Old Dog
Member
In my library, courtesy of Dad (USNR 1945-1953).
Gun weirdness in media
- Thread starter halfmoonclip
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In one of the Bourne movies, Damon is holding a gun pointed at someone and depending on the camera angle, the gun changes back and forth between two different types. As I recall, from one camera angle it's a SIG, from the other it's a Glock. Very noticeable change--I'm surprised it made it through the editing process.
Old Dog
Member
I thought I was the only one who'd noticed that. I think that scene was shot on two different days, and the regular prop guy must've called out sick...
As Jim said, the continuity errors from scene to scene in the same movie can be highly irritating even if they don't involve guns. Top Gun Maverick a great example - in the same scene, Cruise looks freshly shaved, the next time on camera, same scene, he's sporting stubble. There was a fairly recent movie, I'm trying to recall, where the pistol changed from a Glock to a 1911 (or vice versa), the wife got ticked because I screamed at the TV.
Jim Watson
Member
The ‘Modesty Blaise‘ movie was full of intentional continuity errors because the parent comic strip was well known for them.
I had read about it and laughed, my friends hadn’t and were annoyed by them.
I had read about it and laughed, my friends hadn’t and were annoyed by them.
UncleEd
Member
Movies and TV series are not shot in sequence. Continuity is
a real problem at times.
For instance, take a TV show, all the interior shots are made for perhaps five
DIFFERENT episodes by DIFFERENT directors with the actors having to
switch moods and sometimes costumes multiple times.
Then, exterior on location shooting is conducted, again perhaps for five
different episodes. And exterior shooting might involve several days
with weather changing even though the scene depicts just a few
minutes of time.
James Drury commented that for "The Virginian" he might in one day
go from one set to another to another for three different episodes.
I'd like to see one of you gun experts try to keep things straight
while being prop master for multiple shootings on different
days and different locations. And oh yeah, a month after
primary filming you are called back for fill-in or changing of
scenes ordered by director, producers or studio heads.
Ever notice that in the credits nowadays even one film
might list 500 persons involved in the production and all
their various duties have to mesh into one cohesive,
seamless product.
And all this planning, shooting time, location scheduling
has to fit into a budget with even tiny delays costing multi thousands
of dollars. YOU want a scene reshot because some of the
rubber rifles can be seen bending, so be it. Reschedule the
scene again, maybe for another day, and let the studio
know YOU ARE spending $3 million more for a 30 second scene.
a real problem at times.
For instance, take a TV show, all the interior shots are made for perhaps five
DIFFERENT episodes by DIFFERENT directors with the actors having to
switch moods and sometimes costumes multiple times.
Then, exterior on location shooting is conducted, again perhaps for five
different episodes. And exterior shooting might involve several days
with weather changing even though the scene depicts just a few
minutes of time.
James Drury commented that for "The Virginian" he might in one day
go from one set to another to another for three different episodes.
I'd like to see one of you gun experts try to keep things straight
while being prop master for multiple shootings on different
days and different locations. And oh yeah, a month after
primary filming you are called back for fill-in or changing of
scenes ordered by director, producers or studio heads.
Ever notice that in the credits nowadays even one film
might list 500 persons involved in the production and all
their various duties have to mesh into one cohesive,
seamless product.
And all this planning, shooting time, location scheduling
has to fit into a budget with even tiny delays costing multi thousands
of dollars. YOU want a scene reshot because some of the
rubber rifles can be seen bending, so be it. Reschedule the
scene again, maybe for another day, and let the studio
know YOU ARE spending $3 million more for a 30 second scene.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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- 1,123
Depended on the studio, the level of production-A movie, B-movie, etc. In the 1948 Columbia serial Superman Noel Neill as Lois Lane wears the same outfit in all chapters, in the 1950s Adventures of Superman they had a lot of tight scheduling, thus all scenes set in Perry White's office would be shot in one sequence, the actors said they had to be careful to use the correct dialogue for the story that scene was shot for.
The 1958 epic Solomon and Sheba had to be recast and re-shot when star Tyrone Power died of a heart attack after 75% of his scenes had been filmed. Yul Brinner was brought in to play Solomon and all those scenes were redone.
Pearl Harbor (2001) is set in 1941-and nobody smokes.
It isn't just Hollyweird. On another board a member posted a picture of his father serving in the Canadian Army in WWI holding one of those rare left handed Rosses.
I saw an episode of Biography about Omar Bradley, for the fighting in Normandy they used pictures from the Russian Front, you could tell by the thatched peasants' cottages, a German tank goes by-with the number on the turret reversed.
The 1958 epic Solomon and Sheba had to be recast and re-shot when star Tyrone Power died of a heart attack after 75% of his scenes had been filmed. Yul Brinner was brought in to play Solomon and all those scenes were redone.
Pearl Harbor (2001) is set in 1941-and nobody smokes.
It isn't just Hollyweird. On another board a member posted a picture of his father serving in the Canadian Army in WWI holding one of those rare left handed Rosses.
I saw an episode of Biography about Omar Bradley, for the fighting in Normandy they used pictures from the Russian Front, you could tell by the thatched peasants' cottages, a German tank goes by-with the number on the turret reversed.
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CapnMac
Member
I always though Dana Elcar more resembled Pappy in appearance.
I recall an actor discussing one western movie he'd been hired to act in. He said the script and direction were so bad that he and the other main character didn't want it released.
In mid-scene, they'd swap their gunbelts around from regular to cross-draw, switch hats do other crazy things to screw up the movie.
They got paid, but the thing was never released.
In The Virginian, when a certain piece of equipment that James Drury knew was needed for a scene wasn't brought to the set, he'd walk off and go home. "They couldn't shoot the show without me!" he said.
I always loved the steel-reinforced muzzle-forward holsters he and Doug McClure wore. They were almost certainly made by Arvo Ojala, Andy Anderson or Alfonso Pineda.
View attachment 1703709260133.webp
In mid-scene, they'd swap their gunbelts around from regular to cross-draw, switch hats do other crazy things to screw up the movie.
They got paid, but the thing was never released.
In The Virginian, when a certain piece of equipment that James Drury knew was needed for a scene wasn't brought to the set, he'd walk off and go home. "They couldn't shoot the show without me!" he said.
I always loved the steel-reinforced muzzle-forward holsters he and Doug McClure wore. They were almost certainly made by Arvo Ojala, Andy Anderson or Alfonso Pineda.
View attachment 1703709260133.webp
UncleEd
Member
Drury in "Virginian" also carried a customized Colt SAA. He opted
to have a larger 1860 Army grip frame fitted to the 1873 model,
replacing the smaller Navy grip frame which was standard. Note
how much longer the handle is on his gun.
to have a larger 1860 Army grip frame fitted to the 1873 model,
replacing the smaller Navy grip frame which was standard. Note
how much longer the handle is on his gun.
The Night Rider
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JFrame
Member
I always loved the 10-12 rounds Josh Randall (Steve McQueen) got off with his Mare's Leg in the course of a running gunfight... And the show ("Wanted Dead or Alive") made at least one reference to Josh purchasing .45-70 cartridges for it at a general store (the rounds that were on his belt loop, although his prop gun was chambered in .44-40). 
I always wanted that Mare's Leg with a 12 round capacity of .45-70...
I always wanted that Mare's Leg with a 12 round capacity of .45-70...
When I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB near Tucson in the early/mid '70s, I made friends with the propmaster at Old Tucson where a lot of westerns were made.
They ran regular stunt shows for tourists that involved the prop guns being tossed around and dropped off roofs. The regular Colt-type replica guns took a beating and were constantly being repaired and rebuilt.
They replaced them with Ruger Super Blackhawks with the barrels cut to 4 3/4". They removed the rear sights and didn't bother to re-install the front sights. The Rugers held up very well.
They also had problems with the grips breaking, so they had aluminum grips cast and anodized to look like walnut.
There was a lot of "fanning" in those shows, but since the guns didn't have sights and they were shooting blanks, it didn't really matter.
They ran regular stunt shows for tourists that involved the prop guns being tossed around and dropped off roofs. The regular Colt-type replica guns took a beating and were constantly being repaired and rebuilt.
They replaced them with Ruger Super Blackhawks with the barrels cut to 4 3/4". They removed the rear sights and didn't bother to re-install the front sights. The Rugers held up very well.
They also had problems with the grips breaking, so they had aluminum grips cast and anodized to look like walnut.
There was a lot of "fanning" in those shows, but since the guns didn't have sights and they were shooting blanks, it didn't really matter.
hey smepl this
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in Sopranos, Jackie Jr was killed by this impressive hand cannon. I don’t even know what this is, but it’s amazing.
UncleEd
Member
Sometimes a firearm is chosen strictly for its visual effect.
In a making-of feature about an action movie, the armorers
met with the producers/director to choose firearms. A
stainless steel Desert Eagle was chosen. The armorers
advised that the character hardly would pick such a
cumbersome gun.
One of the producers replied, "But it'll look good on the
screen."
And think of all the rear windows of cars are shattered
by gunfire in movies. Almost never see a bullets hit
the inside of the car let alone the inside of the front
windshield.
And how many times have you seen blood splatter
from the back of a head but never see a bullet hole
in the wall or car glass behind the victim? I read
a lot of that blood is CGI added to the scene in
editing.
All movies are make believe, even those depicting
a so-called true story.
In a making-of feature about an action movie, the armorers
met with the producers/director to choose firearms. A
stainless steel Desert Eagle was chosen. The armorers
advised that the character hardly would pick such a
cumbersome gun.
One of the producers replied, "But it'll look good on the
screen."
And think of all the rear windows of cars are shattered
by gunfire in movies. Almost never see a bullets hit
the inside of the car let alone the inside of the front
windshield.
And how many times have you seen blood splatter
from the back of a head but never see a bullet hole
in the wall or car glass behind the victim? I read
a lot of that blood is CGI added to the scene in
editing.
All movies are make believe, even those depicting
a so-called true story.
TTv2
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- Mar 31, 2016
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- 4,994
The two that I can think of off the top of my head where gun things looked wrong was one in The Sopranos big, fat Vito whacks Jackie Jr in Season 2 and the gun is obviously a fake made to look like a Glock and I think the only moving part is the trigger. The other is in the movie Zardoz where Sean Connery picks up a Webley-Fosbery, breaks the fourth wall by pointing it at the camera, and the chambers are clearly empty, then a shot is heard and the picture goes to black.
There's also my pet peeve where guns never have recoil. I noticed this a lot in the Walking Dead series, but the most appaling was in a movie with Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson called "Faster" where his primary arm is the Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
The environment damage is pretty good and likely spot on, but while The Rock may as well be one giant muscle, there's no amount of strength that would be able to mitigate recoil of .454 Casull.
There's also my pet peeve where guns never have recoil. I noticed this a lot in the Walking Dead series, but the most appaling was in a movie with Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson called "Faster" where his primary arm is the Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull.
The environment damage is pretty good and likely spot on, but while The Rock may as well be one giant muscle, there's no amount of strength that would be able to mitigate recoil of .454 Casull.
JN01
Member
A lot of the old movies about the Colonial era or Revolution used trapdoor Springfields mocked up to look like flintlocks.
Old Dog
Member
Looks like it was carved out of a block of the black rubber used to make hockey pucks... the "barrel" is just a protuberance from the muzzle, no frame, no slide --- and no sights! With UHD big screens, a lot of the firearms are clearly props and some, like this one, don't even resemble a real gun.
Worst thing I ever saw was a suicide, guy sat in his bathtub and put a 1911 in his mouth -- most movies don't even begin to capture what really happens, but I'm thinking for most viewers, that's probably a good thing; I will never complain a movie is not gory enough (although I do love a good action flick).
Was privileged to watch a premiere of Saving Private Ryan with an audience of all veterans and active military, including several WWII vets -- the depiction of the landing in Normandy was overwhelming for some of those guys.
In the original version of Band of Brothers, the episode with the liberating of the camp, one of the Easy Company soldiers points a 1911 at someone -- not the itty-bitty sight nubs on the old pistols, no, rather modern higher-profile 3-dot sights. I don't know if this was ever edited in later releases,
Like others have noted, period pieces in which firearms are used that weren't made until years later is rather annoying. I always crack up when I see a show, ostensibly set in the '40s into the early '60s where some plainclothes detective is wearing a horizontal shoulder holster. AFAIK, John Bianchi came out with the first horizontal rig in the late '60s, but it didn't become popular until Rick Gallagher started making his Jackass Rig in the early '80s (thank you Sonny Crockett).
UncleEd
Member
Old Dog mentions modern sights on WWII 1911s.
Want to really be picky, watch close ups in Westerns whether
the cylinder pin is held by a screw in the front of the frame
or a spring loaded horizontal design. Although the "modern"
horizontal design was used on other Colt revolvers, it was
not on the Single Action Army until 1896.
Some believe that the new design on the SAA designated
OK use of smokeless powder; not so. It was a specs change
once Colt no longer was committed to an Army contract
requiring parts replacements.
So, is the Western pre-1896 or post 1896 (forget that John
Wayne used the SAA 1873 model in even pre-Civil War depictions
or his trusty 1892 Winchester was always present no matter the
year depicted.).
Want to really be picky, watch close ups in Westerns whether
the cylinder pin is held by a screw in the front of the frame
or a spring loaded horizontal design. Although the "modern"
horizontal design was used on other Colt revolvers, it was
not on the Single Action Army until 1896.
Some believe that the new design on the SAA designated
OK use of smokeless powder; not so. It was a specs change
once Colt no longer was committed to an Army contract
requiring parts replacements.
So, is the Western pre-1896 or post 1896 (forget that John
Wayne used the SAA 1873 model in even pre-Civil War depictions
or his trusty 1892 Winchester was always present no matter the
year depicted.).
Old Dog
Member
Yeah, but think of how many Winchester lever-action rifles John Wayne sold...
The series Bonanza was really bad on almost all its episodes as far as that goes too, with 1873s in episodes that were supposed to be from 1859 through the war, Hoss and Little Joe loading up cartridges instead of depicting old cap and ball Colt's ... and don't forget about Ben's 1875 Remington during the Civil War episodes, too. The 1892 showing up in episodes from the supposed 1860s into the 1880s... Not just the firearms: All those clean-shaven actors in every episode, oh, and the modern pants with belt loops, too.
CBS' (and later Paramount +) network show SEAL Team production crew is actually chock full of staffers who are former NSW or SF, making sure the firearms, gear and tactics are realistic, so that show does a pretty good job; CBS' SWAT has some good technical advisors as well, but some of the scripts and story lines are just way too woke for my taste.
The series Bonanza was really bad on almost all its episodes as far as that goes too, with 1873s in episodes that were supposed to be from 1859 through the war, Hoss and Little Joe loading up cartridges instead of depicting old cap and ball Colt's ... and don't forget about Ben's 1875 Remington during the Civil War episodes, too. The 1892 showing up in episodes from the supposed 1860s into the 1880s... Not just the firearms: All those clean-shaven actors in every episode, oh, and the modern pants with belt loops, too.
CBS' (and later Paramount +) network show SEAL Team production crew is actually chock full of staffers who are former NSW or SF, making sure the firearms, gear and tactics are realistic, so that show does a pretty good job; CBS' SWAT has some good technical advisors as well, but some of the scripts and story lines are just way too woke for my taste.
UncleEd
Member
Well, Old Dog, when it comes to belt loops on pants,
that's been an iffy question for a long time, I think.
But probably not much before 1900.
And when it comes to saddles, good Lord that's a
whole couple books about when and what. Saddles
in some lately made Westerns are certainly more
period correct than from the post WWII heyday of
John Wayne Westerns.
By the 1930s, most clothing in movie Westerns was
strictly off-the-rack stuff of then current manufacture.
Same goes for the hats and boots.
The showmanship of rodeos after 1900 had a big
influence in the look of a "genuine cowboy."
Tom Selleck was asked about the big brimmed hats
he wore while usually depicting Montana cowboys.
He said he knew the hats then were much, much
smaller but he looked goofy in them.
that's been an iffy question for a long time, I think.
But probably not much before 1900.
And when it comes to saddles, good Lord that's a
whole couple books about when and what. Saddles
in some lately made Westerns are certainly more
period correct than from the post WWII heyday of
John Wayne Westerns.
By the 1930s, most clothing in movie Westerns was
strictly off-the-rack stuff of then current manufacture.
Same goes for the hats and boots.
The showmanship of rodeos after 1900 had a big
influence in the look of a "genuine cowboy."
Tom Selleck was asked about the big brimmed hats
he wore while usually depicting Montana cowboys.
He said he knew the hats then were much, much
smaller but he looked goofy in them.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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In The Alamo (1960) Richard Widmark as Jim Bowie carries a Nock Volley Gun. Looks great on screen, in reality, didn't work, firing all 7 barrels, like trying to fire 7 Brown Besses at once.
In The Red Badge of Courage (1951) the uniforms and insignia are from the Indian Wars,
In Star Wars the Storm Troopers are carrying Lee-Enfields, H&Ks, etc.
In The Red Badge of Courage (1951) the uniforms and insignia are from the Indian Wars,
In Star Wars the Storm Troopers are carrying Lee-Enfields, H&Ks, etc.
CapnMac
Member
No lie. The invention of the stirrup was much later than that of the saddle. And the depiction of saddles by people who rode bareback by choice, annoys as well.
Had a related argument with a bro over the movie 55 Days at Peking (which is a pretty tight movie). His assertion was that it's an accurate depiction of 30-40Krag rifles (which are what's modeled in the 1963 movie). The problem being that the China Marines did not replace their 6mm Lee rifles until about 1902 or 1903, well after the Siege of the Boxers. Now, in The Wind and Lion, the US Marines are generally shown with correct Krag rifles.
Bill_in_TR
Member
It is amazing how many details some of you catch in these movies. I suppose if I paid any attention to that sort of stuff I might catch more than I do. I can understand that some folks enjoy actually looking for those things. But why it would irritate or aggravate some people gets me scratching my head. Other than strict documentaries movies are fiction. I watch them purely for mindless entertainment. Even movies "based on" some true story have been tweaked for entertainment purposes. I personally could care less about these kind of details.
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