Guns and the Noise They Produce

[HammsBeer]

machIVshooter is spot on. If you shoot a pistol in a wide open field with earplugs, it sounds like a small pop. Shoot the same gun with earplugs in an indoor shooting range with concrete floor and ceiling and dividers between each lane, the noise becomes very acute and the plugs barely make the sound level tolerable. The sound energy is being reflected back at the shooter.

Another thing to consider is the distance from the noise source. As sound travels away from the source, the intensity drops because the energy in the sound wave dissipates in all directions. Think of throwing a rock in a pond and the waves from the splash gradually diminish as they fan out. Same reason you can't carry on a quiet conversation with someone 100 yards away. If sound didn't dissipate with distance, the world would be extremely loud, as a jack hammer in Chicago would be interrupting a picnic in St Louis.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Completely wrong. Nobody but NOBODY picnics in St. Louis in August.

 

[Zach S]

After reading this thread, I cant help but wonder about the NRR18 earplugs mentioned in the first post. In my adult life, which consisted of loud jobs and company supplied ear protection, I have never seen plugs rated so low. I think NRR28 is the lowest I've seen with 30 being the norm. The ones I prefer ar NRR33. E.A.R Classic Superfit 33s, uncomfortable, but effective. Years ago when I looked at Surefires, they were 24.

Doubling up makes a bigger difference than you would lead us to think. I saw someone mention they cant reliably hear their shot timer, I couldn't hear mine at all if on the bench or my belt. If I dont have someone manning the timer for me, I have to clip it to my shirt collar on my left trap. Only when doubled up, which isnt often. Usually just when there is a magnum or .357SIG in the next lane.

With muffs, I cut the NRR in half due to the lack of a proper seal, which cant be obtained unless you shoot without glasses, and have no hair. IMO, muffs are asprin when you need oxycodon - they'll take the edge off, but thats about it.

 

[pendennis]

I got to talk to one of NIOSH's engineers a couple of years ago, and spent quite a bit of time asking him some very basic questions, and picked up a lot of good information.

One of the things you also have to consider, is the shock wave which travels through the stock of a rifle or shotgun. Most folks think that it's just the noise. A rifle or shotgun stock besides transmitting a shock wave, also displaces all hearing muffs, no matter what the quality (dependent on whether you shoot right- or left-handed). And, if you have a beard, it can also break the seal. The other problem is shooting glasses. They all break the seal, so you can never be assured that you're getting anywhere near the protection that muffs offer.

I've worn a combination of custom molded ear plugs, and very high quality electronic muffs (Peltor Tactical Pro and Pro Ears Gold Magnum) for years, but I'm headed to the ENT on Thursday for tests. I know I have some hearing loss, and it's especially noticeable in my right ear (right-hand shooter).

I just wanted to update this thread with the results of my visit to an ENT on Thursday, 8/7/14:

The intake medical assistant asked the usual questions relating to general medical health, etc. She also wanted to know in which ear I believed the hearing loss was worst. She made a lot of notes, and then sent me for a hearing test with the doctor's audiologist. She conductive a complete hearing exam, and then discussed her findings with me. My hearing is exactly the same in both ears, and my hearing loss has been determined to be completely age-related. That's the bad news.

I next saw the ENT. He also discussed in detail my hearing test results. He also advised me that my loss was completely aged related. The audiology report was completely within those norms. He advised that I could gain some benefit from hearing aids, and he provided a referral which I can take anywhere, should I decide to get hearing aids. With the amount of loss I have, I've opted to wait for a year, having another hearing test, so a baseline can be developed.

The doctor is a shooter. His chosen shooting sports are clays and skeet. He's also a handgun shooter. (We did spend some time discussing the pros and cons of Glocks v. S&W M&P, and he was surprised about the Colt Super .38 which I carry. )

I asked him about the possibility of hearing loss from using a shotgun and rifle, through the stock. He advised that while it is a possibility, there is far more concern by not wearing appropriate hearing protection. He understands the lack of complete protection because of hearing muff displacement. So my initial fear about more hearing loss in my right ear was put to rest.

I brought my custom molded ear plugs and my electronic ear muffs (Walker Pro Ears Gold Magnum), and he advised me to keep wearing both. That this combination was as good as you could get. He was impressed with the quality of the custom plugs, and I gave him the audiologist's card, in case he wanted some like it. He also mentioned that two years was about the maximum before having new plugs molded.

Just from my experience, do not wait to have your hearing checked. The ENT and the audiologist really make a good team.

 

[denton]

I think that some of the math has us wrapped around the axle.

For attenuators in general:

*10 dB is a reduction in power of 10X. 20 dB is a reduction in power of 20X. 30 dB is a reduction in power of 1000X. 3 dB is very close to 2X.

*If you stack attenuators, the dBs add. Two 10 dB attenuators = 1 20 dB attenuator.

*A 27 dB attenuator is half as effective as a 30 dB attenuator. A 15 dB attenuator 1/32 as effective as a 30 dB attenuator.

*To your ear, a change of 3 dB is just noticeable.

Yes, different conditions will get you different results with the same earmuffs. If your muffs are giving you a real 30 dB, sound power level is reduced by 1000X, and a 155 dB rifle report is reduced to 125 dB.

I have a pair of 34 dB rated muffs. Heaven only knows exactly how much attenuation they produce when on my ears. But they are at the point where additional reduction will produce little or no additional protection. Sound levels at my ears are reduced to the point that bone conduction and entry through the eustachian tubes is greater than what gets through the ear canal.

I use my shooting muffs when I run my power tools or my snow blower. I accidentally discovered that when I open my mouth, sound levels go up.

When you reach that point, more protection of the ears is futile.

 

[lxd55]

You folks can argue the scales etc.,,, all day long.
But only Tirod gave a very good solution, suppressors.
That way it helps everyone, mostly on a range and for new young shooters.
You would still need "ears" but if you had them rated for 30dbs then the issue is mute.
Safety for all.

Lateck,

yep I got the money to go get a 900.00 silencer right now.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

All I know for sure is that my .44 mag, when shot indoors, produces pain in my ears when using either muffs or plugs. When using both, it does not, and is fairly pleasureable to shoot indoors, noisewise. So I've been doubling up for everything, ever since I bought it in the 80s. (33NRR plugs, 29NRR muffs)

 

[CapnMac]

I remember reading, years ago, that "impulse" from sounds was an important factor. And one not much addressed by OSHA, which is more concerned with long-term, continuous, volume exposure.

Impulse takes into account not only the blast at the muzzle, but also the sound of trans-sonic bullets. That long-ago article cited that the .44mag has a louder muzzle blast, but the .223 had a greater impulse, and could therefore do more damage.

Now, for my 2¢, I've always doubled up with rifles--which is handy in case one uh-ohs by popping a muff clear to talk to your spotter or bench companion, only to have the next person down light off a 7mag through that extra-loud BOSS compensator (owww, but not EEE-owww; eeeeeeeegeeeeeeeegeeeeeeegeeeeeeg . . . )

 

[1SOW]

An interesting post.

The "constant" noise/sound level generated by a jet aircraft engine can be damaging with short exposure time.
The "frequency" of the sound generated matters. Some very loud aircraft are less damaging than some that are at a much higher frequency due to the design of the aircraft and turbines that generate the sound.

With most, Heavy muffs provide adequate protection. With the "whiners", double ear protection is required to be on the flight line.

Deflection matters a lot. Proximity to the sound's "focus" matters a lot. Directly behind a jet engine is loudest. Directly in front of the engine is almost as bad on some.

In the cockpit, with the canopy closed, Ear protection may not even be needed due to deflection and the direction the sound is focussed.

Sitting in Delta padssenger jet, you don't need ear protection even though you may be within 20 feet of an engine at 100% RPM. The OSHA sound level reading would be off the scale and the math would say no hearing protection is adequate.

With pistol or rifle some of these examples are relevant to the decibels of sound you're being exposed to. It's not just a single formula you can quantify so easily, unless you are positioned at the same place the readings were taken, likely at the focal point of the sound.

 

[gspn]

I was told there would be no math. I'm going to have to come back and re-read these posts after a few cups of coffee.

 

[george burns]

Just think what will happen to your ears if you hav eto shoot an intruder indoors with just about any firearm.
Here is a Tip, put the finger of the free hand in the one ear, and raise your shoulder up to your shooting hands ear, and bend head down like on a cheek weld. You can easily still make the shot and avoid going deaf in an emergency, it's good to practice.
If you practice it a few hundred times it becomes natural, also tell your family members if this ever happens and they are in the house, to cover their ears until you hopefully dispatch the bad guy, or scare them off, unless thay are armed and have time to stick anything including "chewing Gum" in theur ear. Gum makes the best plug, like a custom fit ear pug.
As do Cigarette filters, and empty and loaded bullets.
Just pop two rounds out and stick them in your ears.

 

[slickracer]

Well said, I do the same.

 

[hso]

And one not much addressed by OSHA,

Incorrect. OSHA addresses impulse noise, but small arms fire has been researched and the addressed by the military extensively.

 

[denton]

Just as a point of reference, my smart phone has an app to measure sound levels. In most planes, the sound of the engines is right around 85 dB.

It's hard to enjoy a movie on your smart phone on a plane. But pop a pair of shooting muffs over your ear buds, and all is well.

 

[Zach S]

Just think what will happen to your ears if you hav eto shoot an intruder indoors with just about any firearm.

My primary concern would be the safety of my loved ones and myself...

If the need arises, I'm willing to trade a little hearing for that.