Gunpowder cartridges in my smokeless guns or a dedicated gun?

[westernrover]

I've reloaded smokeless for some time. I'm contemplating loading some cartridges with gunpowder (black powder). Should I plan to fire these in my 357 New Vaquero, or should I think about getting another gun for gunpowder?
My Vaquero has a beautiful highly polished blue finish and all my guns I keep very clean. Will I regret firing gunpowder in it?

I'm not afraid to strip revolvers, though it isn't an appealing task for every time I fire it. I've seen video of people cleaning BPCR's with water and Ballistol without stripping them (just removing the cylinder).

I wonder if I wouldn't rather have another gun for gunpowder, maybe even a stainless-steel Vaquero. Another option I'm considering is loading brass shotshells with gunpowder for my single-shot Henry 20 ga. I think that would keep most of the fouling in the smooth bore that would be pretty easy to clean.

 

[hawg]

If you clean it you won't regret shooting it. You don't have to strip it completely down however you do have to submerge it in soapy water for a few minutes. I remove the cylinder and grips on my Uberti/Cimmaron. I drop it in a sink full of hot soapy water. I swish the action around good and set aside to drain while I clean the cylinder. After the bore is clean I spray the insides out thoroughly with WD-40 and then again with Rem Oil. Petroleum based lubes are ok inside the action because it doesn't get the heat of combustion it takes to make the fouling hard.

 

[woodnbow]

Pump the action full of Mobil 1 synthetic grease before you shoot the bp loads and it will not be necessary to strip the pistol after every outing. Just clean the bore and chambers as per usual.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

On your shotgun plastic shells will work as good or better than brass ones. I shoot an old Damascus Parker using plastic shells with no noticeable fouling in the breech area. It gets cleaned after every session of hunting.

 

[Bibbyman]

I just wash them out in the kitchen sink. Just make sure the wife doesn't catch me.

 

[hawg]

On your shotgun plastic shells will work as good or better than brass ones. I shoot an old Damascus Parker using plastic shells with no noticeable fouling in the breech area. It gets cleaned after every session of hunting.

I can only get one or two reloads out of plastic shells.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Well the .38 S&W Special was originally a black powder cartridge so I guess the first issue M&P's were OK with that.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I can only get one or two reloads out of plastic shells.

Not sure what you're doing on your reloads...I have got 5 or 6 out of my plastic hulls.I use those pink Federals for my black powder loads.

 

[hawg]

Not sure what you're doing on your reloads...I have got 5 or 6 out of my plastic hulls.I use those pink Federals for my black powder loads.

I use 80 grains of 2F in Winchester AA and Federal 12 gauge shells. One reload will leave heavy rivulets of plastic inside and the plastic at the base will be obviously thinned. If I get another reload they will be extremely thinned with pinholes.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Interesting, my loads are 65 grains of 3 f or Pyrodex under 1 1/8 shot. No issues like you describe and definitely not wimpy loads.

 

[Bibbyman]

I make shotgun black powder loads with roll crimp using AA or STS hulls. Use once and pitch.

 

[hawg]

I roll crimp mine too.

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

I would suggest getting a separate revolver for black powder if you can swing it; blued or stainless; both have worked for me in the past. The prep/lube and clean up agents are different for BP as opposed to smokeless, at least that was the way it was for me when I did cowboy action shooting with both smokeless and black powder.

 

[J-Bar]

Don't shoot blackpowder or BP substitutes unless you clean your guns thoroughly. I have found that those of us who really enjoy shooting the old stuff actually enjoy cleaning guns. Go figure.

Sure you can lube the guns and reduce the chances of corrosion from fouling. But as time between cleanings increases, so does the risk of damage to the gun. If you consider cleaning an onerous chore, do your firearm ( and it's subsequent future owners) a favor and stick with smokeless loads.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Well the .38 S&W Special was originally a black powder cartridge so I guess the first issue M&P's were OK with that.

Some transitional era revolvers have unique features that were eliminated from later production once smokeless ammo took a firm hold. My ~1901 S&W .32 WCF Model 1899 Hand Ejector and my ~1908 Colt .38 WCF New Service both have fouling cups cut in the underside of the top strap above the cylinder gap.

 

[44 Dave]

I shoot both in my Uberti Cattleman, they are easy to clean not as many small springs and pieces as in a Ruger.

 

[mm93]

I shoot some BP in my old 1800's rifles and many of them are fairly minty condition, or excellent condition. If you clean your guns properly, and treat them well during shooting, and after cleaning, they should be great.
You should be aware that BP causes fouling, so unlike the westerns you're not going to shoot a bunch of rounds without having to stop at some point to clean the fouling up so you can keep shooting. The fouling on the face of the cylinder will eventually cause it to drag fouling on the forcing cone of the barrel, and cocking the hammer to turn the cylinder will be sluggish, and even lockup at some point. So be prepared for that and stop to clean it if you keep shooting. And this happens fairly quickly too!

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

When I set up an open top revolver I set the barrel/cylinder gap to .002 to .004 max, this really helps with the fouling build up as most of it goes down the barrel. Good lube over the ball also cuts down on fouling and keeps it soft. Lately I've been using Uglies lube pills, they are real convenient and work well. The thing I don't like is chambers that cut a lead ring off the ball, I chamfer the chamber mouths to compress the ball rather than cut it. Have had a revolver or 2 get jammed up due to the stupid lead ring getting caught at the forcing cone.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The few times I've shot my EL Patron with black powder, I just cleaned as I normally would clean one of my cap-N-ball revolvers. Just used patches and Windex. Of course it was abnormally more dirty than smokeless, but cleaning it was the same. Patches, a rag, and a toothbrush. No soap and water.

Consider that with a cartridge gun, you don't have that back-blast coming out the cones and going down into the action via the hammer cut. Most of the fouling will be in the barrel-cylinder gap area. The bore will get pretty crusty with most bullets that don't carry a lot of lube.

By the way, black powder was called, and was known as "gun powder" for centuries. "Black Powder" is a new thang. I like that you call it "gun powder". We should all do that. (along with NOT calling a Remington 1863 New Model Army an "1858"!!!!)

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have found that those of us who really enjoy shooting the old stuff actually enjoy cleaning guns. Go figure.

Strange but true. I certainly don't mind.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Another option I'm considering is loading brass shotshells with gunpowder for my single-shot Henry 20 ga. I think that would keep most of the fouling in the smooth bore that would be pretty easy to clean.

Yes in single shot shotguns, the bore is very easy to clean after shooting. In most cartridge rifles, same thing, all fouling is confined to the bore. I shoot only gunpowder in my Marlin 1895, (80 grains under a 400 grain bullet) so that there's no smokeless ammo around to find it's way into either of my Trapdoor Springfields.

In the past I have fired many .30WCF loads in one of my 1894 Winchesters, same deal, no fouling in the action. Also have three old 12 gauge shotguns that I only shoot gunpowder in. Same deal. It's them pesky revolvers that spew fouling in ten different directions.

 

[.38 Special]

Just about any revolver will do fine for BP. Most of my single actions have been used with it. Thorough cleaning prevents any problems.

Having said that, I did actually buy a stainless Vaquero for the purpose. For cleaning, I remove the grips and the cylinder and then hang the gun and cylinder in a pot of near-boiling water/Ballistol for a few minutes, then swish everything around a bit before setting it out to dry on paper towels. If I'm in a hurry, that's actually the extent of the cleaning, though I do prefer to push patches through chambers and bore for insurance. The same method does work on blued guns, but flash rust can be an issue, and the dark finish can hide fouling. The stainless gun obviates both troubles, and I'm entirely satisfied with it.

 

[hawg]

(along with NOT calling a Remington 1863 New Model Army an "1858"!!!!)

1858,1858,1858,

 

[Ugly Sauce]

1858,1858,1858,

Why I ottah!!!! When's the next bus to Mississippi????

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Having said that, I did actually buy a stainless Vaquero for the purpose.

I got my EL Patron in stainless partly for that, and if I got into a bad situation in the wilderness I could neglect the cleaning of my sidearm for a bit longer than a blued pistol.