H4227 powder?

[IWAC]

Has anyone heard of/used H 4227 or IMR 4227 for .38 Special or .357 Magnum reloads? I just ran across it in a LOADBOOK I bought, and it looks like it might be a viable option. The burn rate chart lists both as very similar, somewhat (?) Slower than 2400 or Blue Dot, and waaay slower than Unique or Universal.

 

[WrongHanded]

I've seen it as an option in manuals and recently did some reading about it as I've been considering it for .454 Casull.

Now this is just what I read around the web, not solid fact. From what I have gathered, H4227 and IMR4227 were close but not identical. So Hodgdon replaced IMR4227 with the H4227, but calls it IMR4227. To reiterate, they kept the powder previously known as H4227, and rebranded it IMR4227, effectively changing the old IMR4227 slightly.

Again, this is just what I read: New IMR4227 can be used for H4227 data. But beware using the new IMR4227 with old IMR4227 data.

And of course this could be totally wrong. In which case someone will correct me and I'll learn something too.

 

[Charlie98]

The whole deal where Hodgdon is combining powder labels is kind of stupid, I think. I understand the economy of it, but it's confusing (which powders are really which?) and risky with older data. Hodgdon data only lists one bullet for IMR4227 (140grn) but everything under H4227. I would email Hodgdon directly and see if you are able to use that data interchangeably.

I use IMR4227 quite a bit for my .41MAG loads, it's particularly excellent in my 20" Marlin 1894. I don't think it would be the best powder in a short barreled .357, particularly with a lighter bullet.... I would go straight to H110/W296 for that.

 

[2ndtimer]

I have never tried either of the 4227 powders. From what I have read of others experience, they were disappointed in either velocity, accuracy or both. My personal experience has been very positive with maximum performance with H-110/W-296, Alliant Power Pro-300MP, and Accurate No. 9. I have tried some loads with 2400 (which many swear by), but have not been that impressed. If I want better economy with still upper mid-range performance, I go with Power Pistol.

 

[labnoti]

I am using recently-purchased "4227" that is labeled with the IMR label. It is made in Canada. I read and believe the same thing Wrong Handed posted about it being H4227 but now labeled as IMR4227. I suggest using current load data from Hodgdon's online reloading reference.

4227 is an interesting powder, well-worth experimenting with. It is a single-base powder, using only nitrocellulose (gun cotton) and no nitroglycerin. From the looks of it, it appears to be an extruded tube-shaped powder. The granules are like little hollow cylinders, but they're short so they almost look like mini donuts. Based on my experience, it is somewhat hard to ignite, especially with compressed loads. I have not yet, but would suggest trying it with magnum primers, particularly with those compressed loads in .357 magnum where the "book" calls for magnum primers.

4227 is a "magnum" powder in the sense that it can deliver full .357 magnum performance as seen with powders like 2400, H110, and Lil Gun. Similarly, it may not be advisable to use it for light or medium loads (haven't tried it). With published starting loads in .357 magnum, it gives decent velocity and I get the perception that it's softer-shooting than H110. It just seems tamer in the blast and report. As I increased the charge, it did not keep up with H110. Near max loads, the velocity was considerably less than similar loads with H110. Again, I suspect I wasn't getting good ignition.

It is notorious for blowing powder skeletons. With starting loads, I didn't see too much problem. Near max loads, it was really blowing debris all over which I could see because of the snow on the ground.

Theoretically, it should be easier on the gun than H110 or Lil Gun in terms of throat erosion because of a lower flame temperature and less powder scouring.

I never tried it and don't see much point to using it at .38 Special pressure levels. But I do like it in published starting .357 loads, and even there it is outperforming the faster burning powders.

Let's see, what else? It's not the most economical powder. It takes a case full. But it does offer a margin of safety against overcharging .357 (you can't fit too much powder). Overall, I might like it better than H110, but I'm introducing myself to Lil Gun which might turn out to be my favorite.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I think IMR 4227 is the only one still being made. I’ve used it for 38 Special, 357 mag, and 30 carbine. It works great for 357 (especially with heavier bullets) and 30 carbine. Similar to (but not the same as) H110. It will work with 38 Special, but it’s not for light bullets (use 158 grain or heavier) and it will most likely be dirty and blow flames and unburned powder out of a short barrel. On the other hand, if you want to load 200 grain lead bullets in 38 Special, it may be the way to go.

 

[Charlie98]

From what I have read of others experience, they were disappointed in either velocity, accuracy or both.

4227 is a "magnum" powder in the sense that it can deliver full .357 magnum performance as seen with powders like 2400, H110, and Lil Gun. Similarly, it may not be advisable to use it for light or medium loads (haven't tried it). With published starting loads in .357 magnum, it gives decent velocity and I get the perception that it's softer-shooting than H110. It just seems tamer in the blast and report. As I increased the charge, it did not keep up with H110. Near max loads, the velocity was considerably less than similar loads with H110. Again, I suspect I wasn't getting good ignition.

I think it's much like 2400 in that respect... nothing can out-Magnum H110 or W296. In my load testing with W296 and IMR4227, W296 did indeed deliver more velocity; shooting steel at distance I don't need the 'inth degree of velocity, and reducing muzzle blast and firearm heat is a welcome addition. The way I load it, it is softer shooting, way less blasty, and does run cooler... very often I will shoot 100 rounds through the Marlin at a sitting, or 50 through my Smith or Dan Wesson, and they are not as hot as they would be after W296, for example, and the people on either side of me will still be speaking to me. It's not as economical as Unique, but I can get better velocities than I can running Unique up to the max. I was shooting my 4" Smith 57 out to 500yds and making 6 of 6 hits on steel pipe... so the consistency is there. I originally did not like IMR4227... it stank, and initially had poor accuracy from it, but I realized I was soft-balling the load. Once I pumped the load up into the middle of the book data, everything turned to gold.

Flintstone says what I think... it would be good for 158grn and up .357 loads, and probably not so much for .38SPC.

 

[627PCFan]

My go to load for 125gn XTP's in 357 its 18.5gn of H4227, I get an honest 1550fps out of my 627. Its accurate but it has a habit of leaving a kernel or 2 in the chambers which can hinder quick reloads. Oh yeah it heats the barrel up quick too.

 

[Walkalong]

It is too slow for .38 Spl.

It can be very good in magnum calibers.

 

[627PCFan]

and +1 it smells bad.

 

[243winxb]

I like 2400 better then IMR4227. 357 magnum.

 

[1KPerDay]

I've only tried it in .357 with 158s and .30 Carbine with book loads under 110s and didn't particularly like it either. Lots of debris and not any more accurate than my other loads.

 

[WrongHanded]

IMR4227 was the first powder I used, and I was working up a 158gr coated LSWC in .357. I found the 2400 I was actually looking for before ever getting the 4227 all the way up. But I did get the charge up enough to see the accuracy potential and stop having oodles of kernels left behind. Never did get it to stop smelling bad though.

I'm sure I'll play with it again. Once I'm done working up my project loads using 2400.

 

[wild willy]

I’ve used a good bit of it in the past for me it works best in larger calibers heavier bullet at close to max loads.Light bullets and lighter loads it’s very dirty . I like 2400 and AA9 It’s not a bad powder I just think are better choices

 

[2ndtimer]

I think IMR 4227 is the only one still being made. I’ve used it for 38 Special, 357 mag, and 30 carbine. It works great for 357 (especially with heavier bullets) and 30 carbine. Similar to (but not the same as) H110. It will work with 38 Special, but it’s not for light bullets (use 158 grain or heavier) and it will most likely be dirty and blow flames and unburned powder out of a short barrel. On the other hand, if you want to load 200 grain lead bullets in 38 Special, it may be the way to go.

View attachment 824169 View attachment 824170

Interesting looking at that old Lyman reloading data. I wonder what those listed .357 Mag Herco loads would pressure test today? Clearly not intended for today's "Beta Males"!

 

[buck460XVR]

Yes, per Hodgdon, IMR4227 is the old H4227 rebranded and the old IMR4227 discontinued. While they used to tell you that data was not interchangeable, I believe it was so close they felt no danger in rebranding the powders and not making new data available or even making it common knowledge about the rebranding. IMR4227(both old and new) is a powder that it would be hard to get enough of it under a bullet in a handgun case to make for unsafe pressure. That's the problem with it. Large case and heavy bullets it works well with. It is my go to powder in .460 with 300 grainers. But in small cases like .357 and standard and light for caliber bullets there are much better options. I like it in my .44 carbines too. For me, IMR 4227 works best when near or just at compressed. It likes a heavy crimp and prefers long pipes. I don't see it at all for being practical in .38, not only because of performance, but because of it's cost. It's one of the higher priced Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powder out there, so I only use it for applications where it works well.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Interesting looking at that old Lyman reloading data. I wonder what those listed .357 Mag Herco loads would pressure test today? Clearly not intended for today's "Beta Males"!

I don’t know, but the 195 grain 38 Specials with 9.3 gr IMR 4227 kick like a mule. (It’s OK, I was shootin’ it out of a 357 revolver).

It’ll put hair on your chest (and then burn it back off).

 

[Rbstuartjr]

I’ve been using it in my 32-40 loads with 170gn cast lead bullets without any issues.

 

[orpington]

IMR 4227 is my favourite smokeless powder. I've had good luck with it in .44 Special loads, among others.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Has anyone heard of/used H 4227 or IMR 4227 for .38 Special or .357 Magnum reloads? I just ran across it in a LOADBOOK I bought, and it looks like it might be a viable option. The burn rate chart lists both as very similar, somewhat (?) Slower than 2400 or Blue Dot, and waaay slower than Unique or Universal.

I have used a 180 gr cast with IMR4227 in 38spl. It was from an old RCBS cast bullet manual. Recoil was light. Velocity was around 800fps.

 

[Charlie98]

I’ve been using it in my 32-40 loads with 170gn cast lead bullets without any issues.

I've used it in .30-30 and .308 loads with cast 170grn bullets as well, IMR4227 actually turned in lower SD than either IMR4198 or IMR3031.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

As I recall, IMR 4227is also works pretty good in .300 Blackout.

 

[Iroquois]

I use IMR4227 in my
41 mag hunting loads with the Hornady 210gr XTP. Very accurate and the recoil is not punishing at all.

 

[BigBore45]

I use it in 357 mag. Also in 30 carbine. 7.62x39R. And 45 colt ruger loads. It's a good powder but it always leaves alot of residue. I'm sure it will be gone in the next 20 years

 

[Jesse Heywood]

4227 is one of my favorite powders. It is very accurate, but does not give the highest velocity. I use magnum primers for a more complete burn.
357 mag., 158 LSWC, 15.0-16.0 gr.
38 spl., 158 LSWC, 9.0-9.5 gr.
There are better powders for 38 spl.