Gun show prices?

[Zeke Menuar]

Just in case y'all were wondering why we're getting out of the gun show biz, ya buncha skinflints...

I am a skinflint on a good day. Most of the time I am the cheapest, SOB on the planet.

Here in Monsoon Central there is really only one outfit that does shows. Same vendors, same stuff. $300 Yugo SKS's. $150 Mosin-Nagants with the CAI billboard. The prices on new guns are the same as in the gunstores so there is no point in shopping for a new gun at a show. Used guns are about the same. In ten years of trolling gunshows I bought only one gun, a really good quality Ishapore 2A for $125 dollars. But I think a find like that is the exception rather than the rule. The only real advantage I can see is that many vendors are in one place making shopping a bit easier. The prices are usually the same or higher than a regular gunstore.

I notice that the gunshow crowd seems to be different than the crowd that hangs out here at THR. These folks read the gun rags and pay attention. Buy a lot of there stuff at big chain stores and have never heard of Midway or Brownells. They don't seem to be as saavy about guns as we are. I watched in horror as a guy at the Canby show bought a cosmo soaked Yugo SKS for $299. I bought a better quality Yugo from AIM for $80 including shipping. So the vendors may be catering to a different group of firearms enthusiasts. Maybe the gunshows vendors count on potential buyers that aren't very informed about what they are looking for.

I must point out there is a once a year show in Rickreall OR that is a great show. It is an independent show, separate from the travelling circuit shows usually seen here.

This is my opinion, your opinion may vary

ZM

 

[eagle45]

Well, I don't always go to the gun show here in Dayton just to buy a gun, even though I love browsing through them for an hour or two. I also pick up my reloading supplies there, always cheaper than having it shipped UPS. Then there is the chance of picking up a good case knife from time to time (even tho the last one was a SW). So I guess I think of a number of reasons to go.

When I do purchase a gun, there is one dealer there from Loveland Ohio that invariably has everyone else beat on price. Typically $20 to $40 cheaper than the closest competitor. So he generally gets my business at the show if it is a decision based solely on price.

Now the closest gun shop to me is north of Dayton about 20 miles away. Their prices are usually a little higher and they don't bother going to the gun shows. While I've never asked why, I assume it's too much work hauling everything back and forth for the priviledge of being expected to sell it cheaper. They do however, offer at their store the best selection of firearms, accessories, safes, archery, clothing etc, plus gunsmithing services. I give them as much business as I can, after the realization of how far I'd have to drive to find the next store with all the goodies that they carry. So, they may not be the cheapest, but I do like supporting business that support the cause of gun ownership. Plus it's a friendly family oriented business.

I guess my point is that with all the folks out there trying to take my guns away, I like supporting the folks that are fighting the battle. Price alone is not always the biggest issue.

 

[schromf]

I like going to a good gunshow, but I admit I seldom buy. I do get business cards and contact sellers later though and have made many post show purchases.

A couple of reasons are I am usually looking at upscale stuff, which isn't going to be a quick mover, and usually has a steep price tag. The other reason is on my run of the mill purchases like a Glock, or a new S&W I have FFL's that already will give me the best or close to price. I place a lot of importance on loyality and friendship. Just because my FFL can't save me $10.00 on this purchase, it is a give and take situation, the next purchase could save me $200 and this happens frequently, and I many times purchase items that never get to the tables at the show, I get handpicked items. I have purchased many pistols and rifles that way. As a matter of fact if I show up at the tables the marked price and my price are usually way different, usually by a large margin. My last purchase this was $250 difference on a L61R Sako, no agruement, and I didn't even need to ask, he told me that straight up when he handed me the rifle.

Do I always win on this? No, but I know when they are telling me straight up what they have into their guns, and I expect them to make money, I don't argue about price, if it is too rich for my blood I tell them so. They know if I say I want it, its sold with no horsing around. I also move an occasional piece this way, I hand them the gun, tell them to move it and make money on the sale. This is a win win situation, I don't need to worry about a private sale and the BATF paperwork, they have an item they will make money on with no investment on their part. I am in a position where I don't expect cash back at the moment and the sales go to my account, which I spend later at my discretion. I also get asked my opinion alot on certain firearms where I am very knowledgable, when they are buying. They know these are areas where I have focused and tend to know a lot about subtle variations which drive values and correct configurations. Another area I tend to helpful is when I run across a good deal I tell them about it if its something I have no interest in. I have always had the favor returned, maybe not in a tick for tack method, I have had many favors returned at their cost.

Does this work for everyone, probably not you need to be able to purchase many firearms a year and have the income to support it. I also admit these are people I know both them, and their families, and they are always welcome at my house of a cup of coffee/and lunch , and trip into the shop gabbing about my current project or vice versa, if I or they are in the neighborhood.

 

[huntsman]

amen DCR, when I go to the shows I want to see the pre-64 winchesters, and the savage md 99 and american doubles. These are the type guns that when you find the right calliber and condition and agree on a price you feel you got a good deal and both are happy.

I think the problem is the market for collectable guns is limited, most vendors carry the surplus and cammo and junk because that's what joe average want's to buy. They spend a few bucks on a few trinkets and kill an afternoon for fun.

If I want to buy in production guns I go to a local shop they match or beat any price on the net give me good service and will deal with any trouble I have. The problem is they don't carry say Ruger RED labels or Browning o/u's
and if I want a colt woodsman 2nd series or a 4" dimondback in a .22cal I'm out of luck, oh the can try to find one but I'd rather go to the show put my hands on it check it out and buy it on the spot if it fits the bill.

 

[Fed168]

The Dixie in NC is just going downhill. Gun prices have not really come down that much, and others are just plain old over priced. I don't expect a vendor with a semi auto made before 1994 to come off their prices until they are ready to take a loss.

Heck, one of the new Vektor AKs was going for $895.

 

[mike45]

Gun Shows

I have been going to gun shows for over 20 years in the Cincinnati/Dayton area. I have made some good deals and have lost some money in deals.

I have set up a table about 4 different times over the years to sell some stuff to get rid of it so I could buy something else... some guys (and gals) got some good deals there. When shopping, I sometimes look for those type of people setting up just to sell their stuff. I sometimes will go to a dealer for something I need/want.

There is a short, fat dealer who usually deals in military items. I bought an airweight .38 from him for the price he had on it because I needed it ($350) He said it was from a friend and probably unfired... Not true, but it was in good shape and I wanted it. A few months later I saw a .41 S&W in his case and I thought the price was a little high so I just asked "is that the best price you have on that gun?". The guy went off on me... stated he has his costs etc.

I can always say "no" in any deal but I get tired of the dealers who think they're "tactical" just because they're salesmen. Most of these guys have never carried a gun in harms way and don't know a damn thing about it.

Gun Shows...

Mike

 

[BlkHawk73]

They're like that here in Maine too. I think a big part is that the dealers know peeople are gonna talk the price down so they mark 'em up to begin with. Another thing is that the deales are also counting on impulse buying. These attendees have that "gun fever" and the urge to buy is great. Why not capitalize on that? Just before hunting season is the worst time for hunting rifles usually. Buy those at the shoes after the season ends. Handguns are gonna be high at shows regardless of the season. I've also found that most of the dealers at shows are about as scrupulous as a used car salesman. You need to know which ones are the good ones and hich to avoid. That's a big key.

 

[GD]

Gun show prices

I read this after missing out on a Finnish P26, Finnish M91/24 Bohler Stahl, and a Finnish M27 carbine at $70 each at the Wichita gunshow. :banghead:

 

[Rexrider]

Kor said....

2) A lot of the deals at gun shows in the early/mid-90's came from "kitchen-table FFL's" and smaller dealers who were hounded out of gun dealing in the Clinton administration, and had to mark-down and blow-out their inventory just to get out from under it. Any dealers that were/are left are not, like Tamara pointed out, particularly anxious to spend extra time/money/effort on setting up a show booth unless they can sell their guns for as much, or more, than they can get for them at their storefront during the rest of the week.

DING DING DING
I think we have a winner!
The biggest change to occur over the '90's was the crackdown on "kitchen-table FFL's". Dealers must have a true business with all the over-head that goes with it. I would imagine a lot of the kitchen-table FFL's used gun shows as their storefront. Since their only over-head was the cost and time of getting to the show.

Tamara said...

There's just no feeling like the happiness you get when you spend $1400 and hours of sweat for the privilege of having the very first customer of the show walk up to your table and pick up a gun that cost you $450, is tagged at $550, is in the Blue Book at $600, and say "Wouldja take $300 for this?" It's a thousand wonders more people don't get pistol-whipped at those shindigs.

I worked one gun show a couple of years ago to help out a family member who did have his own shop. This was at the Valley Forge Convention Center in PA. Let me tell you, working the other side of the table is quite an eye opener. Remember, the idea is to make a profit. Not give your stuff away.

We were lucky enough to live about an hour away so we did not need to pay for hotel rooms. But he did have to rent a U-haul trailer, gas, food, and drinks. So there is the overhead just to show up. Don't forget the fee for the table. Then the time and effort to set up, tear down, set up again for the 2nd day, and tear down again.

And yes, people do walk up and expect you to give your stuff away. I even scouted the floor for him to make sure none of his prices were out of line. There just is not enough room in the profit margin to haggle on prices if you are selling at a legit prices. So, you either inflate prices so someone has the joy of bickering the price down or you set prices that are competitive so people don't keep walking past your table.....but then they still want to haggle...even over a dollar. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It was a waste of a weekend. I can't remember, but I think we sold a .22 rifle and a shotgun. He never came close to breaking even. That was the end of shows for him and later on he closed shop and dropped his FFL. The shop was a second full time job. It just was not worth it for him. After that experience, I don't know how dealers afford to go to shows. My best guess is some dealers just write off the loss as advertising expense.

No matter how much it may anger you to see someone selling a $300 dollar Yugo. Remember, It’s your money. No one makes people spent it. It always has been and always will be "buyer beware".

My personal favorite moment on the buying side of the table. An old used Colt single action for $3000. I asked why it was so expensive. He said "it belonged to a Texas Ranger". So I asked "who was the Ranger, was he famous or something"? He said "I don't know, it just belonged to a Ranger".

 

[Tamara]

FireStar_M40,

Most gun dealers (be it at gun shows.. or their store), don't understand the theory and application of $$$ vs time vs profit.

Believe me, I'd rather make a fast nickel than a slow dime any day of the week.

One problem is that FFL's who survive their shaky first year usually do so by being careful with margins. The hitch is, however, that the business can only grow to a certain point if you're a slave to a rigid margin. Volume items don't need as much of a margin, since they make up for it with volume sales. The business can't grow past a certain point without more volume, and that requires flexibility in pricing structure...

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm getting a hoot listening to the dealers complain about the customers. I hope everyone else is too.
Look, just like customers dont have to buy the guns, dealers dont have to show there. Besides, people go to shows to pick up bargains or hard-to-get stuff. If you dont have either of those, dont show.
Yes, having worked in a gun store I realize the margin on new guns is pitiful. So dont bring new guns to sell. Dont buy new guns at shows. Life is pretty simple, really.
What gets me is that the dealers are not complaining about all the guys who get tables every show with tons of merchandise that changes every time. If these are not dealers I dont know what is.

 

[datasmith]

I've bought a few guns at gun shows here in North Carolina. Last time I went to one was last month and I also didn't see any deals as far as price was concerned. Also you have to take into account here the $5 minimum charge for a purchase permit, the $4 for parking and the $6 to get in. Add that to the bottom line. Of course this year Gov. Easly made it much easier for me to purchase a gun since I have a CCW permit. Worked great at my local dealer, but I don't know if it works at NC gun shows, or if you still need a purchase permit there.

I have found great parking lot deals at gun shows. It's a great place to meet others interested in trades, buys or sells.

 

[greg531mi]

Most of you have never been on the other side of the table.....I had one guy, uncoil every sling I had, then dump them on the table, and left. Then, about everyone picked up my guns, not asking, and then almost throw them down, of course the wrong way, price tag not showing, and saying something nasty, like that's a old garbage war horse, that I could have bought for $10 back in the 50's. Then, there's the guy, that wants to talk all day, while others want to deal with you. Then, there's the bottom feeders, I call them, want to buy a 308 Mauser, in nice shape, priced at $150, for $75. Then, there's the rip off people, who want it free, and while you are not looking, pocket it, and walk off.
That is why, when I want to pick up a gun, I ask, never say anything bad about the gun or price, and if I want a better price, I ask is that your best price? Then, I set the gun down, exactly where I found it, and put the price tag right side up, and say, THANK YOU!!!!
Mothers and Fathers must have not taught their kids Proper Manners any more, like Please, and Thank You, I guess.......

 

[Tamara]

Look, just like customers dont have to buy the guns, dealers dont have to show there.

Fear not! We won't, anymore. Then I'll get to hear y'all whining about how you went to the gun show and "Gosh! No dealers were set up there! Just a bunch of beanie baby sellers!"

Went to this weekend's Holloway show here in K-Town to wander the aisles and visit with friends. Between extortionate table rates, a promoter who learned his business relation skills from Ghengis Khan, an entry fee nothing short of highway robbery, and market oversaturation, there were over a third fewer tables than usual (lending a ghost town aspect to the show) and a paucity of customers. The biggest danger at the show was tripping over a tumbleweed in the aisles and breaking one's neck...

 

[The Rabbi]

Fear not! We won't, anymore. Then I'll get to hear y'all whining about how you went to the gun show and "Gosh! No dealers were set up there! Just a bunch of beanie baby sellers!"

Good for you! To show or not to show should be a business decision, like anything else. If it's profitable, then dealers will show. If it's not, they wont. If dealers stop coming altogether then the show organizers will get the idea that something is wrong and try to make it more attractive (lower entry fees, lower table fees, etc).
You probably don't stock a complete selection of Hammerli target pistols, Anschutz target rifles and Barrett .50 cals either. Not that there is anything wrong with these guns but the market for them just isnt that big. Same with shows. If its not worth it, its not worth it.