Gunshop that sold Lanza guns

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clutch

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I heard on the news that the gun shop that sold some of the weapons used by Lanza lost their FFL after ~500 violations.

What I'd like to know is just what the violations were. Did some one abbreviate IN as IND, get dyslexic with a serial number or was there a pattern of just not doing things properly.

Does anyone have more info on this?
 
Here is a link to USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/11/newtown-gun-store/2073523/

The final Dec. 20 revocation notice listed more than 500 violations in all, including that Dibella, the gun store employee, sold ammunition on at least two occasions between January 2010 and July 2011 to Wilfred Hellandbrand, "whom he had reason to believe was a felon."
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Does CT have background checks for Ammo purchases? How exactly is clerk supposed to know your a felon?
 
Here is a link to USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...store/2073523/


Quote:
The final Dec. 20 revocation notice listed more than 500 violations in all, including that Dibella, the gun store employee, sold ammunition on at least two occasions between January 2010 and July 2011 to Wilfred Hellandbrand, "whom he had reason to believe was a felon."

Does CT have background checks for Ammo purchases? How exactly is clerk supposed to know your a felon?
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if he suspected him of being a felon and sold to him he violated the law.
 
if he suspected him of being a felon and sold to him he violated the law.
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Not defending the shut down the store at all, apparently they have have some shoddy record keeping...

Even an NICS Denial doesnt mean your a felon though. So unless they specifically knew the persons history I find it odd.

Just a guess from left field, that a number of the violations are someone answering question #12 and scratching it out as Ive seen that done a lot. (the one where your supposed to leave it blank,)
 
No background check for ammo (yet), but as Jerry said, if the seller personally knew the buyer to be a felon, there may have been a problem.

I had no love for Riverview. The staff was either pushy or aloof, never friendly. Their prices sucked, especially on used firearms. Only once (on a Glock 29) were they competitive enough with other shops for me to buy there.

I used to stop by often as they were right next to my preferred barber shop. Despite all of my complaints they were still a gun store, and I've always got my eyes open for neat deals.
 
Let's stick to the facts and not the press version of the facts. Adam Lanza did not buy a gun from the store in question. Adam's mother bought a gun there and there was no reason to deny her the sale. Adam Lanza took his mother's guns and killed her (which is illegal) before going to the elementary school which he attended as a child to shoot people. The press does not report this and it does not justify his actions but the reports I have read is that he was bullied frequently while attending school there because of his appearance and introverted tendencies to the point that his mother would come to the school while Adam was at recess and lunch because she felt the teachers and administration were not doing anything to stop the bullying. Now you know why he chose that school, it was not a random event.
 
I know some states have crazy laws but in normal states, isn't selling a felon ammunition legal? Isn't possessing ammunition as a felon legal? (Forgive my ignorance on this part of the law but never thought about it before).
 
No, the sale or transfer to a known or suspected felon of ammunition, or the receipt of or possession of even a single round (or component of a round) of ammunition by a felon is illegal.
 
Medwheeler, In every state I've lived in with the exception of Ca. I have never had to give ID to purchase ammo, therefore how would some clerk know I was a felon? I know a felon cannot own a firearm, however, that would be discovered on a NICS check. Please explain that tidbit of info.:confused:
 
It was and still is my store for reloading stuff. I was just there last Thursday to see if they had any powder or primers that I use (no). They were still selling ammo and had a good selection of powder for rifles. The gun racks are still covered with tarps but some of the display cases were being filled with optics, knives, etc. It looks like they plan to stay in business without selling firearms. However, I thought you needed a FFL to sell ammo retail. As a gun store, they were decent. Their prices were ok but they had a better selection than the small shops you see around. I always found the staff helpful. Too bad, it seems like they were punished for selling the gun that Lanza used. It looks like it is a show more than a gross violation of federal laws. From what I heard, when their license was suspended, they had 90 days to appeal it and they chose to not appeal it. 2 instances of an employee selling ammo to a suspected felon in all those years seems like they wanted a scape goat.
 
Steel Horse Rider said:
Let's stick to the facts and not the press version of the facts. Adam Lanza did not buy a gun from the store in question. Adam's mother bought a gun there and there was no reason to deny her the sale. Adam Lanza took his mother's guns and killed her (which is illegal) before going to the elementary school which he attended as a child to shoot people.
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This was my understanding as well....has this changed or is it media hype?

To me, the media should have pointed out that the current system WORKED....Lanza was denied after a background check.

The issue was in the home and in his head....neither of which the govt can or should control.
 
I did a bit more searching. This link has a link inside it to a ATF document concerning the violations.

I'm curious how the ATF knows the store sold ammo to a felon. Was there some sort of Bloomberg sting involved?

Are some of the violations just simple human error transcribing numbers?

Then the multiple sales of gun reporting thing. If someone comes in on Monday and buys a gun and on Friday buys another gun from a different clerk, it would seem easy mess that up.

I'd be curious to hear form those that run a gun shop what kind of error rate is found during an inspection?

Clutch
 
People live in communities. There is a restaurant in the same plaza as Riverview, for example. Maybe an employee had lunch with a local at the same time every day, and they get to know each other a bit. It turns out he's a convicted felon. Now the employee knows. He sells him ammo anyway, and when the Feds come sniffing around, people know that they knew each other.

Maybe the Feds can't prove what the employee knew, but they might conclude that he should have known. It may not be fair but that's the way the system seems to operate these days.
 
Not defending stores that are shady. We don't need them and they hurt all of use. But I hate when the media does this. We're Lanza's guns bought legally? If this store had been shut down because of the 500 viations would sandy hook still have happened? Would Lanza's mom have just bought them at another shop?

Not reason to correlate Lanza with this gun shop and violations if the guns used at sandy hook were not bought iliigally
 
Medwheeler, In every state I've lived in with the exception of Ca. I have never had to give ID to purchase ammo
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I had to a few times in Arkansas, but it was only to make sure I was 18. I don't have that problem anymore.
 
Loose noose writes:

Medwheeler, In every state I've lived in with the exception of Ca. I have never had to give ID to purchase ammo, therefore how would some clerk know I was a felon? I know a felon cannot own a firearm, however, that would be discovered on a NICS check. Please explain that tidbit of info.
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It does remain illegal for convicted felons to possess ammunition, and for anyone to knowingly transfer to a convicted felon any ammunition.

The law does not provide any requirement that transferers verify such "clear" status exists, but that doesn't mean such transfers or receipts are okay.

See the link below.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf
 
500 infractions. One of which involved cops recovering 10 stolen guns and returning them. Problem wad they didn't even know they were gone. The 500 was on ome inspection. There trouble spanned years and preceded newtown

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
 
Not defending the shut down the store at all, apparently they have have some shoddy record keeping...
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From elsewhere, I understand that BATF record keeping is an archaic system. What are the pros and cons of updating this system?
 
hang fire said:
One does not have to be paranoid to know when they are out to get you.
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Exactly. When I go onto Youtube to view pro gun videos and have to sit through a video demanding that I support background check reform that has nothing to do with either of the mass shootings they're waving in my face, I tend to get a bit paranoid about people who want to neuter my rights.
 
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