Gun Simulators / Games for Training

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damien

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Is anyone aware of what kind of gun simulators police and military use for training purposes and what their capabilities are? Are there any commercial games and hardware for current consoles (e.g. Wii/XBOX360/PS3) that are capable enough to count as training rather than entertainment?

Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
I've read somewhere that Chinese military use Counterstrike for simulated training.
 
I've read somewhere that Chinese military use Counterstrike for simulated training.
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That would be real cheapo training! I was wondering what the pros use for realistic training. I would think the high-end stuff might involve real guns with blank adapters integrated into some sort of computer-controller simulation, but who knows. They do this for golf simulation - real clubs and balls, when the ball hits the tarp, the computer computes the trajectory and finishes the simulation while the ball rolls back to you. I don't know anything about this. All I know is most gun games that I have played have been very unrealistic. The gun controllers for mass-market consoles are extremely unrealistic (no recoil, muzzle flash, muzzle blast, report, etc.)
 
You can get basic concepts from games like Rainbow Six but I wouldn't call it training in the least.
 
MILES is what they used to use, I dont know about today.

Video gaming war or battles etc is not too realistic because of statistics and other influences induce "Me me me me" more than "Platoon, Squad, Fireteam"

America's Army does a good job with it's training and such.

But as with all video games, it's a game.
 
Video gaming war or battles etc is not too realistic because of statistics and other influences induce "Me me me me" more than "Platoon, Squad, Fireteam"
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Sure, that is certainly the case with the military. So what do police use then? I would think that a lot of their training is more individual. They usually don't roll with a whole platoon at once.
 
I was wondering what the pros use for realistic training.
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The latest training technology includes video simulators that employ gas operated, tetherless laser guns in a variety of life-sized screen modes from flat wall screens to 360 degree surround.

Shoot/No Shoot video scenarios are filmed with alternate branches that range from benign to violent threat. These branches can be manipulated by the trainer. Outcomes are determined by the trainee's responses, and instant feed-back is given. For example, red or green dots on the screen show where you hit or miss in a shooting scenario. They can even include a set-up you wear on your wrist that snaps you if you get "hit".

I got to run a couple of scenarios on an older system in a civilian training class. Even the less sophisticated system was impressive, and it really gets the adreneline pumping.

This was followed up by a "debriefing" with the instructors (LEOs) to determine things like: "What did you see?"..."Why did you shoot?"....or...."Why didn't you shoot?"

If anybody is offering F.A.T.S training or similar experience in your area - I HIGHLY recomend it.

I was so impressed with the experience I did some research and found out what the current state-of-the-art is...and how much it costs. A lot.

Check this link for more info:

www.virtra.com
 
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If anybody is offering F.A.T.S training or similar experience in your area - I HIGHLY recomend it.

I was so impressed with the experience I did some research and found out what the current state-of-the-art is...and how much it costs. A lot.

Check this link for more info:

www.virtra.com
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Thank you, thank you. That is exactly the response I was hoping for. I am already starting to look at your links. Apparently, this place has a F.A.T.S. simulator open to the public:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Crime_&_Punishment

Twenty-eight interactive stations include the high-speed police chase simulators used in the training of law enforcement officers, and a Firearms Training Simulator (F.A.T.S.) similar to that utilized by the FBI
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when i was in younger/ college, I love the Time crisis arcade series. The kind you need to step on the foot pedal to shoot and release to cover and reload. Dunno if this is what you're talking about, but it does help a bit with point shooting though.
 
In the '90s the MarineCorps used a modified version of Doom to work Fire Team tactics. This combined w/ Simunitions for force on force, and FATS worked pretty well from what I heard.
 
If you buy a commercial game, all you will learn is how to play the game. Every training simulation that is used that was based on a video game was very highly modified.

F.A.T.S., ROBBEC and the other systems out there were all designed from the ground up to be training simulators. And while they are better then nothing, they are inferior to properly planned, resourced and condcted force on force training.
 
On the Xbox 360 I'd think the Tom Clancy games would be pretty darn good as far as strategies/tactics in obtaining cover etc. Also very realistic - one shot in an unprotected area and you can die!

Halo 3 is AWESOME but nothing like real shooting!!!
 
On the Xbox 360 I'd think the Tom Clancy games would be pretty darn good as far as strategies/tactics in obtaining cover etc. Also very realistic - one shot in an unprotected area and you can die!
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Don't even go there. We have a rule about realism here in Strategies and Tactics. We aren't going to discuss using any commercial video game as a training tool. It's not realistic. We won't waste bandwidth on that subject......
 
I actually work with a research group with my university (for a human factors minor) and we actually do have something that the Army developed called GDIS which is a mod of counterstrike.

However, more so than firearms training it's used for team simulation and teaching how to form a cohesive unit.
 
Wax Bullets.

Mentors used Wax Bullets when I was a wittle kid. We did not even have a television.
Years later when we got one , it had 3 stations, that came on around 5:30 am and it went off the air about 9:30 pm, with the National Anthem
Rabbit ears...
Black and white picture...
"Injun" came on when there was no programming.

Real is having your butt popped at around midnight because you snuck out of bed to shoot that 'injun' with corks from a lever action and suction darts from a 1911 looking dart gun.


Mentors would set up a Movie projector, or Slide Projector , and have the movie/slides show onto the wall of a barn or similar structure.
Safe backstops and all that...

Now I wondered as a wittle kid, how come some movies being made, or pictures being taken were they way they were.
I mean they told me, still until I saw them projected onto a safe backstop, I did not understand.

"Young-un, now see this right here <mentor pointing to a projected still image> what would you do?"

-Sometimes I was to run, like the one with a person chasing another with a machete.

-A holdup, and it showed a way for a kid to run and get help, I was supposed to say so.

-Chain Gang is working and one is running away...I was supposed to tell an adult, and call Sheriff /Police .

-Bank Robbery and I am downtown and see Bad Guys run out of a bank.
I was supposed to:
(a) "get an adult",(the one I was with, or storekeeper near)
(b) find the beat cop,
(c) put my emergency dime into the pay phone, dial "O" for operator and tell her. Oh, and the operator would give me my emergency dime back.
(various aspects of this type of thing they mentored me on)

-Some I had a clear shot, and did shoot with wax bullets from a revolver. Different stuff.

Now besides wax bullets, they did these "set ups" with .22 rim-fire, center-fire, and shotgun loads.
Safe backstops, still live ammo.

Now brain-fade on the names of simulators Police, Military and others use, which I have done and these are great if you get a chance to do these, do so.

Still I remember wax bullets, and these projected images.

One time I totally missed, I mean the wax mark was on the wall.
I "fixed-ed" it. All it took was scooting the slide machine over a bit and I hit the BG. *smart huh*

"Young-Un! You ain't supposed to do that!" - Mentors hollered, then they got to snickering and chuckling and trying to hide the fact they were.


*innocent wittle boy wook*
 
sounds like fun, but it'd be a b***h to reload/ load them wax bullets unless they are commercially available. Are they ?


edit: whooops i thought there's swear filter.
 
Xring rubber bullets. Get em from midway, they just use a primer and are reusable, its as close as your going to get. As far as the simulators that the army has, there great but they lack a lot. A gun that shoots a laser at a screen is just that, MILES well now that's good stuff right there, but for a civilian just go buy some airsoft. I used to do a lot of airsoft and it can be a big help. I would always introduce a new shooter on one before I let them move up to a real gun. Saves ammo and if they mess up... the worst they can do is a welt.
 
Speer Plastic Training bullets are primer fired and reusable.

Now all you need is to follow Gun Rules of Safety and Training, have a place to project images/movies, and you have some quality training and quality practice tools

I do recommend and cannot stress enough, getting some persons with training to give you quality instructions and over see quality practice.

With technology being more hi-tech than it was when I was wittle,...
Though change is the only constant, correct basic fundamentals never do.

Kodak slides, 8mm movies, wax bullets,...
Speer Training Bullets, laptop with projection set up
Simuntions, FoF...

Caveat to the armchair rangers if you have Speer Plastic Bullets and images projected and doing this.
That old man with a cane and old old Colt DS will kick your butt six ways to Sunday.

Don't make fun of the over age 60 gal with a "grand child" in hand, Model 10 snubby, wearing a GRITS* apron either.

These two might not know much about computers, Internet, or X boxes...they do have Software though.

* Girls Raised In The South.

*griiiiinnn*
 
This is a PC only game and new.

ArmA 2 is the sequel of ArmA : Armed Assault (ArmA : Combat Operations) and from the authors of Operation Flashpoint : Cold War Crisis/Resistance/Elite.

Bohemia Interactive has been developing this engine for over 10 years. Their simulators are used by Armies all over the world, including the United States and UK Ministry of Defence.

Germany Release Date: May 29, 2009
UK and rest of Europe: June 19, 2009
United States: June 26, 2009

http://www.arma2.com/

Their latest release is Virtual Battlespace 2: http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/
 
Armed Assault has a wide variety of firearms, vehicles, accessories, etc etc that operate on realworld data for the most part. I learned a good bit about shooting with ironsights from that game. I got it for that reason, actually. I wanted a place to try out some ideas where I could do some "real" shooting without wasting a box of ammo.


Also, you could take a look at silent storm, silent storm 2, brigade, and 7.62 high calibre. These games offer a slowed down aspect on combat. Instead of focusing on a goal and simply moving toward it, you instead focus on time, and how long everything will take you to complete..

example, you want to run toward a house that may or may not have someone in it, will you have enough time to make to a position of cover from everyone else, but are exposed to a potential vulnerability, can you handle that? The same applies to the enemy.. you've all got choices..

Can the enemy get his gun through the door, aimed at you, and discharged if you're aiming at the door waiting and all you have to do is A.) notice, and B.) pull the trigger?


neither are terribly realistic, BUT, it does humble you a bit when you realize the mistake you made, just like in real life, got you killed in a video game.
 
This is the end.....Video games are not, I repeat NOT on topic anywhere at THR. Anyone who thinks they are learning anything about ral combat from a commercial video game is kidding themselves.
 
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