Guns on College Campuses...

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Autolycus

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I was just thinking that it seems a lot of people are wondering about CCWing on colleges. I was thinking that if a PUBLIC school/university/college wanted to have a no weapons policy then they should have a weapons locker for students to check their firearms in. Simply put it seems that if someone has a CCW permit they should not be forced by a government body to give up their 2nd amendment rights. I dont know of any state university where they would restrict your clothing, reading material, or forbid the wearing of religious symbols.

Does anyone else see the logic in what I am saying? If the school wants me to disarm then they must have a safe and secure place for me to store my weapon.

(I would rather not disarm at all but the point being that they would have to provide gunlockers for us as they are a state government funded institution and not a private business.)
 
Guns on Collage Campues!!

This issue was just resolved here in Utah!!! U of U thought they were above the rest of the State and could make any rule they wanted. Just got slapped down by the Courts!!!:D They somehow think they can still denie CCL from the campus but they are going to learn the hard way that they are still a Public Supported Univ. and have to follow the Constitution just like everyone else. :neener:
You might want to do a search for articles on this from the Salt Lake area.
 
I like the idea, I really do and I could see it holding up for private universities but not public ones. Most states prohibit carrying firearms on state owned property, of any sort. They aren't going to change those laws. Private Universities are usually granted some sort of charter by the state to operate as a quasi-city with general police powers. And then there's just the general laws that alot of states have flat out banning firearms on campuses of any type.
 
Weapons locker wouldn't work since you have to carry your weapon to the locker which is on campus where firearms are frequently forbidden. Unless there are metal detectors, I am going to do what makes sense to me.

I always carried a pocket knife, but never considered a firearm at that time. It was not for defense, but as a useful utility item that I used frequently.
 
It isnt going to go anywhere in federal court because it isnt a matter of federal law. The University has no more power to override the Utah laws on murder than they do the laws on concealed carry. They simply arent a legislative body.

The problem elsewhere is that most states forbid guns on schools and count universities, graduate schools and law schools as "schools." Which means that as a 30 year old law student, I have to disarm before going onto school property. I think it's stupid, but it's too easy to shoot down such a proposal by screaming "he wants to legalize guns in school! omg columbine!" Frustrating.
 
I always loved using the Columbine example to make CCW on Campus illegal.

1. The columbine kids broke like 50 laws that were on the books already.

2. College campuses have long been considered easy pickin's for rapists, muggers, kidnappers, murderers and general no-goodnicks (Not to mention the Marxist teaching staff).

I have a good idea that arming teachers and University students instead of turning them into sheep would solve the problem right quick.

Oh well. In the mean time:
http://dict.die.net/concealed/
 
I had a snub nose .357 magnum or my Springfield 1911 with me at all times when I was in college. Of course it was a community college so the laws weren't as strict as a state university. I do remember a couple of times though visiting the state university with my FN FAL in the trunk of the car. :evil: If you have your CCW permit and are caught on state property while carrying, it is reduced to a misdemeanor rather than being a felony. I can't say what to do but I know I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
 
Lord I wish campuses could be turned firearm friendly for those of us that obey the law. It seems like students don't understand the importants of all their rights (well civic duty if you ask me). I know it makes me sound like a whack job to non firearm owners but the first amendment really has nothing to stand on with out the second. And obviously thats not the case at current times but if my education has taught me anything its that history repeats itself and that once governments make a shift from serving the people to directing and controlling the people bad stuff occurs. oh and on a side note what really upsets me is that where I go to school (Detroit), the only people on campus with firearms are punks and criminals. and the illegal actions of these people with illegal firearms gets me judged! ARHAGE!EFS!# ...... ok I'm calmed down for like 3 more weeks
 
beerslurpy'

The University of Utah federal lawsuit is being argued on the theory that a curtailment of the U's firearms policy "violates its right to academic freedom guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments". The validity of the gun policy itself is not the focus of the suit.
 
This one bears directly on me, because I plan on attending law school at the U of U.

The presidency of the U have said they will ignore the ruling, but this is absurd, because, their campus police, being state employees, cannot arrest anyone for following state law. All they can do is ACADEMICALLY AND ADMINISTRATIVELY harrass students they suspect of carrying. (Make sure it stays concealed, keep your mouth shut.)

Their legal position about academic freedom is very thin, because they are a STATE university, and the ONLY state university to take such a position. (My Criminal Justice professors at Weber State University haven't said a word.) In court, they will have to show that their ability to teach is being hindered by legally concealed weapons.

The really ridiculous part is, their policy applies ONLY to students and employees. Others, who are not enrolled can walk through armed, and no one can say a word.
 
Sorry, I meant it wasnt a matter of federal law unless you depart significantly from common sense and established jurisprudence.

On one hand you have an exercise of the state police power. Utah made a decision to regulate the carrying of concealed firearms in a manner it felt was consistent with public safety. 49 other states do this same thing, so it isnt exactly controversial. The state has a compelling interest in public safety, against which we can apply the harms that their action inflicts upon some other party. A balancing act.

On the other hand, the university is attempting to create a new right of "academic freedom" and allege that this law violates it, despite the law having no direct connection with the education process itself. Additionally, they will be pretty hard pressed to show how hidden firearms will in some way restrict their academic freedom. Pretty much I predict this fails because they will be unable to show any concrete harm to this right, even assuming that the right exists.

It's a semi-clever legal argument, but they are basically grasping at straws.
 
As I commented in another thread:

In this instance, the gun issue is incidental. What is really being debated is whether the University can tell the Legislature to go pound sand at will. This has been in the making for some time and if it wasn't guns, it would have been something else that brought us to this point.

If you think about it, the University is using the concept of "academic freedom" much like the federal government uses the commerce clause - it essentially covers everything under the sun. The University is using this issue in it's bid to become a fully autonomous, taxpayer-funded institution with absolutely no state oversight. That is what this is about.
 
I am not going to talk about Utah so forgive me. I think it is awesome though is that the legislature is going to back us up. I know it may be about something else but it is still nice. Perhaps I may be transfering to U of Utah...:D

.22 Junkie-At my old school they kept the weapons lockers in the police department which was kept off school property. It was literally across the street from campus. I think most schools will have the lockers off campus for the students to avoid this problem.

Either way I think that state schools should have them for students. I dont understand how they can ban them due to the 1st and the 14th amendments when the 2nd amendment seems to say it is not a problem?:cuss:
 
Colleges

Tecumseh: Yes, colleges should provide lockers if they aren't going to allow the weapons. However, I have attended 1 full-time, and another part-time, and neither did so.

CarKnocker: Your analogy of "academic freedom" to the commerce clause is right on.

beerslurpy: I am very near to completing my bachelor's degree. I am with you on the ludicrous nature of being forbidden to exercise our rights at school. I may be young, but having jumped through the hoops for a carry permit, I think that shows some responsibility.

ProguninTN
 
I may be young, but having jumped through the hoops for a carry permit, I think that shows some responsibility.
Click to expand...

Awesome. You will soon go from not at all free, to sorta free. Maybe after Naifeh goes, we can be truly free!
 
ProguninTN:

Thats exactly my point. If the school is a state school they should have to provide lockers for those of us who armed. Perhaps we could argue this if CCW is legal on a college campus in that state then they should provide lockers for us. I personally would rather carry but the point is I probably do not wish to risk getting expelled if caught. The expulsion being my deliberate breaking of the students conduct code or something along those lines.
 
in Texas you can walk around campus armed with a CHL but you cannot enter into a campus building, unless you are a sworn LE officer.
 
I don't like the lock box idea at all. Let's the criminals know where all the guns are. And that no one on campus has one. Wether you left it at home or in the school lock box it's the same net result. If someone goes nuts and starts gunning people down all you can do is run, if you can.
 
Tecumseh, I agree with you. I recently visited my girlfriend at her dorm, and they have a no-firearms policy in the dorms. They, however, have a dorm armory for student's firearms and bows, so at least they're providing.

Whether they'd actually be safe in the armory is another matter, because I didn't get to see it, but the dorm itself was very secure.
 
I don't think you understand how much most academics hate guns. They are utopian pacifists. Think about it, most womens studies programs teach the idea that all sex is rape, and that men are evil. Ever hear of womyn? They hated men so much they took the man out of woman. And you think you are going to get to carry a gun as a man in that environment?
 
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