Guns at political conventions

[vito]

As anti-Republican demonstrations get more violent (and I believe that even if Trump is NOT the Republican nominee, leftist agitators will cause problems at Republican rallies and events during the general election cycle) I think it is a foregone conclusion that unless the authorities vigorously maintain law and order, candidates will have to seek security support from their followers. I am not encouraging violence, but being able to respond to violent attacks is perfectly moral and legal and constitutes self defense.

I doubt that the Secret Service has the resources to provide general event security. So the real burden falls on local police agencies, and based upon recent events in California, their authorities may not be inclined to be aggressive against even the violent protesters. I know that "volunteer" security forces bring up mental images of Hitler's brown shirts, but the alternative of having anti-Republican mobs of anarchists and radicals waving Mexican flags and trying to prevent legal political discourse is a much worse alternative.

 

[J-Bar]

"but the alternative of having anti-Republican mobs of anarchists and radicals waving Mexican flags and trying to prevent legal political discourse is a much worse alternative"

It kinda makes his point though, doesn't it?

To stay on topic, As much as I support concealed carry, I'm not sure carrying at such a convention is a good idea.

 

[Aikibiker]

Yeah, but you have to be able to walk to the convention without getting beaten to death to participate in the democracy happening therein.

Maybe make it mandatory for anyplace that bans CCW to provide safe storage for people's guns and security for disarmed attendees while they are there?

 

[coloradokevin]

But I was at the Wyoming Republican State Convention, where Ted Cruz spoke, and there were many people open carrying handguns. A father and daughter were carrying. Even a local talk radio host was carrying.

So what's going on?

The Wyoming state convention is a LOT different from the RNC (which will take place in Cleveland this year). Typically, Secret Service protection for a candidate begins at the time of their nomination by the party… since we're still in primary season, that probably hasn't started yet.

I can't tell you if there are exceptions to that rule or not, but in the protective details we've had for candidates in my neck of the woods in the past, that's generally been the case (and we've had the DNC here, along with a TON of candidate/presidential visits in the past ten years).

 

[Flechette]

The RNC is a private event, not open to the general public (and the guy who started the petition is an internet troll).

But there is more to consider here; There are several places in the United States that firearms are prohibited, and for reasons that have nothing to do with gun-free zones, or anyone's Second Amendment rights.

Places such as courthouses, where the law is being adjudicated, as well as governmental buildings, and yes, political conventions, where We the People participate in democracy, either directly or via representatives, are places where even the perceived threat of violence is removed to allow all who enter to be heard without intimidation. Anything less would corrupt the system, queering the results, putting us on the same plane third world dictatorships and banana republics.

True, guns can be prohibited in court houses.

However, the way I was taught legal theory was that if the government disarms you then it must assume the responsibility to protect you.

It has been decided many, many times that a citizen cannot sue the police for failing to protect them. That is not the police's responsibility (despite the "To Serve and Protect" slogans on the side of their cars). The police's only responsibility is to enforce the law.

That said, if you are in a court room and get assaulted then you can sue the government because it is the bailiff's responsibility to protect you.

I have long thought that if I were a billionaire I would finance a law suit against the government on behalf of a person injured in a "gun-free zone" using this argument.

 

[Flechette]

Yeah, but you have to be able to walk to the convention without getting beaten to death to participate in the democracy happening therein.

Maybe make it mandatory for anyplace that bans CCW to provide safe storage for people's guns and security for disarmed attendees while they are there?

That's just it. How can we have a political system that respects our individual rights when participating in that system necessitates banning your right?

People should be allowed to defend themselves lest they not participate. Convincing people not to participate is the first step towards tyranny.

 

[GRIZ22]

Secret Service protection is either requested by the candidate or offered by the the Secretary of DHS. If offered by Secretary of DHS it can be declined. Clinton has hers as a former president's wife. All the other candidates have had SS details since Nov/Dec of last year. Sanders got his in January I believe. Don't know about Kasich as he was using his Ohio Highway Patrol detail he gets as governor.

I talked with Texas DPS Troopers at RNC 2000. SS was providing protection for GW and Laura. DPS was there for their daughters. Once GW accepted the nomination, SS protected the daughters also.

It's very beneficial for a candidate to have a SS protection detail. If a candidate uses private security while on the campaign trail it can get very expensive. If they have a SS detail the SS takes care of it. The RNC and I imagine also the DNC has someone in charge of security. They set up things with the SS. Someone mentioned it and it's true SS does not have enough personnel to provide security even for the primaries. They get help by drafting agents from other federal agencies and state and local police.

While I know restrictions firearms at the convention rubs a lot of people the wrong way. However, look at the violent anti-Trump demonstrations that have taken place. What do you think is going to happen at the convention? It surely would be possible for an assassin to gain access and if you allow people to CCW you'd be making it a lot easier.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup, and an excellent summation of the situation.

Given the extraordinary security that is in place at the major political conventions, attendees have an excellent chance of surviving without having to carry personal weapons.

 

[CDW4ME]

For me, a convention (ballgame, movie) is not worth having to be disarmed.

 

[Old Fuff]

For me, a convention (ballgame, movie) is not worth having to be disarmed.

Not to worry. You can watch the proceedings on TV in the safety of your own home.

 

[CDW4ME]

Not to worry. You can watch the proceedings on TV in the safety of your own home.

Right. Or just read a report later.

 

[GRIZ22]

CDW4ME, a ballgame or movie is not a major political convention where they are selecting a candidate for POTUS.

Let's put things in perspective.

 

[CDW4ME]

CDW4ME, a ballgame or movie is not a major political convention where they are selecting a candidate for POTUS.

Let's put things in perspective.

Good idea.
Like you said, they are selecting a candidate.
So if I went:
(1) I would get to have a personal Q&A session with the candidate.
(2) I would be one of the many packed in like sardines to hear a speech.
I get to vote in Nov. like everyone else.

 

[barnbwt]

Yeah, but you have to be able to walk to the convention without getting beaten to death to participate in the democracy happening therein.

To be fair, the convention isn't actually the 'democracy,' but rather the general in November (assuming confusion between 'democracy' and 'representation' notwithstanding)

Another option is to not support candidates illiciting such desperate fury and instead cut it off at the source, but whatever...

TCB

 

[GRIZ22]

CDW4ME, remember the 10th Amendment. Thats why each party in each state gets to pick the way they run a primary. Generally delegates are allocated by popular vote. Some states are winner take all. Some states have delegates elected. So the THEY is the people in the democratic republic we have. If you have a beef with the way THEY choose a delegate, start with whatever political party you afflicted with in your state. The 10A prevents the Federal Government from telling states how to allocate delegates.

If you want to attend the convention of your choice it is difficult to get admittance. This is because of space. Most venues seat maybe 10,000 people. To think they should have 1% of voters admitted, well over 1,000,000 people, iis just ridiculous.

If you want to attend contact the party of your choice.

 

[Sam1911]

Seems like the questions regarding firearms at conventions were answered a while back. General political questions and debates are for a different forum.