requiring FFL's and background checks for all private gun transfers. I bought several and sold a couple before then. Everyone I did business with was a friend and to this day can tell law enforcement who they sold their Springfield 1911 or Remington 700 to. I never would have dreamt of selling a gun to a stranger off the street or buying from one before the law. To tell the truth the Oregon 2015 FFL / background check law greatly expanded the number of people (Strangers) that I will buy from or sell to.

Living in a small town the local FFL's charge about $50 for a transfer plus the $10 background check. It is about a 40 minute drive to the FFL's that only charge $20 + $10.

I really doubt that any felon looking to do bad that wants a gun in Oregon would have much trouble getting one. But at least they won't be buying it from me. I do wonder and would love to see some REAL stats on how many guns are left at a crime scene and of those how many are traced back to the owner through "the system" resulting in an arrest???

One thing I did just discover because of looking into this "Biden Loophole" is: Oregon law automatically restores a non-violent felon's firearm rights fifteen years after the end of their sentence. There are also provisions to petition to have your gun rights restored before the 15 years. Evidently there is a real "Loophole" in which your gun owning rights are effectively restored immediately after a felony if you are the son of the President.
 
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This is just monkeying around the edges of what it means to be "engaged in the business" of gun dealing. I doubt it would have much effect, one way or the other.
 
The Gun Show Loophole goes back to the days when you could do private sales without involving an FFL.
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You still can under federal law (as long as the transaction doesn't take place across state lines) and you still can in most states.

There is no Gun Show Loophole. Basically federal law allows private sales between non-licensed individuals as long as both are residents of the same state and the seller has no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person. That's true whether the sale takes place at one person's home, in a car, on the sidewalk, or at a Gun Show.
 
theotherwaldo said:
Here in Texas, all that I have to do is show my License to Carry Handgun and my ID to a seller and everything is fine.
-Individual-to-individual sales are fine, as well, with or without being at a gun show, although I always record the buyer's ID on the rare occasions that I am selling or trading a weapon... .
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This is not accurate.

There is no requirement in Texas to show a license to carry or ID to someone to sell a gun in a private transaction. There are certainly people who require that, but they do so on their own accord and generally just limit the buyer pool for their particular firearms.
 
Agsalaska said:
This is not accurate.

There is no requirement in Texas to show a license to carry or ID to someone to sell a gun in a private transaction. There are certainly people who require that, but they do so on their own accord and generally just limit the buyer pool for their particular firearms.
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It is accurate in that any firearm purchase from a merchant requires either a background check or a current ID and a License to Carry Handgun.
 
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