Had my First (and hopefully last) Squib

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lpsharp88

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First and foremost, no damage was done to me, or my Glock 19. Both are completely ok, just VERY thankful. This may be a bit of a long read, but I'd like to describe my loading process, what happened leading up to the squib, ask about a few things, and offer some ideas about how I should change my processes.

In the past, I have always loaded 115gr LRN for my 9mm, but recently came into a good deal on some 124gr LRN, so I figured I'd give them a try. I didn't have load data for 124gr lead with the powder I wanted to use (700-X), so, I used data for 125gr lead. Starting low and working up. The load range for that weight of bullet using 700-X is 2.9-3.4 grains (per pg. 510 of Lee #2). I found that 2.9 wouldn't reliably cycle my pistol, but 3.0 did. I ran about 200 rounds of 3.0gr seated to 1.125" through my G19 no issues. My idea was to find a load that would reliably cycle my pistol, nothing more. Figured it'd be a soft shooting round, and would save me powder (I'll address this later).

First, my loading process. I load on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker using Lee Carbide Dies. I sort, tumble, size/decap, expand, prime, charge, seat, then apply a light crimp. Pretty standard stuff. When I am charging, I first verify that my scale (a 5-0-5) is zeroed. I dial in my Uniflow for my charge, re-verify the zero on my scale, then also re-verify the charge being thrown one more time for good measure (I didn't verify with a check weight, more on that later as well). I'll throw the confirmed charge into the 10th case in the row I am charging, then charge the other 9. I'll throw a charge to weigh, make any adjustments to the Uniflow as needed, then repeat the process. Once I charge a whole loading block of 50, I'll look at each case and verify that it is charged. After that, I move on to seating, etc.

Using that loading method, I loaded up 400 rounds of this ammo for a class I took yesterday. It was just a basic defensive pistol class. Everything started out good, it fed, fired, extracted, etc just fine. Then we started doing some one handed drills, and I was reliably getting a failure to feed (slide would close and chamber the round when I'd remove the mag) when I was doing one handed shooting with my weak hand. I chalked it up to limp wristing, since I'm pretty useless with my right hand. I didn't think of it at the time, but I'd never had that problem before. The squib happened on the next drill. We were back to two handed shooting and I had another fail to feed. I did remedial action (tap/rack etc) and nothing would work. We called a cease fire and tore the pistol apart, and sure enough, a bullet was lodged in my barrel. Thankfully it didn't go far enough down to let the next round chamber, or I would have been hurting. We knocked it out with a cleaning rod and hammer, looked the barrel and gun over, then got back to work. A student was nice enough to let me use his TulAmmo for the remainder of the class.

Cause of the Squib
1. What I think is most likely is that I somehow missed an uncharged case, despite looking at every case prior to seating. My guess is I zoned out a little, need to improve lighting at my bench, or both (probably the first option honestly). What leads me to think that this is the most likely cause is the fact that the bullet didn't go far enough down the barrel to let me chamber the next round.
2. Severely undercharged case. 700-X doesn't meter the best, so maybe instead of getting the 3.0gr I was expecting, I got something substantially less. I've never really had a problem with that in the past, but since I was so close to minimum charge anyway, maybe that had an effect.
3. Temperature combined with an undercharged case. This is a long shot, but I'd still like some input on this. I am unsure how temperature sensitive 700-X is as well. The temperature was at, or a bit below freezing for much of the morning. Could the temperature combined with a light charge cause this? My ammo was stored in my apartment the night before the class, so it was only exposed to the cold for as long as I was, maybe 2 hours tops before the squib.
4. Scale wasn't calibrated correctly. As mentioned earlier, I didn't use a check weight to verify that it was correct, just zeroed it and went about my business.

Takeaways/Changes to my Reloading Process
1. Immediate takeaway is that I'm incredibly lucky I didn't have a gun blow up in my face. I'm already ugly enough, so I don't wanna add to it. Let alone pay doctor bills and have to replace a gun
2. I need to be COMPLETELY focused when doing this. Like I said before, I think I missed an uncharged case, and there is no excuse for that whatsoever.
3. Should add lighting around my bench. The lighting isn't great, so I either need to add lighting, or shine a flashlight in the cases when I look at them
4. Load used needs to be altered. I focused too much on soft shooting and powder savings. When I first started reloading, I purposely picked 3.5gr 700-X with 115gr LRN because it is literally in the middle of the load range. It gives lots of room for error in terms of variation when powder is being thrown. I will start throwing 3.1gr or 3.2gr with this bullet immediately.
5. Check weight usage. I admittedly didn't verify my scale with a check weight prior to doing this, and I'm an idiot for it. All I currently have is a 100gr weight, but I'm going to order a set today when I order a collet bullet puller to pull the remaining 300+ bullets. I will start using them every time I charge cases, there's no excuse not to.
6. Look at each case after I charge the tray of 50, and again before I actually seat the bullet. It won't add much time, and could save my bacon. Kind of like the measure twice, cut once principle.

I appreciate any and all ideas and input about this situation
 
get a hand-held flashlight and look into each case in that loading block (my method). i use rechargeable batteries and have the charger at the loading bench.

this step in my reloading process is the most important; no powder causes squibs, double powder causes kaboom. no other step in the process comes close to causing this great a problem.

anyway, i don't think "general" lighting cuts it here.

luck,

murf
 
FWIW, I think if the bullet was so shallow into the barrel that it prevented the next round from chambering, a mere "light load" of powder probably isn't the culprit. A no-charge seems most likely, or such a severe undercharge as to basically function as a no-charge. I could be wrong, of course, but this is how it seems to me.
 
What you ought to do is to load up progressively lighter charges and FEEL the progression from a normal shot to a weak shot to a FTE to a squib. Believe me, that experience is invaluable in recognizing when to stop your shooting and prevent a kaboom. Just like practicing changing a tire in your driveway instead of learning on the side of the road in the rain at night, you should learn how to drive a stuck bullet out of your gun in a controlled situation rather than learning at the range or by yourself in the field for the first time.

Driving a stuck bullet out is not much more difficult than slugging your barrel if you cast bullets so it's not like it's something magical. After you've stuck a bullet a few times you'll know what it feels like, you know what to do and you'll know not to panic.

Prevention is of course, the best approach. When I single stage load, I take a primed case, drop the powder, check the powder level and seat a bullet in one step. That way I know that each charged case has only one charge, the level is enough to shoot the bullet and the bullet is seated. No charged cases without a bullet seated in the loading block.

Glad everything turned out OK for you.
 
First and foremost, no damage was done to me, or my Glock 19. Both are completely ok, just VERY thankful. This may be a bit of a long read, but I'd like to describe my loading process, what happened leading up to the squib, ask about a few things, and offer some ideas about how I should change my processes.

In the past, I have always loaded 115gr LRN for my 9mm, but recently came into a good deal on some 124gr LRN, so I figured I'd give them a try. I didn't have load data for 124gr lead with the powder I wanted to use (700-X), so, I used data for 125gr lead. Starting low and working up. The load range for that weight of bullet using 700-X is 2.9-3.4 grains (per pg. 510 of Lee #2). I found that 2.9 wouldn't reliably cycle my pistol, but 3.0 did. I ran about 200 rounds of 3.0gr seated to 1.125" through my G19 no issues. My idea was to find a load that would reliably cycle my pistol, nothing more. Figured it'd be a soft shooting round, and would save me powder (I'll address this later).

First, my loading process. I load on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker using Lee Carbide Dies. I sort, tumble, size/decap, expand, prime, charge, seat, then apply a light crimp. Pretty standard stuff. When I am charging, I first verify that my scale (a 5-0-5) is zeroed. I dial in my Uniflow for my charge, re-verify the zero on my scale, then also re-verify the charge being thrown one more time for good measure (I didn't verify with a check weight, more on that later as well). I'll throw the confirmed charge into the 10th case in the row I am charging, then charge the other 9. I'll throw a charge to weigh, make any adjustments to the Uniflow as needed, then repeat the process. Once I charge a whole loading block of 50, I'll look at each case and verify that it is charged. After that, I move on to seating, etc.

Using that loading method, I loaded up 400 rounds of this ammo for a class I took yesterday. It was just a basic defensive pistol class. Everything started out good, it fed, fired, extracted, etc just fine. Then we started doing some one handed drills, and I was reliably getting a failure to feed (slide would close and chamber the round when I'd remove the mag) when I was doing one handed shooting with my weak hand. I chalked it up to limp wristing, since I'm pretty useless with my right hand. I didn't think of it at the time, but I'd never had that problem before. The squib happened on the next drill. We were back to two handed shooting and I had another fail to feed. I did remedial action (tap/rack etc) and nothing would work. We called a cease fire and tore the pistol apart, and sure enough, a bullet was lodged in my barrel. Thankfully it didn't go far enough down to let the next round chamber, or I would have been hurting. We knocked it out with a cleaning rod and hammer, looked the barrel and gun over, then got back to work. A student was nice enough to let me use his TulAmmo for the remainder of the class.

Cause of the Squib
1. What I think is most likely is that I somehow missed an uncharged case, despite looking at every case prior to seating. My guess is I zoned out a little, need to improve lighting at my bench, or both (probably the first option honestly). What leads me to think that this is the most likely cause is the fact that the bullet didn't go far enough down the barrel to let me chamber the next round.
2. Severely undercharged case. 700-X doesn't meter the best, so maybe instead of getting the 3.0gr I was expecting, I got something substantially less. I've never really had a problem with that in the past, but since I was so close to minimum charge anyway, maybe that had an effect.
3. Temperature combined with an undercharged case. This is a long shot, but I'd still like some input on this. I am unsure how temperature sensitive 700-X is as well. The temperature was at, or a bit below freezing for much of the morning. Could the temperature combined with a light charge cause this? My ammo was stored in my apartment the night before the class, so it was only exposed to the cold for as long as I was, maybe 2 hours tops before the squib.
4. Scale wasn't calibrated correctly. As mentioned earlier, I didn't use a check weight to verify that it was correct, just zeroed it and went about my business.

Takeaways/Changes to my Reloading Process
1. Immediate takeaway is that I'm incredibly lucky I didn't have a gun blow up in my face. I'm already ugly enough, so I don't wanna add to it. Let alone pay doctor bills and have to replace a gun
2. I need to be COMPLETELY focused when doing this. Like I said before, I think I missed an uncharged case, and there is no excuse for that whatsoever.
3. Should add lighting around my bench. The lighting isn't great, so I either need to add lighting, or shine a flashlight in the cases when I look at them
4. Load used needs to be altered. I focused too much on soft shooting and powder savings. When I first started reloading, I purposely picked 3.5gr 700-X with 115gr LRN because it is literally in the middle of the load range. It gives lots of room for error in terms of variation when powder is being thrown. I will start throwing 3.1gr or 3.2gr with this bullet immediately.
5. Check weight usage. I admittedly didn't verify my scale with a check weight prior to doing this, and I'm an idiot for it. All I currently have is a 100gr weight, but I'm going to order a set today when I order a collet bullet puller to pull the remaining 300+ bullets. I will start using them every time I charge cases, there's no excuse not to.
6. Look at each case after I charge the tray of 50, and again before I actually seat the bullet. It won't add much time, and could save my bacon. Kind of like the measure twice, cut once principle.

I appreciate any and all ideas and input about this situation

"Once I charge a whole loading block of 50, I'll look at each case and verify that it is charged. After that, I move on to seating, etc."
# 6. didn't work for you before, why use it again? Charge and then immediately seat each round.
As for Cause #2, this is why I hand throw charges. I got a powder measure with my press; I gave it away. So many powders don't meter well, why chance it? I'm not out to make 100 rounds an hour, I want quality, consistancy, and accuracy.
Cause #3, highly unlikely.
Cause #4, possible, but 505's are pretty dependable, it's what I've used most of the many years I've reloaded.

get a hand-held flashlight and look into each case in that loading block (my method). i use rechargeable batteries and have the charger at the loading bench.

Did that for many years; I have 4' flourescent right over my bench now, and still keep that flashlight handy.


This is why I load one at a time; I take the cases that have been prepped, throw the charge by hand, (I use Lee dippers and use the one below the charge I seek, then hand 'shake' (trickle) it in with the smallest dipper, then immediately place the bullet on top) , insert it into the press, and seat it. I have never had a resultant squib in almost 40 years of loading. I did get one at the range firing someone else's reload, when I broke another of my rules. had a wadcutter lodge in the barrel of my snub. Not fun to remove.
 
When the squib happened, did the squib cycle the action and fail to feed the next round, or did the failure to feed happen during a tap and rack? Just like a colonoscopy, I know I'll eventually have to deal with one, so I'm always curious.

A couple of months ago during IDPA, a shooter experienced a squib. No one noticed it was a squib, and he was desperately attempting to get another round chambered to move on. His was like yours and thankfully would not go into battery either.

I use a Lee turret with an auto drum powder measure. I removed the disconnect from it because I decided that the risk of an uncharged case was greater than a double charge. On my 9mm loads, HP38 fills the case about halfway, and it's easy to get a visual. A double charge of HP38 almost spills out the top. I would have to be half asleep to miss a double charge. I have decent lighting, but I think I'll look for some kind of battery powered LED clamp light for my press.
 
Ipsharp -

My technique is similar to yours, even similar equipment. A couple of things help me to control possible squibs:

1. I wet tumble my brass, so it is highly shiny. This comes into play when the cases are charged with powder and put into the loading blocks. Like you, I also use a bright flashlight to check each case for being either empty, undercharged or overcharged. The shiny brass instantly tells you when the case is empty: the bottom of the empty case will shine like a beacon when the flashlight hits it.

2. I also use 700-X and a Uniflow dispenser. Here's what I've recently learned about this combination: We all know that 700-X is not the best for metering. However, I bought my Uniflow in the 70's. It came with a large volume cylinder (100 grains) and a small volume cylinder (50 grains). When I set up the Uniflow 40 years ago, I simply installed the large cylinder. I read on some posts that folks were getting more consistent throws with flake powders like 700X and Unique using the smaller cylinder. Since I had the smaller cylinder, I cut the 40 year old unopened bag containing it, and installed it.

And what a difference it makes. The smaller cylinder definitely throws charges of 700-X much more consistently than the larger cylinder. I typically load between 4-5 grains for my various calibers. The small cylinder throws 700-X to a degree of consistency that I no longer weigh each charge like I was doing before with the large cylinder. I always load less than max so a 1/10th grain variance is of no consequence to me in my pistol rounds (38 SPL and 45 ACP).

Not having to weigh and trickle each charge has dramatically increased my productivity and cut my charging time - at least by a factor of 3.

Just some suggestions.........

Bayou52
 
get a hand-held flashlight and look into each case in that loading block (my method). i use rechargeable batteries and have the charger at the loading bench.

this step in my reloading process is the most important; no powder causes squibs, double powder causes kaboom. no other step in the process comes close to causing this great a problem.

anyway, i don't think "general" lighting cuts it here.

luck,

murf
I agree completely on both parts. The bullet didn't get that far into the barrel, so I really do think that it was a non charged case. I also have already put a spare Surefire on my bench for use.
Prevention is of course, the best approach. When I single stage load, I take a primed case, drop the powder, check the powder level and seat a bullet in one step. That way I know that each charged case has only one charge, the level is enough to shoot the bullet and the bullet is seated. No charged cases without a bullet seated in the loading block.

Glad everything turned out OK for you.
Thanks for the kind words. What's funny is that I recently did that when I was doing some loading for my Garand. I really do think that it is a good idea to institute across the board
This is why I load one at a time; I take the cases that have been prepped, throw the charge by hand, (I use Lee dippers and use the one below the charge I seek, then hand 'shake' (trickle) it in with the smallest dipper, then immediately place the bullet on top) , insert it into the press, and seat it. I have never had a resultant squib in almost 40 years of loading. I did get one at the range firing someone else's reload, when I broke another of my rules. had a wadcutter lodge in the barrel of my snub. Not fun to remove.
Thankfully this bullet wasn't hard to remove with a cleaning rod and hammer. It really does seem like charging and seating at the same time is a better practice, less room for error.
When the squib happened, did the squib cycle the action and fail to feed the next round, or did the failure to feed happen during a tap and rack? Just like a colonoscopy, I know I'll eventually have to deal with one, so I'm always curious.

A couple of months ago during IDPA, a shooter experienced a squib. No one noticed it was a squib, and he was desperately attempting to get another round chambered to move on. His was like yours and thankfully would not go into battery either.

I use a Lee turret with an auto drum powder measure. I removed the disconnect from it because I decided that the risk of an uncharged case was greater than a double charge. On my 9mm loads, HP38 fills the case about halfway, and it's easy to get a visual. A double charge of HP38 almost spills out the top. I would have to be half asleep to miss a double charge. I have decent lighting, but I think I'll look for some kind of battery powered LED clamp light for my press.
When the squib happened, the action cycled and attempted to chamber the other round. What really shook me (other than the potential grenade in my hands) was the fact that I really couldn't tell that it didn't feel right when I fired that round. I always thought that I'd be able to tell when something like that happened. I have zero doubt that if I would have been able to chamber the next round that I would have had a gun blow up in my face. One of the things I like best about 700-X is the density. A double charge is VERY obvious, but clearly a no charge slipped by.
Ipsharp -

My technique is similar to yours, even similar equipment. A couple of things help me to control possible squibs:

1. I wet tumble my brass, so it is highly shiny. This comes into play when the cases are charged with powder and put into the loading blocks. Like you, I also use a bright flashlight to check each case for being either empty, undercharged or overcharged. The shiny brass instantly tells you when the case is empty: the bottom of the empty case will shine like a beacon when the flashlight hits it.

2. I also use 700-X and a Uniflow dispenser. Here's what I've recently learned about this combination: We all know that 700-X is not the best for metering. However, I bought my Uniflow in the 70's. It came with a large volume cylinder (100 grains) and a small volume cylinder (50 grains). When I set up the Uniflow 40 years ago, I simply installed the large cylinder. I read on some posts that folks were getting more consistent throws with flake powders like 700X and Unique using the smaller cylinder. Since I had the smaller cylinder, I cut the 40 year old unopened bag containing it, and installed it.

And what a difference it makes. The smaller cylinder definitely throws charges of 700-X much more consistently than the larger cylinder. I typically load between 4-5 grains for my various calibers. The small cylinder throws 700-X to a degree of consistency that I no longer weigh each charge like I was doing before with the large cylinder. I always load less than max so a 1/10th grain variance is of no consequence to me in my pistol rounds (38 SPL and 45 ACP).

Not having to weigh and trickle each charge has dramatically increased my productivity and cut my charging time - at least by a factor of 3.

Just some suggestions.........

Bayou52
I noticed the difference between the large and small cylinders as well, and never actually ever loaded a round using the large one. My kit didn't come with a small one, I had to get one on my own. At least 90% of my loading is pistol ammo with a charge of under 10gr, so I've never used the large one. Wet tumbling is something I'll also think about. My vibratory tumbler using crushed walnut does a good job, but the inside of the cases are sometimes still a little sooty, so powder kinda blends in. I think a flashlight check will more than work in the mean time though. Also, like I mentioned earlier, altering the charge weight for that weight of bullet will help as well, I think. I was using a charge that was barely enough to cycle the action and give me slide lock on an empty mag. By upping the charge to middle of the road (literally) it will give me a lot more cushion. That is good considering the powder I am using.
 
Interestingly In ABCs of reloading Rodney James describes a double charge accident caused by NOT using a loading block. The reloaded charged the case, was interrupted by a knock on the door or something similar, got back to,the bench, added another charge and seated the bullet. IIRC

I do not use one. As others have said, I charge the case with powder and immediately seat the bullet.
 
The squib cycled the action?!!!!

That is the scenario that scares me the most. I've never had a squib. But like most all of us I'm petrified of them.

If in a rapid fire sequence I've hoped the primer alone would be insufficient to cycle the action. Your story shows otherwise....which is concerning.

I wonder if any others feel the same: In my case I feel LESS safe seating immediately upon charging. My brain is such that if I have too many steps in a process it is easy for me to overlook something. So I fear I'd pick up a case and seat.....forgetting to charge.

+1 re how clean inside the case (wet tumbling) makes checking for charges much easier.

Also, I've found, if I'm not careful, my eyes see what they expect to see. When checking a block of charged cases I look at each case and say "yes" mentally and confirm I'm seeing what I think I am.

Thanks for the report I find them INCREDIBLY valuable
 
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The squib cycled the action?!!!!

That is the scenario that scares me the most. I've never had a squib. But like most all of us I'm petrified of them.

If in a rapid fire sequence I've hoped the primer alone would be insufficient to cycle the action. Your story shows otherwise....which is concerning.

I wonder if any others feel the same: In my case I feel LESS safe seating immediately upon charging. My brain is such that if I have too many steps in a process it is easy for me to overlook something. So I fear I'd pick up a case and seat.....forgetting to charge.

+1 re how clean inside the case (wet tumbling) makes checking for charges much easier.

Also, I've found my eyes see what they expect to see when checking a block of charged cases I look at each case and say "yes" mentally and confirm I'm seeing what I think I am.

Thanks for the report I find them INCREDIBLY valuable
It did, the best way to explain it is that it looked like a slightly deeper double feed. A normal double feed you can see the entire "second" round sitting behind the already chambered first round. In this instance, the projectile of the second round was in the chamber a little bit, but still sitting fully horizontal in the gun. The more I think about it, I think that the fact that the action completely cycled is why I didn't notice the squib.
 
Maybe try a load with no powder to see if it cycles the action. Worst case would be having to drive another bullet out of the barrel with a rod.
 
I am led to believe that a cleaning rod is not the best tool for removing a squib. A piece of brass bar stock from the hardware is better and cheaper; and hope you never have to use it.
 
I am led to believe that a cleaning rod is not the best tool for removing a squib. A piece of brass bar stock from the hardware is better and cheaper; and hope you never have to use it.
It may not be the best option, but it was the most field expedient option considering the time and place this occurred
 
I hate that tap, rack, & bang is taught. I've had a few failures over the years. None except the intended ones do I remember causing myself. I know by sound & fell that something isn't right. I know before thinking what action needs to be taken.

If I load on a SS I flip a primed case primer up to check for primer seating. So if a case is upside down we know it doesn't have powder in it. Batch load where I'm using a measure I look into all the cases & select a few random to weigh. If I'm weighing each one put a bullet on top as soon as I drop the charge. If I get detracted & there is a case upright I turn it primer up before starting.
 
I must say these threads are generally posted by progressive users but it doesn't matter what you are loading on you need confirmation of powder charge.

If your going to let them slip by a visual inspection when they are all lined up, open and easy to see, it maybe time for a progressive press with a powder check.
 
I have two powder-charging methods that I'm confident in. Never had a squib in 45 years of handloading.
1. Charge cases using a loading block: I do not hold the loading block with cases under the powder measure & move it around, charging cases (as I've seen). I have the empty cases on the left side of the press. I pick up each case, glance at the inside, hold it right up against the drop tube, charge it & drop it into the loading block. (It's faster than it sounds.) When they're all charged, I check the cases with a flashlight. Just before seating bullets, I glance at the case again (it's the last opportunity to verify powder charge).

2. No loading block: Cases are rim up on the left side of the press, ammo box is on the right. I charge each case, glance at the powder & immediately seat & crimp.

I only use powders that fill at least half the case, so double charges would be easily spotted. After using the same load, I remember what the powder level should look like. Example: I load lots of 9mm with AA#5. I know that a normal load fills almost half the case, so when I glance at it, I know it's right. For plinking loads in 44 Mag, I know that Trail Boss fills 3/4 of the case.
 
FWIW, I think if the bullet was so shallow into the barrel that it prevented the next round from chambering, a mere "light load" of powder probably isn't the culprit. A no-charge seems most likely, or such a severe undercharge as to basically function as a no-charge. I could be wrong, of course, but this is how it seems to me.

I concur ( agree)
 
No, it can splinter and wedge the bullet making it harder to get out. Best is a solid brass rod. I've carried a squib rod in my range bag for decades. I've used it several time on others squib loads, their guns. I've only had 1 squib in 40 + years and it was when I first moved to a AP. After that I learned if I have a problem it's easier to just clear all stations when I have a problem, and deal with them at the end.
 
If you're using the brass rod on the nose end of the bullet......and it's a round nose....how do you keep the rod from slipping off the crown and wedging against the barrel? I'm obviously thinking cleaning rod maybe I need to think of having a bigger diameter rod
 
Don't use a cleaning rod. You'll only damage the rod. They are pretty easy to drive out most of the time. Soft lead is cake.
 
Ok......rod from Home Depot? I heard someone once suggest a rod from a toilet repair kit. But that seems the same as a cleaning rod.
 
I don't know how many 1/4" bronze brazing rods I have cut up as squib rods and passed out at matches over the years but it's been a lot.

They always seemed to work fine. I also had a bunch of drops of 3/8" brass very heavy wall tubing (could thread the center bore 10-32) worked fine for 45 ACP guys.
 
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