Guns/Bears/Conspiricy theories

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PlayboyPenguin

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Guns/Bears/Conspiracy theories

This is not intended to be another "I am afraid a bear will eat me if I do not carry my .50mag" thread. I just wanted to share a story I heard today. I was talking to a guy in Alaska that I know about setting up a hiking/camping/gold panning trip for later this summer. I mentioned to him I ordered an Alaskan .454 casull to carry. I told him I knew that noone had ever really saved themselves with a handgun in the rare case of bear attack but it was a cool gun so I got it. He immediately said "bullshootties". He said that he had been a tour guide and wilderness guide for 25 yrs now and said bear attacks are super rare but sometimes they happen and he can name at least a half dozen men that have saved themselves with their handguns. I asked why the wildlife commission says different and he replied "because bear are more valuable then men here and they would prefer people not shoot them". He said bears bring in tons of tourism money each year and are more valuable to the state than it's citizens. Therefore they would rather people have the impression that it is not a good idea to even bother trying to use a handgun on a bear. he said he was stalked for over a mile by a brown one time before finally killing it with a .44mag rifle and he made the mistake of reporting it and was treated like a criminal for 3 days. He was not allowed to leave his camp site or talk to anyone. At the end he was told he should keep this information to himself if he did not want to get into trouble with the govt. This all sounded a little conspiracy minded to me but also makes a little bit of sense in a weird way. I am not saying he is not full of bologna but I just thought it was interesting.
 
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rings true

Sounds like he's honest, even here in Reno they're tons of rad/libs,
and we all know how gov't work attracts rad/libs
 
That sounds about right. ABWE troopers try to generate as many cases as they can. If you're having to deal with feds you're screwed even more. In the end it's all about the Almighty Greenback Dollar both from an agency and economic standpoint.

If you do a Defense of Life and Property (DLP) kill up here ya better start sharpening your knife after you call the troopers as you're required to recover the hide, skull, and all toe nails.
The skull is sent to ADF&G for measurements and tooth extraction and both are sealed (metal tag).
The state then auctions them off during the Anchorage Fur Rondevous (sp?) and the proceeds go to Alaska Fish and Wildlife Safeguard which is the anonymous tips and rewards program for reporting poaching activity.

Even as LE we're not exempt from the DLP reporting/skinning requirement. We try to avoid DLPs like the plague. Other than the rare exception steel shot to the arse sends the bears elsewhere.
 
Guns/bears/etc

I have never had an encounter with a Grizzley here in Valley Forge but have listened to many so called experts regarding bear defense. My question is this, will the pepper sprays/foggers(not the tiny purse size) work on a bear? All the "experts" at my club claim it will.
 
Don't get me wrong...I am not advocating killing bears. In fact, in most cases I would probably root for the bear over most people. Kind of a "the more people I meet the more I like my dog" kind of thing. I have had dozens of bear (or "bar" as we call them in WV) encounters (including one brown) and never really had them pay me much attention. I have even been within arms reach of them before realizing it before and they usually just go around you or outright run away. I just thought this was intersting considering the number of times we hear bear/gun questions on here.
 
Sounds like he's honest, even here in Reno they're tons of rad/libs,
and we all know how gov't work attracts rad/libs
Click to expand...

As opposed to government handouts which attracts righties like a pig with both trotters in the trough after a new batch of swill.
 
I asked why the wildlife commission says different and he replied "because bear are more valuable then men here and they would prefer people not shoot them".
Click to expand...

The Alaska Wildlife Commission doesn't say anything on the issue. There is no such thing as the Alaska Wildlife Commission. Who are you talking about? F&G recommends at least a heavy loaded .30'06, but I've never seen them claim that nobody has ever used a handgun to stop a bear attack. I know of several examples over the past few years in the Anchorage area alone.

DLP shootings do give rise to annoyances. The very best way of avoiding them is to have your brown bear tag and claim the kill as your own, at least when you're in a GMU where this is possible.

Therefore they would rather people have the impression that it is not a good idea to even bother trying to use a handgun on a bear. he said he was stalked for over a mile by a brown one time before finally killing it with a .44mag rifle and he made the mistake of reporting it and was treated like a criminal for 3 days. He was not allowed to leave his camp site or talk to anyone. At the end he was told he should keep this information to himself if he did not want to get into trouble with the govt. This all sounded a little conspiracy minded to me but also makes a little bit of sense in a weird way. I am not saying he is not full of bologna but I just thought it was interesting.
Click to expand...

Who's the "they"? What authority did they have to keep him at his camp or keep him from talking to anyone? The whole story sounds like a tall tale. Esp. the business about keeping quiet if he didn't want to get in trouble. He's full of a lot more than bologna!
 
I seem to recall a story within the last year or so of a hiker killing a bear with a 9mm.

I'm sure the wildlife commission has more than its share of antis among their ranks (both anti gun and anti hunting) so they would never do anything to encourage the ownership or carrying of handguns for any reason.
 
I believe they call themselves the Alaskan Wildlife Alliance but there are also several Alaskan Wildlife Commisions. It dependson what lands you are on. They are usually native run. I have encountered a couple different ones on my trips to Alaska. They usually add the words "Fish &" to the title. I am suprised you did not know what I am talking about. Or are you just splitting hairs? As for who "they" are, I guess you never run into game commissioners, wildlife officers, tourism officials, etc. because they all give the same speal before you go off on any expeditions. Also there was a little touristy (because that is what I am in Alaska) trading post it Skagway I go into that has the actual wildlife report posted outside the door where it states "even though there has never been a documented case of a person successfully defending themselves with a handgun against a brown" (paraphrasing) then when you go inside there where tons of pics of people that supposedly did just that.
 
The only thing I can add to this is if you are going to carry something in the woods to thwart a would be bear attack. You should take a weapon that YOU are comfortable with. For me that happens to be my .300 Wthby. Most people are not proficient enough with a handgun to be effective in a bear attack anyway. I think this is the logic behind most people's attitude's in Alaska toward the carry of a handgun for bear protection. I have heard of a guy who shot a charging bear with a 9MM and killed it on the Russian River. So can a handgun work, most definatly, should it be relied on whole heartedly? Probably not.......:uhoh:

Even the biggest rifle you own will feel like a .22LR when you have a full grown male Griz bluff charging you... Believe me I know! :eek:

- Clint
 
http://www.akwildlife.org/

??

The Alaska Wildlife Alliance is a NGO with absolutely no authority to do diddly. I'm asking because I'm trying to ID the "they" in your post. Are they troopers, feds, or what? Are you talking about the people who supposedly confined your friend to camp, or what? I'm confused.

I have encountered a couple different ones on my trips to Alaska. I am suprised you did not know what I am talking about. Or are you just splitting hairs? As for who "they" are, I guess you never run into game commissioners, wildlife officers, tourism officials, etc. because they all give the same speal before you go off on any expeditions.
Click to expand...

A couple different WHAT? Encountered how, and where? F&G enforcement in this state is ADF&G for all state lands and most federal lands other than those controlled by the NPS. The F&G officers are a branch of the state troopers. The only exception to this involves enforcement of certain native subsistence issues where aren't relevant here unless you were trying to claim subsistence rights.

Who's giving you a "speal" before what expeditions?
 
Read the whole post Cosmoline. I clearly state what I am talking about in the sentence right before the one you chose to quote. Do not expect another reply. I never can understand why some people who think they have a "know-it-all" understanding of something have to try and tear apart people that do not claim to be experts but just post a personal story they heard or experiece they had themselves. I live in oregon, that does not mean I know everything about salmon fishing or the timber industry and would never tear into someone else's story. It is just a way to juvenile tactic to me. Then agian maybe you are 12 years old for all I know. I can tell you that on both expeditions I have been on someone from the state gave us a safety lecture before we left camp. I never stated these people where arresting us or anything. I just said they gave a "speal". What his middle name was, his official title is, or what type of authority he has (one was a local native official) I am not sure. If you want that kind of depth of informtion I suggest you go experience it for yourself. Then again you probably already know him, how many kids he has, his favorite color, boxers or briefs, etc. :)
 
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm trying to figure out who's on first. You throw out a number of organization names, but none of them make any sense to me. Who is the "they" who told you handguns are ineffective? If it's a conspiracy, the first step is to figure out who this "they" is. Can you be more specific?

. I can tell you that on both expeditions I have been on someone from the state gave us a safety lecture before we left camp. I never stated these people where arresting us or anything. I just said they gave a "speal". What his middle name was, his official title is, or what type of authority he has (one was a local native official) I am not sure. If you want that kind of depth of informtion I suggest you go experience it for yourself. Then again you probably already know him, how many kids he has, his favorite color, boxers or briefs, etc.
Click to expand...

Where were you? Where were these camps? What local native tribe? Surely you can tell us where you were and what guide service you were using. Experience what for myself? I've hunted here many times, and I have yet to be given a lecture by anyone. I suspect what you went through was orchestrated by your guides, but before I can determine what weight to give it it's necessary to know who was talking to you. There are no reservations here, but there are ANC owned lands. Maybe your guides were taking you on a hunt on those lands and this fellow was from the corp. Or maybe he was just some guy. Without more specifics it's impossible to draw any conclusions.
 
Cosmoline...I am sure it was orchestrated by our guides. They often bring in troopers or other officials to give safety lessons to reduce liability. As to which guide service I used I am afraid I will decline to answer that since it would be like giving the name of the person that told me this story.
 
Why not tell us the name of the guide? It's good to know what the guides are telling people, since in this case it sounds like a lot of BS. It would really disturb me if a guide were bringing people in from the Wildlife Alliance, which sounds like it might be the case. It's not quite like bringing in PETA, but it's still pretty outrageous. Folks spend thousands and thousands to come up here, and I don't want them coming away with a lot of erroneous information or suspicions of a conspiracy.
 
Cosmo, did you read stevelyn's post? Post #5 that begins with the words "That sounds about right..."

So we've got one Alaskan saying "That sounds about right..." and another saying "HOLY COW THIS IS SUCH NONSENSE WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE COME UP WITH THIS CRAP??!!"

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, and personally I couldn't care less, but I do enjoy pointing out the occasional absurdity. :)
 
I'm not taking issue with stevelyn's post. He accurately summarizes the law about DLP shootings. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what guide service is bringing in Wildlife Alliance "experts" or local "Indian authorities" to spout off and exactly what they're saying. I'm not sure why that's causing so many problems here.
 
Why are you so eager to know? You wanting to bust the guy or something for telling a story? You some sort of bear narc or are you just a jerk that has to feel like he knows everything? Just curious. :)
 
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