Gun that Oswald used.

[tuj]

Oswald was a surprisingly good shot who made the luckiest 2 shots in history (the third missed). FBI snipers have replicated his feat with the same model gun and it can be done, but its not at all repeatable or easy.

What's more strange is not so much his weapon choice, but rather the fact that he didn't shoot when the motorcade was moving more directly towards him, which is an easier shot. Instead something made him wait until they turned away by about 45 degrees.

The more you read about the case, the more murky it becomes, but regardless of what I have read, the balance of probabilities lies that Oswald and Oswald alone did it.

With a magic bullet.

 

[rsrocket1]

Herters described it as "the gun that lost the war for Italy". They made no bones that it was a piece of junk

To be politically incorrect,
It's the indian, not the arrow. Maybe it should be the Italian, not the rifle.

 

[Midwest]

Ruby's .38 was a Colt Cobra. Oswald's was a S&W. Here is an interesting article about its purchase by LHO.



Where Oswald got the Carcano.

Thank you for the info and the links. And thanks to everyone else for the info too.

I also found this most interesting from the link you provided

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/08/oswalds-mail-order-revolver-purchase.html


"Texas law states that one who wishes to purchase a pistol or handgun must first obtain from a justice of the peace, county judge, or district judge of the county of his residence a certificate of good character."

I wasn't aware that there was a requirement in Texas in 1963 for a "certificate of good character" in order to buy a pistol.

I also found the references to the "Dodd hearings" interesting too. As most know, Senator Thomas Dodd (D) of Connecticut lead the infamous "Dodd hearings" on gun control which led up to the 1968 Gun Control Act which many attribute to Thomas Dodd...and his hearings. There were hearings as early as January 1963 into mail order gun business.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._Dodd

"As chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency, Dodd worked to restrict the purchase of mail order handguns, and later shotguns and rifles. These efforts culminated in the Gun Control Act of 1968, which Dodd introduced, including certain registration requirements."

Thomas Dodd was also the second lawyer in the Nuremberg trials right after WWII and many have speculated that he spoke fluent German and was familiar with German laws, including the Nazi Gun Laws.

Most interesting, thanks...
.

 

[Red Wind]

You're welcome,Midwest.

BTW,Tuj, most experts now feel that it was the first shot that missed, not the 3rd and final. That final shot was the head shot.
The 2nd shot hit both JFK and Governor Connolly.

 

[ROAshooter]

?

Correct me if I miss remember...but on the add for the Carcano....was a Garand...which my fading memory tells me that Oswald..when in the Marines...qualified......as "Sharpshooter".....why he choose the Carcano over a rifle he was much more familiar with has always bothered me....

 

[Panzerschwein]

Correct me if I miss remember...but on the add for the Carcano....was a Garand...which my fading memory tells me that Oswald..when in the Marines...qualified....as "Expert".....why he choose the Carcano over a rifle he was much more familiar with has always bothered me....

Might have had to do with cost and that the Carcano came with a telescopic sighting device (scope).

 

[ROAshooter]

"Might have had to do with cost and that the Carcano came with a telescopic sighting device (scope)."

at the range Oswald was shooting down into the car.(no more than 200 feet).......a scope really had no advantage over the Garands peep sight...and the rate of fire the Garand offered over the Carcano....would have killed everyone in the limo....

 

[tark]

Junk? I believe it was the White Laboratories that some years ago took a ratty looking Carcano, screwed on a 30-06 barrel and opened up the bolt face to accept a .473 rim. Then they started to shoot 06 ball ammo through it loaded into the chamber one at a time.

That didn't blow it up so they fed it some proof rounds (which it ate with no indigestion) and at that point they said the hell with it and gave up. They said that reconsideration was in order when evaluating the strength of the Carcano action.

They are not, by any means, Junk. It was the Italian soldiers, with poor leadership, that lost their wars, not the rifle. They were (are) rugged, reliable, accurate and perfectly serviceable rifles. They may not have been finished to pre- WW1 Ludwig und Loewe standards, but I have seen a lot of Mosins, Arisakas and late war Mausers that were worse looking. Hell, my Winchester M-1 (Oct 43) has some of the ugliest broach marks you ever saw all over the receiver. Doesn't affect the way the rifle shoots.

 

[PapaG]

Klein's sporting goods in Chicago was the source of the Carcano (might have missed that in the previous posts).
Hey, Red, I remember bailing hay for that .75/hr all day and playing a double header that night. Probably why I was 5' 10" and weighed 150.
Also bought a gun a week from Hunters Lodge in Alexandria, VA for an average of $15 each. Collection paid for a lot of tuition later, but I miss some of them.
I think that Oswald, a lefty, hot that right handed gun left handed, working the bolt with his right hand and easily took three shots in the five or so seconds. I also don't think that is all of the story.

 

[v35]

You may find this book interesting:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-third-bullet/id494046820

Or, you may not depending on just how knowledgeable you may be about firearms and ballistics. I'm no expert. Perhaps that's why I found it so enjoyable.

Anyway... FWIW, enjoy.

 

[Red Wind]

I think that Oswald, a lefty, hot that right handed gun left handed, working the bolt with his right hand and easily took three shots in the five or so seconds. I also don't think that is all of the story.

Since the 1st shot missed, that is when the clock starts at ZERO. LHO had 8.4 seconds to get off the next 2 shots. Not 5 or 6 seconds for 3 shots, but 8.4 for 2 shots.

That makes for a vast difference. The 2nd shot was at 3.9 seconds hitting both JFK and the Gov. Leaving a now more relaxed Oswald a full 4.5 seconds to get off the fatal head shot. The limousine was still slowing moving down the slight slope to the Freeway, making the fatal shot that much easier for the assassin.

Here is an analysis of the "missed shot

 

[Jim Watson]

We old timers remember when Richard Davis simulated the case at a Second Chance shoot.
A tower the right height, a mockup limousine occupied by mannequins at the right angle and speed, a Klein's Carcano.
The shooting which equaled the original was done by a left handed Marine.

 

[lysanderxiii]

"Might have had to do with cost and that the Carcano came with a telescopic sighting device (scope)."

at the range Oswald was shooting down into the car.(no more than 200 feet).......a scope really had no advantage over the Garands peep sight...and the rate of fire the Garand offered over the Carcano....would have killed everyone in the limo....

There is a $70 difference in price, about $550 in today's dollars....

And, the rifle was purchased 8 months before the assassination. Eight months before the trip to Dallas, I doubt Kennedy's staff knew the exact route they would be taking...

 

[Jim Watson]

Oswald's .38 was a S&W Victory model.

Do we know the serial number and if so does it have a "V" prefix?
There were a lot of WWII secondary standard Smiths sent over on Lend Lease and the Light Rifle bailout contract before they reached SN 999999 and started over with a Vee.

Heck, it might even have been a US secondary standard .38 Special sawn off in the same manner. I don't know. Who does?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

It has been reported that the whole concept of "live coverage" started later that day with studio TV cameras that weighed hundreds of pounds moved into the Dallas police headquarters.

Mike

 

[Deaf Smith]

As I have posted before, the Carcano is crude and rude compared to the standard military rifles used by the major powers at the time.

BUT, it defiantly could shoot well past 200 yards with a scope and do the deed.

Question is, was Oswald expert enough to see the difference in quality between what was offered surplus at the time. Keep in mind Oswald did have a rebored .38 S&W (cylinder opened to accept .38 special) to murder officer Tippet. That does not speak well of any expert opinion on Oswalds part.

Could the Carcano make the shots? Yes, but not very easily in the time frame he had.

Deaf

 

[HOWARD J]

I paid $11 for my Carcano with a cheap 4 X scope
With a good scope the rifle was very accurate

 

[Red Wind]

Do we know the serial number and if so does it have a "V" prefix?
There were a lot of WWII secondary standard Smiths sent over on Lend Lease and the Light Rifle bailout contract before they reached SN 999999 and started over with a Vee.

Heck, it might even have been a US secondary standard .38 Special sawn off in the same manner. I don't know. Who does?

Serial #V510210

See this S&W Forum thread.

 

[M-Cameron]

Oswald was a surprisingly good shot who made the luckiest 2 shots in history (the third missed). FBI snipers have replicated his feat with the same model gun and it can be done, but its not at all repeatable or easy.

What's more strange is not so much his weapon choice, but rather the fact that he didn't shoot when the motorcade was moving more directly towards him, which is an easier shot. Instead something made him wait until they turned away by about 45 degrees.

The more you read about the case, the more murky it becomes, but regardless of what I have read, the balance of probabilities lies that Oswald and Oswald alone did it.

With a magic bullet.

i imagine its not easy to pull the trigger and murder someone when you are looking them right in the face.

other than a sociopath, i think most people would opt to shoot someone in the back of the head......

 

[Leanwolf]

TUJ - " ... What's more strange is not so much his weapon choice, but rather the fact that he didn't shoot when the motorcade was moving more directly towards him, which is an easier shot. Instead something made him wait until they turned away by about 45 degrees."

Perhaps Oswald did not want to shoot through a heavy windshield which could very easily deflected the bullet.

L.W.

 

[Red Wind]

Perhaps Oswald did not want to shoot through a heavy windshield which could very easily deflected the bullet

Good point. I'm sure he remembered the wood cross lattice in General Walker's window, which deflected the bullet just enough to make it hit the wall behind the General, on the night of April 10,1963.

The fates are unfathomable.

 

[Captcurt]

The Carcano isn't junk. It may not be as well-designed or as powerful as other nations' rifles, but it was accurate and soft-shooting, both good characteristics for someone trying to shoot fast.

That said, could he have done better? Certainly. But it got the job done. When you're doing headshots, it's pretty much a guaranteed kill with anything larger than a .22LR.

My first centerfire rifle was a Carcano and it was junk. Gave a hard earned $20 for it in 1967. To this day it is the biggest POS that I have owned. Not sure that you could keep 5 shots on a barn door at 50 yards. I did manage to hit a deer at 13 yards. The bullet did not expand and merely punched a pencil sized hole.

I am more inclined to believe the James Files version. A Remington XP 100 is more likely to cause the type of wound on JFK than the 160 gr roundnose from the Carcano.

 

[Texreckshooter]

Maybe those other rifles were "out of stock."

Back in those days "truth in advertising laws" we're not what they are today.

 

[Paul7]

The cop Oswald killed was carrying a Colt Army Special .38.

 

[Gun Master]

Italian Carcano Rifle

I remember the Carcano was considered a cheap rifle with a stiff trigger pull, and not what one would consider a sniper's rifle.

Thus contributing to the conspiracy theories at the time, but now, let's see......
Mmmmm.......?