Guns of, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"?

[Lone Star]

A member of another forum (not about guns) asked which revolvers were seen in, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", the old Eastwood western movie. He says they look like percussion models, but were being loaded with metallic ammo.

I didn't see the film, but surely someone here has. Do you recall the guns?

Thanks,

Lone Star

 

[Turkish]

I'm guessing they are blackpowder revolvers with the metallic ammo conversions done to them. Thanks for reminding me though, haven't seen that movie in a while, I think I'll go dig out the dvd now.

 

[dinosaur]

Tuco had a "water" gun.

 

[mfree]

I saw that the other night... I wonder what some of the stranger weapons in the shop were? Like the revolver that broke open with a lever.... neat!

 

[Preacherman]

The revolvers in TGTB&TU are one of the historical disappointments of the film. They're all Civil War-era revolvers (Army & Navy Colts, Remington 1858's, etc.) but are all shown in use with metallic cartridges. This is obviously bogus - the metallic cartridge conversions were all post-Civil War, so they aren't historically accurate.

A couple of other historical beefs:

1. The graveyard is said to be in Texas, and some of the main battle scenes are set there, but there was never major combat in Texas except along the coast.

2. The bridge is blown up with dynamite, which wasn't invented until 20+ years after the Civil War.

These historical nit-pickings aside, it's still one of my favorite movies!

 

[SAWBONES]

And the biggest "historical" (or other) inaccuracy in the film, when Tuco "mixes 'n' matches" barrel, receiver and cylider from several different guns in the gunsmith's display case, to create his idea of the best revolver!

 

[DevilDog]

Definitely the firearms are the big disappointment of that film. Maybe the only thing they got right is when Clint is in his room and he had his gun disassembled, the cartridges on the table appear to be rimfire.

Since the first metallic cartridges are rimfire, this would be accurate. Unfortunately when he shoots them, they sound more like he is shooting a .44-40!

I cannot recall if his lever action is a Henry - which would be correct.

 

[alamo]

And the biggest "historical" (or other) inaccuracy in the film, when Tuco "mixes 'n' matches" barrel, receiver and cylider from several different guns in the gunsmith's display case, to create his idea of the best revolver!

What? You mean the parts from different manufacturers pistols didn't interchange and fit perfectly?

You can often find me at a gunshop with my ear to a revolver cylinder as I slowly spin it & pull a barrel from a Ruger and put it in a S&W.

Great movie though.

 

[Preacherman]

Actually, the "mixing and matching parts" may be authentic. If all the revolvers were from the same manufacturer (e.g. all Army Colts or Remington 1858's) you would, indeed, be able to swap parts between them. I seem to recall that Tuco took an octagonal barrel from one gun, and put it on the frame and cylinder he'd selected. Octagonal barrels were an additional-cost option on many revolvers of the time, and this combination would work if the revolvers were from the same manufacturer.

 

[Dr.Rob]

As I recall Tuco takes apart several Colt Navies.

I always liked that scene.

 

[azrael]

<Tuco voice on>

If ya gonna shoot...Shoot dont talk<~~~Very good advice

<Tuco voice off>


I have always wanted one of those pistols that Tuco and Clint carried..Only ones I have found that I can afford are the .38spec. ones..grrrr!!I am referring to repros obviously

 

[Penman]

The movie has been released in DVD format, with an additional 18 minutes that was cut to make it more attractive for US distribution. Eastwood and Wallach re-voiced their scenes.

 

[Preacherman]

Yep - I just bought the new edition, and already have the old one. On the old one, the "additional" scenes were available under "Special Features" - in the new one, they're integrated into the film, and they certainly do add to it. The quality of sound is also significantly better. Worth buying.

 

[Treylis]

I just watched that the other day... noticed that Lee van Cleef is carrying catridges in belt loops, despite having a cap-and-ball revolver.

 

[Lone Star]

Thanks, guys. The fellow for whom I asked the question also says thanks. He agrees that Hollywood is weird. They'll seemingly do anything for "dramatic effect".

He asked me to add that the sound problems came partly from dubbing the sound in later, along with the various languages in which the movie was released.

Lone Star

 

[Penman]

Lone Star,
You've got homework - get the CD and watch the film. We won't make you do a report.
The dubbing was interesting, Wallach said that everyone in the film spoke in their own language, and the dialog was dubbed for the characters depending on which country where the film would be distributed.

 

[Lucky]

Resurrection:

How did the languages work in that movie? Did some people speak English and the rest Italian?

And which character would have the best set-up for cowboy-action shooting today, in terms of being able to get that gear.


Dr Rob which year of Colt Navy, 1851 or 1861? Or are they interchangeable?

 

[Cannonball888]

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded Civil War metallic cartridge guns and those who dig. You dig".

 

[The Giant Skunk]

Someone on this forum hasn't seen The Good The Bad and the Ugly!

Overall the main error with the revolvers is that they are cartridge weapons of Civil War era models. Clint carries a Colt Navy. If you watch carefully, while the shop owner talks about the various brands he has, Tuco assembles a Colt Navy from 2-3 other Colt Navys using his trained eye to discern which has the best barrel, timing etc. Lee Van Cleef carries an 1870's era Remington revolver which has a passing resemblance to the 1858 Remington 44.

Long gun-wise, Clint is seen using a Henry rifle which would be theoretically possible for the times but in at least one scene, his Henry has a brass telescopic sight which would be pretty unlikely.

Clint is also seen using a Sharps buffalo gun at one point (no spoilers here) which again bears a passing resemblance to war-time Sharpes' but is definitely post war.

If you haven't seen it, it is worthy of anyone's DVD collection. The more recently released, re-mastered version with the deleted scenes restored is a real Wow!

Off to the gun show!

 

[mustanger98]

I've been considering this stuff for a good while... While the major conversions were post-war, nothing says individual gunsmiths didn't do conversions on cylinders and hammers, those being the main two parts to be altered. That Colt's Navy Clint used was converted to .44 Henry Rimfire with no ejector assembly. They did the same thing with one of Tom Selleck's revolvers in "Last Stand at Sabre River".

The 1860 Henry rifle would be historically accurate in Civil War use, but it was mostly in use in Yankee units. It's plausible that a Confederate might have taken one off a dead Yankee. I wonder how many other people would've had them.

Sharps had black powder cartridge models that fired paper or linen cartridges fired by percussion cap. When you close the breech, a razor blade shears off the rear of the cartridge and exposes the black powder to the cap. However, there's no way to make this type action into an air-tight breech, so when it's lit, you're looking at a wall of flame that may blind you and most likely set your hat on fire.

Optics in the War Between the States era... I don't know. I don't think so.

My whole family would be rolling their eyes and sounding exasperated at me telling me "it's just a movie".

 

[Sheldon J]

It's on satellite now, Eastwood just reassembled his colt conversion and loaded it with cartridges.

 

[Old Fuff]

Ah...... Preacherman...

If you look at any of the original Colt cap & ball revolvers, as well as most of the replicas, you may notice that the following parts carry the serial number.

Frame
Cylinder
Barrel
Trigger Guard
Backstrap
Stocks
Barrel Wedge (sometimes)
Bullet Rammer (sometimes)
Cylinder Arbor (sometimes)

The reason for this is that these parts were not intended to be interchangeable between guns, and were individually fitted to one frame. The numbers insured that the right parts would get put back together after they were finished (blued, case hardened, plated, etc.) by the final assembler.

Now it is true that you'll see an occasional mis-matched cylinder, barrel wedge, or backstrap/trigger guard - but on the part of the Colt company (pardon the pun) this wasn't intended.

Octagonal barrels were not optional. They came standard on those models that featured them, and were not offered on other models. Excluding the Walker and Dragoons, that had half-octagon/half round barrels, and 1855 Sidehammer Pocket Model, the round barreled models were introduced during or after 1860.

And for those who simply must have a genuine Clint Eastwood G,B & U revolver, go to www.cimarron-firearms.com where a Uberti-made duplicate is being offered. Remember to bring money...

 

[mike101]

Here's a picture

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/ManNo NameConv.htm

 

[Sonic]

How did the languages work in that movie? Did some people speak English and the rest Italian?

I saw a documentary a while ago on the westerns made in europe during the 1960s, I think it was called "The Spaghetti West". It explained that during filming each actor usually spoke their lines in their native language, and since the actors were usually drawn from all over europe it wasn't unusual to have half a dozen (or even more) languages spoken during filming. The most common languages were spanish, french, english, german, and of course italian. It wasn't really a problem because sound wasn't recorded during filming (voices and sound effects were added during editing), and the movies had to be dubbed no matter what anyway, for showing in all the various european countries.

 

[mustanger98]

Yeah, that's why when you listen to their lines and watch their mouth moving, they almost never match. But what to you expect? I think those movies were more about filling seats in theaters than they were about telling any kind of story. Mostly those euros seemed to want more and more gore. The more of those movies I saw, the more I appreciated John Wayne and Roy Rogers.