H110 Reduced Loads

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56hawk

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I'm trying to figure out how to come up with a starting load for a bullet with no published data. I have QuickLoad, so I'll have a general idea of what is going on. Just trying to figure out a safe starting load since H110 is not suppose to be reduced beyond a certain point.

Does anyone know if there is a safe minimum based off of case capacity or pressure? By the way, this is for a 700 grain bullet in a 500 S&W.
 
Hogdon doesn't have any data beyond the 500 gr. bullet. And simply due to the lack of data pretaining to bullets larger than 500 gr., it would seem to me that bigger than 500 gr. is possibly beyond what has been SAAMI tested.

On another note, are you like trying to use a .50 cal. bullet designed for a different 50 cal. cartridge, and then loaded in the 500 S&W case? I'm just asking because I'm not all that familar with that cartridge, but I did notice that Hogdon, IMR, and Winchester don't list a charge for a bullet larger than 500 grains. I would just be nervous developing a load for a bullet that exceeds the chart by such an extreme degree. 200 grains is 40% over the heaviest bullet published.
 
What is the load combo you are after? Just because you don't see it on line or in the book(s) you have does not necessarily mean that there is no published data for it.

Caliber?
Bullet weight?

If there really is no good data available, I'm sure we can come up with a safe alternative for you to work with.

P.S. W296 / H110 doesn't really do well with reduced loads either.
 
By the way, this is for a 700 grain bullet in a 500 S&W.
Click to expand...
Might as well just dump some Bullseye powder in it and blow it up / shake it loose and get it over with, sooner rather then later!

.460 Weatherby rifles don't shoot 700 grain bullets.
S&W revolvers don't either, or they would have had factory loads for them by now!

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it!

rc
 
The bullet is a .500" designed for the 500 S&W. I have found some load data on the internet for it, but don't exactly trust the source. That's why I want to start low and work my way up. Here is a picture of the bullet next to the 340 grain load I have been using:

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Nice picture.
That sucker is over twice as long as the .500 S&W bullet next to it!

But that's what I was saying.

If there was pressure tested data from a bullet or powder manufacture for 700 grain bullets, you could trust it.

But there isn't.

rc
 
Why not contact KDM or Ballistic Supply and ask them for data? Since they seem to be a driving force for these overgrown slugs, and Ballistic Supply sells loaded ammo, they should be able to verify the charges for you.
 
When a powder company or bullet manufacturer does not have any load data for a caliber/bullet combination there is usually a very good reason. I highly suggest calling Hodgdon and asking them if that bullet is safe to load with H110...
 
I have loaded those bullets but NOT with H110/W296. I was using Trail Boss and AA#5 and they worked fine. If I were you I would use a different propellant. If Suffy comes along he might have a better idea of what to use with H110 and if what you are trying to do is safe.
 
would a normal man be able to safely control a 500S&W revolver when shooting a 700 grain bullet? I have shot full power 44mags and don't want to even think about the wrist breaking recoil and ear piercing kaboom that would be developed by a 500 S&W with a 700g bullet!!

Call me a woos, chicken or whatever, I have no desire to even be near that 500 hand cannon when he touches off one of those 700g reloads.

I venture to say this 700 g bullet gives new meaning to the term
"MAXI MAG"

BULL
 
FROGO207 said:
I have loaded those bullets but NOT with H110/W296. I was using Trail Boss and AA#5 and they worked fine. If I were you I would use a different propellant. If Suffy comes along he might have a better idea of what to use with H110 and if what you are trying to do is safe.
Click to expand...
I kind of agree with this. Fast powder and heavy bullets usually dont mix. I think a real fast powder would get one heck of a pressure spike trying to get all that mass moving instantly.

I know in my 357 mag. I use bullseye from 125 gr to 158 gr.
Then use Unique for 158 to 180 gr.
The reason being a slower powder with give a push start on the mass instead of a fast whack.
Thats my take any way.
 
FROGO207 said:
I have loaded those bullets but NOT with H110/W296. I was using Trail Boss and AA#5 and they worked fine. If I were you I would use a different propellant. If Suffy comes along he might have a better idea of what to use with H110 and if what you are trying to do is safe.
Click to expand...

A Pause for the Coz said:
I kind of agree with this. Fast powder and heavy bullets usually dont mix. I think a real fast powder would get one heck of a pressure spike trying to get all that mass moving instantly.

I know in my 357 mag. I use bullseye from 125 gr to 158 gr.
Then use Unique for 158 to 180 gr.
The reason being a slower powder with give a push start on the mass instead of a fast whack.
Thats my take any way.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider H110/W296 a fast powder....not in a handgun anyway. It's #55 on the burn chart as compared to Bullseye as #2, Trail Boss as # 19 and Unique as #26. This is from fastest(#1) to slowest (#131).
 
H110/W296 is not fast, but it does spike the pressure at both ends of the spectrum. At the high end, you get too much pressure, and due to its burn characteristics, pressure can spike to unsafe levels at the low end. H110, if loaded to hot, produces too much pressure. If loaded too light, it burns a tad slow creating by products that then detonate and ignite the rest of the charge. The safe range where neither of these will happen is the data the powder and bullet companies publish

I would guess that, with a 700 grn bullet, the window of safe loading data is exceedingly small (on the order a grain or two) to nonexistent. It could well be that the same amount of H110 in the same case with that projectile could either burn the way it should and produce too much pressure, or it could burn inconsistently, detonate, and produce too much pressure. Either way is no good.

The only way to know is call the powder company to see if it's safe.
 
Well, I've decided to start with 22.5 grains of H110. It should do 700 fps with a chamber pressure of 25,000 psi and use 70% case capacity.
 
70% case capacity does seem a little on the low side. Most H110 starting loads that I have used are normally about 80%, can't ever recall seeing one that low before.

Either way, let us know how if goes, as I would really like to try some of those bullets in the future.
 
Just found this info, not sure if I would consider it a reliable source or not, but values do add up to what Quickload says they should be.

700 GR. Lead Flat-nose GC .501
Lil'Gun 27.2 gr. 1,294 fps
Lil'Gun 27.5 gr. ~1,200 fps (max, start lower)
Lil'Gun 27.0 gr. 1,126 fps
H110/W296 24.5 gr. 1,000 ~ fps
H110/W296 25.0 gr. 1,036 fps
H110/W296 25.4 gr. 1,067 fps Max - bullet seated out sightly to avoid powder compression
IMR 4759 22.2 gr. 982 fps.
 
cberge8 said:
70% case capacity does seem a little on the low side.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I wanted to check. Lyman lists a 375 grain bullet with 32 grains of H110 that should be just under 70% case capacity. I decided to use this as a basis for my starting load.

As a couple people mentioned. Internet data lists loads around 25 grains with the 700 grain bullet. QuickLoad predicts safe pressures up to 29.5 grains. I'm going to work up slow checking for signs of pressure as I go. Might hit my recoil tolerance before I get there though.
 
If you haven't done so already, you ight post this question over on the Handgun Hunting Forum at Accurate Reloading.

There are several who shoot some pretty big stuff over there.
 
If loaded too light, it burns a tad slow creating by products that then detonate and ignite the rest of the charge.
Click to expand...

Can you please document an instance where a low charge of H110/W296 detonated in a case?

Thanks.

;)

Bruce
 
Took the 500 to the range yesterday. The starting load of 22.5 grains worked just fine with a whopping 770 fps. Worked up to 26 grains which is more than any of the online sources listed. Got the velocity up to 970 fps. Recoil was getting pretty stout, but not much more than my hot 340 grain loads. Might try a few more grains and see how it goes.
 
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